Lost in TGB
by gigaslime · in General Discussion · 11/29/2007 (4:13 pm) · 10 replies
I was using GameMaker and felt a limit to it, so im trying to learn TGB.
Currently im using a trail version of TGB 1.5. Thinking of getting a license after i feel confident in it, but im totally lost right now. I programmed in C++ a lot and understanding TorqueScripting was not a huge problem. But the problem was that i don't know what to do next to learn more about the basic concept of TGB. I finished the Fish Game Tutorial (wanting to do Shooter Tutorial but somehow the images and Demo File is not included, so i couldn't do it) and wanting to work on more. But what I found in the TDN was more of advanced tutorials or a specific tutorials of How to make "these genre" games, which is kind of hard for me because i wanted to learn about TGB itself more than making all kind of games.
I'm new to Game Engine so probably that is the huge reason why im lost, but i don't know how to move on to the next stage. It feels like i can't put several levels or title page, which is not true since everyone is doing it....
I need a guideline of what i should do to know about TGB, and how to create an actual complete game. It will help me so much if you could tell me what you did to make your own game. For example, "did this tutorial" or "learn this first before TGB".
I'm totally lost and any hints or advice will help!!
Currently im using a trail version of TGB 1.5. Thinking of getting a license after i feel confident in it, but im totally lost right now. I programmed in C++ a lot and understanding TorqueScripting was not a huge problem. But the problem was that i don't know what to do next to learn more about the basic concept of TGB. I finished the Fish Game Tutorial (wanting to do Shooter Tutorial but somehow the images and Demo File is not included, so i couldn't do it) and wanting to work on more. But what I found in the TDN was more of advanced tutorials or a specific tutorials of How to make "these genre" games, which is kind of hard for me because i wanted to learn about TGB itself more than making all kind of games.
I'm new to Game Engine so probably that is the huge reason why im lost, but i don't know how to move on to the next stage. It feels like i can't put several levels or title page, which is not true since everyone is doing it....
I need a guideline of what i should do to know about TGB, and how to create an actual complete game. It will help me so much if you could tell me what you did to make your own game. For example, "did this tutorial" or "learn this first before TGB".
I'm totally lost and any hints or advice will help!!
About the author
#2
When you started C++, you didn't start with large, practical applications, you have to work up to that. Sometimes to learn new concepts, you may have done things that were less than useful to most people, but were great learning tools. I've been helping a few others with some project management stuff, if you're interested in that approach IM me. Mostly, you should think about what you'd like to make in Torque and break it down into conceptual components to see if you could create the required items. One shouldn't feel obligated to make full-fledged games right away, a little toying around and prototyping might help you think of something you'd like to expand.
11/29/2007 (8:21 pm)
You're at a point where copying the work of others will be of limited use. Consider doing some smaller technical projects which relate to a game project you wish to make. For example, if you're to do a puzzle game, learning about the mouse and doing some basic game logic in TS would be a good next step. If you wanted to do a network game, do some network exercises.When you started C++, you didn't start with large, practical applications, you have to work up to that. Sometimes to learn new concepts, you may have done things that were less than useful to most people, but were great learning tools. I've been helping a few others with some project management stuff, if you're interested in that approach IM me. Mostly, you should think about what you'd like to make in Torque and break it down into conceptual components to see if you could create the required items. One shouldn't feel obligated to make full-fledged games right away, a little toying around and prototyping might help you think of something you'd like to expand.
#3
Vashner,
thanx, what is the difference between the demo and the license? do you know what is the limit in the demo?
Jason Ravencroft,
that is very true,, thank you for the advice!! It really made me feel better not felt like I'm lost.
But I still have one basic question though... How do you make several levels and like a title page?
11/30/2007 (12:49 am)
Thank you guys! that helps a lot. Vashner,
thanx, what is the difference between the demo and the license? do you know what is the limit in the demo?
Jason Ravencroft,
that is very true,, thank you for the advice!! It really made me feel better not felt like I'm lost.
But I still have one basic question though... How do you make several levels and like a title page?
#4
If you are looking for a product that leads you through the game development process, I can stop you now and let you know that TGB, or any other GarageGames product isn't for you. As much of a fan all of us licensees are of GarageGames, documentation has been, and probably always will be, severely lacking.
Most robust engines won't be easy; features = complexity. If you are looking for an engine that won't quickly technically limit you, then this might be a good place to look. Just know that learning the engine isn't just learning how to do a global concept like "how do I make a title page", but more so "how do I capture the mouse-click on my 'Start Game' object?". Granted; the new behavior system is supposed to continue the process of separating the technology from the designer, it's far from being complete, so you will still have to get your hands dirty with the TGB engine.
11/30/2007 (2:31 am)
The knowledge, to some extent, is here, most of it is however in the private licensee-only locations. If you are looking for a product that leads you through the game development process, I can stop you now and let you know that TGB, or any other GarageGames product isn't for you. As much of a fan all of us licensees are of GarageGames, documentation has been, and probably always will be, severely lacking.
Most robust engines won't be easy; features = complexity. If you are looking for an engine that won't quickly technically limit you, then this might be a good place to look. Just know that learning the engine isn't just learning how to do a global concept like "how do I make a title page", but more so "how do I capture the mouse-click on my 'Start Game' object?". Granted; the new behavior system is supposed to continue the process of separating the technology from the designer, it's far from being complete, so you will still have to get your hands dirty with the TGB engine.
#5
That comment brought me back to the reality. I was noticing that TGB doesn't have a step-by-step "how-to" tutorials. But I really want to try to understand TGB and willing to work hard for it. I'm still confused in one place though. "Get your hands dirty with the TGB engine", those that mean that i have to figure how TGB works by myself? By checking how TS function works, and looking at sample codes? If that's the case, im really afraid when there is going to be a time that i want to do something, but i have no idea.
Now i want to know is how everyone became familiar with TGB. I notice that it is going to be a really hard task, but I want to be one of the fans of GarageGames like you guys are. I'm working on a different tutorial right now, but still afraid that even in the close future, i will still not be confident in it. I just need a reference of how everyone mastered TGB.
Thank you again, i'm really glad that everyone here is willing to help.
11/30/2007 (3:12 am)
Thank you Brian Wilson, That comment brought me back to the reality. I was noticing that TGB doesn't have a step-by-step "how-to" tutorials. But I really want to try to understand TGB and willing to work hard for it. I'm still confused in one place though. "Get your hands dirty with the TGB engine", those that mean that i have to figure how TGB works by myself? By checking how TS function works, and looking at sample codes? If that's the case, im really afraid when there is going to be a time that i want to do something, but i have no idea.
Now i want to know is how everyone became familiar with TGB. I notice that it is going to be a really hard task, but I want to be one of the fans of GarageGames like you guys are. I'm working on a different tutorial right now, but still afraid that even in the close future, i will still not be confident in it. I just need a reference of how everyone mastered TGB.
Thank you again, i'm really glad that everyone here is willing to help.
#6
One thing you should do ASAP is stop relying on the editor as much as possible. You don't actually need it to make levels, but it's very handy for tilemaps and seeing how things will look, so you can visually tweak hand-made levels. Earlier this week, I was able to largely ween a friend from the editor and taught proper use of datablocks and it's going to save him a ton of time and he's learned more about how Torque works. What's nice though is that the datablocks can be used from the editor so when I did make a tile-based map I was able to use the datablock drop-down for an item to have it go to the exact image, collision poly, layer, and sort point that I needed. There's no need to completely forgo the editor, but it's better to under-use it than over-use it.
If you're interested in loading levels, you'll need to read up on level loading and how TorqueScript handles file paths. For some reason, file paths confuse a lot of people, but it's a key part of loading levels. One exercise you may want to try is making several levels and loading them in sequence, maybe using a mouse click or something simple just to understand it. If I remember, I'll make a simple tutorial on loading a level after dinner, just something that loads level 1 and then level 2. For a title screen, there are a few ways to do this, but it would depend on what you want that title screen to do. If it's just to show for a few seconds, you could have it load an imagemap then remove it and start your game by loading whichever level you like. Maybe you'd like a GUI-based startup, it's really up to you. Honestly, though I wouldn't worry about splash screens at this point, but making a little title screen with buttons to start the game might be a good idea to learn how to move from one point in your program to the next.
Other simple things you can try might be learning about collisions if you're game will need it, the GUI can keep you busy for a while, effective use of imagemaps is an under-appreciated skill. To boil this down to its essence, you don't so much learn an engine in a holistic sense as you learn certain aspects of it separately and then learn to integrate them well into a complete project. This has been my major issue with the tutorials provided, they are just too overwhelming and move too quickly from one topic to the next so that the mini-games can be completed in a reasonable amount of time.
Honestly, much of this is much easier to explain in a synchronous medium.
11/30/2007 (7:48 am)
Practice, sometimes on the weekends I sit down a little rush job to see what I can do in 4 hours. Quite probably the most important thing you can do is try to understand the design philosophy of Torque. Most knowledge of scripting in TGE and TGB is interchangeable, other than some obvious differences such as moving into 3d space. Try to really understand Torque classes and datablocks, sometimes I feel like I'm writing something in Bash since TorqueScript is too forgiving, but it's more powerful than many people seem to think (price snobbery, mostly). One thing you should do ASAP is stop relying on the editor as much as possible. You don't actually need it to make levels, but it's very handy for tilemaps and seeing how things will look, so you can visually tweak hand-made levels. Earlier this week, I was able to largely ween a friend from the editor and taught proper use of datablocks and it's going to save him a ton of time and he's learned more about how Torque works. What's nice though is that the datablocks can be used from the editor so when I did make a tile-based map I was able to use the datablock drop-down for an item to have it go to the exact image, collision poly, layer, and sort point that I needed. There's no need to completely forgo the editor, but it's better to under-use it than over-use it.
If you're interested in loading levels, you'll need to read up on level loading and how TorqueScript handles file paths. For some reason, file paths confuse a lot of people, but it's a key part of loading levels. One exercise you may want to try is making several levels and loading them in sequence, maybe using a mouse click or something simple just to understand it. If I remember, I'll make a simple tutorial on loading a level after dinner, just something that loads level 1 and then level 2. For a title screen, there are a few ways to do this, but it would depend on what you want that title screen to do. If it's just to show for a few seconds, you could have it load an imagemap then remove it and start your game by loading whichever level you like. Maybe you'd like a GUI-based startup, it's really up to you. Honestly, though I wouldn't worry about splash screens at this point, but making a little title screen with buttons to start the game might be a good idea to learn how to move from one point in your program to the next.
Other simple things you can try might be learning about collisions if you're game will need it, the GUI can keep you busy for a while, effective use of imagemaps is an under-appreciated skill. To boil this down to its essence, you don't so much learn an engine in a holistic sense as you learn certain aspects of it separately and then learn to integrate them well into a complete project. This has been my major issue with the tutorials provided, they are just too overwhelming and move too quickly from one topic to the next so that the mini-games can be completed in a reasonable amount of time.
Honestly, much of this is much easier to explain in a synchronous medium.
#7
11/30/2007 (2:23 pm)
Hi, I was in the exact same position as you six month ago. I wanted to learn quickly, but was a little bit confused due to the complexity of the engine. I started out with the fish demo, just like you, which gave me some basic understanding. Then I moved on and actually made my first game, called Sky Combat. Its a 2d scrolling shooter, very similar to the shooter tutorial (the shooter tutorial was included as a demo in the earlier version of TGB). Even though I extensivly used the shooter tutorial to make my game, I never copied and pasted the code. Its very important for the learning to write the code yourself. If you do that you will learn very quickly. I would say that the shooter tutorial was the most important learning source for me, so go and check out that tutorial, its very good. When I finished Sky Combat I had enough knowledge to create a game from scratch. I am now working on a game called Moonlander. Its in a very early stage of the developement but Its released and constantly updated. Go and check it out at www.sobkowiak.se . If you want some help dont hesitate to email me, and I will try to help you if I can.
#8
Thank you very very much!! That was the answer i was waiting for, even though i don't understand one fifth of the thing you said. But it will be my great reference and will be my guideline of what i should do next. Hope after a few weeks, I will totally understand what you said and next when i have a question, it will be much more specific and technical. Again, thanks a lot!!!
Adam Sobkowiak,
I looked at you site but i guess it didn't work for mac. I will try it with my friend's computer so that i could see what can you do and will definitely be one of my reference too. Shooter tutorial... i'll do that as soon as possible. I hope soon i'll be able to make a game like you guys do. Thank you so much for your concern of helping me. I'm pretty sure that i'll be confused again and probably going to email you.
I'm very glad that i asked in this forum. Before i was totally lost and was frustrated with TGB. But now i feel so much better by knowing a lot of people that actually mastered it, and teached, hinted, adviced me all kind of things that i could start learning about. I am also glad that everyone here thinks Torque as a strongest engine. Which makes me feel better, since if i try hard enough to know Torque, i know that i'll me happy about it. Again, thankyou so much for your help you guys!!
12/01/2007 (1:24 am)
Jason Ravencroft,Thank you very very much!! That was the answer i was waiting for, even though i don't understand one fifth of the thing you said. But it will be my great reference and will be my guideline of what i should do next. Hope after a few weeks, I will totally understand what you said and next when i have a question, it will be much more specific and technical. Again, thanks a lot!!!
Adam Sobkowiak,
I looked at you site but i guess it didn't work for mac. I will try it with my friend's computer so that i could see what can you do and will definitely be one of my reference too. Shooter tutorial... i'll do that as soon as possible. I hope soon i'll be able to make a game like you guys do. Thank you so much for your concern of helping me. I'm pretty sure that i'll be confused again and probably going to email you.
I'm very glad that i asked in this forum. Before i was totally lost and was frustrated with TGB. But now i feel so much better by knowing a lot of people that actually mastered it, and teached, hinted, adviced me all kind of things that i could start learning about. I am also glad that everyone here thinks Torque as a strongest engine. Which makes me feel better, since if i try hard enough to know Torque, i know that i'll me happy about it. Again, thankyou so much for your help you guys!!
#9
12/01/2007 (6:55 am)
If you're on a Mac, I'm not sure how well things will work since I don't have access to one. Still, I'll get those scripts going for you, it'll only take a few minutes. If it works, great. 
#10
@Alexis: We get a lot of people with differing levels of experience on the forums. If you have any specific feedback on what's working for you and what isn't, let me know. It would help GarageGames out as we design our products. E-mail me: deborahm (at) garagegames.com
12/03/2007 (12:36 pm)
All advice given on this thread is great!@Alexis: We get a lot of people with differing levels of experience on the forums. If you have any specific feedback on what's working for you and what isn't, let me know. It would help GarageGames out as we design our products. E-mail me: deborahm (at) garagegames.com
Torque Owner Vashner
The demo is just to give a taste. Buy the license if you want the full meal.