Trees and Stuff
by Robert · in Technical Issues · 05/20/2001 (9:06 pm) · 13 replies
Just wondering how people feel about trees and other objects (like smoke) with regard to true3D vs billboards and other perceived 3D effects. I realise this is an age old debate but has anyone got any new perspectives or examples of each from published games (links would be nice :))?
I personally don't like billboards in games but I can't say that I've seen any really good examples of true 3D trees in games. From a programming point of view I prefer to work with true 3D, especially with regard to collision detection and LOS for NPCs. Does anyone have any ideas for making 3D trees look better or new ways of using billboards to make them less offensive?
I personally don't like billboards in games but I can't say that I've seen any really good examples of true 3D trees in games. From a programming point of view I prefer to work with true 3D, especially with regard to collision detection and LOS for NPCs. Does anyone have any ideas for making 3D trees look better or new ways of using billboards to make them less offensive?
About the author
#2
Click here to see.
05/21/2001 (4:16 am)
3DPipline has really cool billboard trees that use an animated texture technique to create the illusion of complexity and depth. Very impressive.Click here to see.
#3
By sticking a texture on each side of an X, do you mean like rogue spear. At the time that was released I thought that was OK but its been years now, I was hoping for something more.
TreeFX looks pretty good, I might look into it more. Has anyone out there used it or know of a game it has/is being used in?
05/21/2001 (6:02 pm)
Thanks for you posts guys.By sticking a texture on each side of an X, do you mean like rogue spear. At the time that was released I thought that was OK but its been years now, I was hoping for something more.
TreeFX looks pretty good, I might look into it more. Has anyone out there used it or know of a game it has/is being used in?
#4
--Rick
05/22/2001 (9:15 am)
I have seen the 3DPipeline stuff before. I just requested a unlock key for their demo and will take a closer look at it. But they are NOT billboards.Quote:
From 3DPipeline website
Using a proprietary technique, TreeFX minimizes CPU cost, yet produces full 3D trees that replace the old technique of billboarding. What results are lifelike trees with branches that appear to brush aside as you pass by.
--Rick
#5
What they do is create a tree using a modeling package and then render mulitple images from different angles. These images are then "merged" together into a planar map of sorts (kind of like a Mercator projection, or some of the QuickTime virtual tour of buildings stuff) for the billboard's texture. As you change you viewpoint around the the polygon, a different part of the map is shown - think of the billboard as a "window" that lets you look at a different part of the texture. The projection isn't distortion free (hence the "brushing back" of tree branches), and you will see this when you get close to a tree (like at ground level) and pass by.
I haven't had time to build my own demo - I have been thinking of using this technique to render planets in a space sim.
---edit---
To see wireframe you have to hold down the "w" key
---another edit---
Multiple image files, apparently they are keyframing through the images
05/22/2001 (10:28 am)
Yeah they are (and when you get the unlock you will see when you look at the wire frames). I met with them at the GDC. It is really a neat technique that they wouldn't exactly confirm.What they do is create a tree using a modeling package and then render mulitple images from different angles. These images are then "merged" together into a planar map of sorts (kind of like a Mercator projection, or some of the QuickTime virtual tour of buildings stuff) for the billboard's texture. As you change you viewpoint around the the polygon, a different part of the map is shown - think of the billboard as a "window" that lets you look at a different part of the texture. The projection isn't distortion free (hence the "brushing back" of tree branches), and you will see this when you get close to a tree (like at ground level) and pass by.
I haven't had time to build my own demo - I have been thinking of using this technique to render planets in a space sim.
---edit---
To see wireframe you have to hold down the "w" key
---another edit---
Multiple image files, apparently they are keyframing through the images
#6
05/22/2001 (1:04 pm)
ack, I can't get it to run, keep reporting invalid Target Depth bit (tried both 16bit and 32 bit, no go)
#7
I want to know if the "real Time" library will have options like: Sparse vegetation; over grown woods; dense forest that will allow for an easy option- or a randomly generated set of trees and params from a random seed. (no pun intended). I think that would make for faster generation if you can predefine the options.
06/21/2001 (11:06 pm)
Billboard or not, those trees look very good to me- I particularly like the forest that they put together in the video.I want to know if the "real Time" library will have options like: Sparse vegetation; over grown woods; dense forest that will allow for an easy option- or a randomly generated set of trees and params from a random seed. (no pun intended). I think that would make for faster generation if you can predefine the options.
#8
06/23/2001 (1:06 pm)
Actually, there is a much betterpsuedo 3D tree program, and it does people, trees, plants, foutains, etc, and you can make your own really easily. it is called RPC. (www.rpcnet.com) The objects look much better since they are actually real trees. Also, since they load up a pic, there is almost no render time since it is only a single face poly. The down side however, is that they are still sprites, so if you go above or below them, their 2d nature is apparent.
#9
07/13/2001 (1:51 am)
god thats what is one of the things that pisses the hell outta me with games, trees that are 2d...even if they are pictures of real trees, it just looks wrong in a game since its a real picture in the middle of a computer graphics world so it looks out of place, but its even worse when its 2d cause it just looks cheap...ah well
#10
http://balder.prohosting.com/tysoe//tysoe/Grimm/Screen3.jpg
I'm kind of hoping to take the project a lot further with some help of a few other enthusiastic people with time on their hands, and perhaps the V12 engine.
So far I put about a months work into the project.
Evak
09/03/2001 (5:13 pm)
I tried mixing both in my current game demo, allthough I am a currently middle of the road engine, that can't cope with all the rees being rendred realtime, still it doesn't look all that bad at this early stage, allthough its not at all trying to be realistic.http://balder.prohosting.com/tysoe//tysoe/Grimm/Screen3.jpg
I'm kind of hoping to take the project a lot further with some help of a few other enthusiastic people with time on their hands, and perhaps the V12 engine.
So far I put about a months work into the project.
Evak
#11
06/02/2005 (7:56 am)
Looks great, adrian :)
#12
06/02/2005 (8:27 am)
Why are you reviving a thread that hasn't had a new post in the past four years?
#13
06/02/2005 (10:32 am)
LOL, Man this is ancient, Before Torque was called Torque I believe heh. THanks for the compliment though :) Looked pretty good back in 2001 
Braneloc (Keith Hill)
Alternatively, have several billboards based on each angle of the tree and select accordingly.
There are many different techniques associated with this problem. You may want to try low polygon "flat" textured trees with more than one side - stick a texture on each side of an X for example. Experiment :)