Problem Exporting a Basic Shape
by Magra Thea · in Artist Corner · 09/23/2007 (2:41 pm) · 29 replies
I have no idea what im doing wrong....
Im a brand new user of Torque and recently downloaded Constructor 1.03 but Im having difficult even exporting the simplest of shapes.
I created a cylinder and textured it brown and tried to export it and it crashed the program.
I then re-launched and created a 10 meter sphere with 6 segments and it exported correctly.
I then created a 100 meter sphere with 12 segments and the program completely freaked the geometry on me.
I expect this possibly with a very complicated scene with hundreds of parts, but WHY am I supposed to expect this behaviour from just the creation of a SINGLE primitive?
Im a brand new user of Torque and recently downloaded Constructor 1.03 but Im having difficult even exporting the simplest of shapes.
I created a cylinder and textured it brown and tried to export it and it crashed the program.
I then re-launched and created a 10 meter sphere with 6 segments and it exported correctly.
I then created a 100 meter sphere with 12 segments and the program completely freaked the geometry on me.
I expect this possibly with a very complicated scene with hundreds of parts, but WHY am I supposed to expect this behaviour from just the creation of a SINGLE primitive?
#22
2) The torque pipeline isn't exactly the most... straight road you will ever find. Constructor is what it is, and Matt and the other's are very much aware of it's shortcomings. They have also stated that they will get to them soon. But, there are several other CSG programs that can be used, and to varying degrees. I am skilled on several of them, but prefer GTKRadiant simply because I have many years experience using, and teaching people how to use it. You will need to explore it and others to find out which you feel more comfortable with. Before we go any further, You mentioned portals, and as of right now, only one exporter will handle them (the legacy map2dif TGEA.. to my knowledge, unless you are using TGE and not TGEA, then maybe Blake could answer this) which is located in constructor. You will have to experiment with the other exporters for dif's not containing portals if you so choose, but keep that in mind. I know you are going to have specific issues in the future in acouple areas, but I will answer them when the time comes.
3) I can't help you ijn reference to Milkshape, for while I have a license for it, I rarely leave max. There are several people here who can help you though.
4) I just opened GTK Radiant 1.5, and it "appears" that yes, 1.5 is the issue. I received the same error message you did, so maybe 1.5 achieves the same result another way. I do know 1.4 will do what you require. Either way, no matter which you use, understand the bezier methods you will find in many editors (meshes / pacths etc) will NOT work in torque.
5) I can totally relate to your frustration. I use to get very upset as well when these things happened, but it's easier to resign yourself to just understand the issues are there, and find "work-arounds" for them. Hopefully they will be fixed soon, but allowing them to get you upset will not help your productivity or your blood pressure. :p
side note- I would start putting these issues and questions in the constructor sections, you might get more assistance there (unless your talking about milkshape etc).
09/26/2007 (5:56 am)
1) Ok, you would know your needs better than me; maybe I'm just confused on exactly what you want to achieve, but no worries.2) The torque pipeline isn't exactly the most... straight road you will ever find. Constructor is what it is, and Matt and the other's are very much aware of it's shortcomings. They have also stated that they will get to them soon. But, there are several other CSG programs that can be used, and to varying degrees. I am skilled on several of them, but prefer GTKRadiant simply because I have many years experience using, and teaching people how to use it. You will need to explore it and others to find out which you feel more comfortable with. Before we go any further, You mentioned portals, and as of right now, only one exporter will handle them (the legacy map2dif TGEA.. to my knowledge, unless you are using TGE and not TGEA, then maybe Blake could answer this) which is located in constructor. You will have to experiment with the other exporters for dif's not containing portals if you so choose, but keep that in mind. I know you are going to have specific issues in the future in acouple areas, but I will answer them when the time comes.
3) I can't help you ijn reference to Milkshape, for while I have a license for it, I rarely leave max. There are several people here who can help you though.
4) I just opened GTK Radiant 1.5, and it "appears" that yes, 1.5 is the issue. I received the same error message you did, so maybe 1.5 achieves the same result another way. I do know 1.4 will do what you require. Either way, no matter which you use, understand the bezier methods you will find in many editors (meshes / pacths etc) will NOT work in torque.
5) I can totally relate to your frustration. I use to get very upset as well when these things happened, but it's easier to resign yourself to just understand the issues are there, and find "work-arounds" for them. Hopefully they will be fixed soon, but allowing them to get you upset will not help your productivity or your blood pressure. :p
side note- I would start putting these issues and questions in the constructor sections, you might get more assistance there (unless your talking about milkshape etc).
#23
I can perfectly understand If I was attempting impossibly complicated scenes or geometry. After a couple of attempts with various programs, I started whittling my starting point down to an object that various programs were obviously having fits with. I never expected a simple object like a sphere to cause such consternation among art programs.
It really will be the basis of an entire series of original art-scapes that I would one day hope to put in a content pack of scifi / futuristic buildings. My designs and ideas center around buildings like you would have found in the "Jetsons" cartoon and the basic requirements are to have very large, expansive "round" surface areas that are fully light-scaped with full collisions. I understand that this has to be DIF.
To me the basic starting point is to build a 100 meter sphere and work from there. I am just being driven crazy on how difficult this first step seems to be?
09/26/2007 (6:13 am)
@andrew, david, thanks for your help and long replies so far... It lessens the tension by far. I want to spend my time learning the right program, not banging my head against a wall.I can perfectly understand If I was attempting impossibly complicated scenes or geometry. After a couple of attempts with various programs, I started whittling my starting point down to an object that various programs were obviously having fits with. I never expected a simple object like a sphere to cause such consternation among art programs.
It really will be the basis of an entire series of original art-scapes that I would one day hope to put in a content pack of scifi / futuristic buildings. My designs and ideas center around buildings like you would have found in the "Jetsons" cartoon and the basic requirements are to have very large, expansive "round" surface areas that are fully light-scaped with full collisions. I understand that this has to be DIF.
To me the basic starting point is to build a 100 meter sphere and work from there. I am just being driven crazy on how difficult this first step seems to be?
#24
http://www.delgine.com/index.php
09/26/2007 (7:14 am)
Is there anyone here with knowledge of Delgine 3D? It *looks* like its just the ticket, but, so do all the other programs.http://www.delgine.com/index.php
#25
I'm not sure about the design, but would the players walk on the curves of the buildings? If not, you could combine DTS shapes (for the large domes) and DIF shapes for the walkways and platforms, etc. Or you could team with someone who has implemented the Polysoup collision resource into TGE and see if it works for you with DTS objects. But that's a lot of collision checks.
09/26/2007 (7:18 am)
I have it but have never tried creating curves and using the DIF exporter for it. I've mainly used it for boxy buildings and the like. Things CSG is good for.I'm not sure about the design, but would the players walk on the curves of the buildings? If not, you could combine DTS shapes (for the large domes) and DIF shapes for the walkways and platforms, etc. Or you could team with someone who has implemented the Polysoup collision resource into TGE and see if it works for you with DTS objects. But that's a lot of collision checks.
#26
Didn't you used to watch the "Jetsons"?
or this:
or
But I got stuck at drawing the first rounded dome....
Under normal circumstances, I would cut and flatten the sphere and just use the top half as a dome and hollow it out.
but I might put levels inside and punch windows and doors through the surface of the dome onto ledges and walkways.
09/26/2007 (8:33 am)
No, players walk on flat surfaces.....Didn't you used to watch the "Jetsons"?
or this:
or
But I got stuck at drawing the first rounded dome....
Under normal circumstances, I would cut and flatten the sphere and just use the top half as a dome and hollow it out.
but I might put levels inside and punch windows and doors through the surface of the dome onto ledges and walkways.
#27
Creating the exterior shapes could be done as DTS's as long as you are alright with the bounding boxes (invisible) for collision. If they can't fly into buildings, then it should be fine.
This topic discusses turning off view-culling of large DTS objects.
09/26/2007 (9:36 am)
Yeah. I've seen the Jetsons, but I also seem to remember the conveyors moving along the surfaces at odd angles and curves. And the possibility of landing on curved surfaces when flying from place to place.Creating the exterior shapes could be done as DTS's as long as you are alright with the bounding boxes (invisible) for collision. If they can't fly into buildings, then it should be fine.
This topic discusses turning off view-culling of large DTS objects.
#28
I thought you had to use DIF for collisions if the surface was going to be expansive enough that most of it was off-screen?
09/26/2007 (9:41 am)
No landings on curved surfaces, but they should and will be able to land onto flat surfaces..I thought you had to use DIF for collisions if the surface was going to be expansive enough that most of it was off-screen?
#29
09/26/2007 (9:46 am)
That's what that thread addresses. It stops the engine from culling large DTS shapes. That way you could have your huge sphere. Beware, though. If you do not cull them, they will still be actively rendered even when they are not in view. So they will take up processing power. 
Torque Owner Magra Thea
From what I understand, large objects that will contain interior space and objects that will frequently scroll off screen with complicated collisions has to be a DIF.
I can't believe its this hard to get ONE single, simple object into the system? Is this a dirty little secret of Torque?
I saw function within milkshape to directly control the size of an object in units. The resize tool only appears to change the size of objects by percentages and thats totally unacceptable. If I have an object that is 53 meters long and it needs to be precisely 50.7 meters, am I expected to compute the ratio of the difference by hand and then apply the %? If so, thats STOOPID, if no, I havent found anywhere in milkshape to do this.
I also can't believe that there is such a limiting factor in 1.5? It doesnt make any sense that you COULD make a sphere with 20 sides in 1.4 and not in 1.5?
Thanks for all your help so far!
I just can't believe how frustrating this is. I will not be relegated to paying $1000's per license for a program just to do this SIMPLE modelling!