3 Issues With Large Scenes
by Masser · in Constructor · 09/01/2007 (10:48 am) · 23 replies
I have a large scene (actually, not that large really) with over 500 brushes (1300 faces?), 40 point lights and about 350 static meshes (ranging in size from 100 to 1300 polys each; most on the lower end). No portals or anything else added, as of yet. Here are my issues:
1) Since many of the objects are hidden from view (in a tight space), I select them using the Scene Object Browser (not sure what it's called -- the list of objects on the right side of screen) and SHIFT click multiple objects instead of clicking objects directly inthe 3D viewport. If the list is short (like 50 objects), I am fine. If I have to select from a longer list, everytime I select an object from the list, the scrollbar resets itself to the top of the list (and the selected object name slides below again). This means to select a group of 20 objects, I have to drag scrollbar down and select object, drag scrollbar down and select next object, etc... It would be much faster if the scollbar did not reset itself (perhaps it could only reset on empty selection set or maintain focus on selection).
2) I save the scene, close it and then re-open it. I export to "DIF" and Constructor (1.0.3) crashes on the "Exporting Lightmaps" step (looks like it completes first) every time. If I export a previously saved version, without the 350 DTS objects, it exports fine.
3) I have also noticed that if you do either Linear or Array Clone with a large set of objects (maybe 200 brushes or 25 included DTS's), it makes it past the "make" step but crashes on Save. Somehow, a simple copy and paste of the same objects seems to work. I was trying to use these tools to duplicate full buildings (furnished and lit) and this is where I always had problems. Has this version (1.0.3) been tested under extreme circumstances, with large number of brushes and baked in static meshes?
For what it's worth, my system has 2GB of memory and a decent system and video card. Has anyone else had similar experiences that they were able to work around?
Thanks,
Masser
1) Since many of the objects are hidden from view (in a tight space), I select them using the Scene Object Browser (not sure what it's called -- the list of objects on the right side of screen) and SHIFT click multiple objects instead of clicking objects directly inthe 3D viewport. If the list is short (like 50 objects), I am fine. If I have to select from a longer list, everytime I select an object from the list, the scrollbar resets itself to the top of the list (and the selected object name slides below again). This means to select a group of 20 objects, I have to drag scrollbar down and select object, drag scrollbar down and select next object, etc... It would be much faster if the scollbar did not reset itself (perhaps it could only reset on empty selection set or maintain focus on selection).
2) I save the scene, close it and then re-open it. I export to "DIF" and Constructor (1.0.3) crashes on the "Exporting Lightmaps" step (looks like it completes first) every time. If I export a previously saved version, without the 350 DTS objects, it exports fine.
3) I have also noticed that if you do either Linear or Array Clone with a large set of objects (maybe 200 brushes or 25 included DTS's), it makes it past the "make" step but crashes on Save. Somehow, a simple copy and paste of the same objects seems to work. I was trying to use these tools to duplicate full buildings (furnished and lit) and this is where I always had problems. Has this version (1.0.3) been tested under extreme circumstances, with large number of brushes and baked in static meshes?
For what it's worth, my system has 2GB of memory and a decent system and video card. Has anyone else had similar experiences that they were able to work around?
Thanks,
Masser
#2
Does Quark (or any other tool on the market) allow for baked in DTS objects? That aside, I haven't really had a bad time with Constructor -- it's great for DIF-only scenes.
09/01/2007 (4:20 pm)
The thought of switching to something else has crossed my mind (at least for awhile until Constructor gets more stable) but my major problems seem to occur when I try to combine brushes and DTS meshes in the same exported DIF. I do this because assembling a complex scene (with hundreds of static meshes) is just a non-option in Mission Editor.Does Quark (or any other tool on the market) allow for baked in DTS objects? That aside, I haven't really had a bad time with Constructor -- it's great for DIF-only scenes.
#3
09/01/2007 (6:55 pm)
I need to utilize portals.. so not using constructor appears to be not an option. 
#4
Quark have portal support. Quark do not have DTS support, and Quark have sloppy texturing features, difficult to place and control DIF lights, just to mention some of the things Constructor actually can do better. Its just to bad it takes so much tinkering to get Constructor to give a good export, I have spent many hours on some DIF with constructor before deciding my time is to valuable to wast on experimental software. Lucky a cleaver use of BOTH tools can reward some great results.
09/01/2007 (11:30 pm)
English is not high on your list of options either... Quark have portal support. Quark do not have DTS support, and Quark have sloppy texturing features, difficult to place and control DIF lights, just to mention some of the things Constructor actually can do better. Its just to bad it takes so much tinkering to get Constructor to give a good export, I have spent many hours on some DIF with constructor before deciding my time is to valuable to wast on experimental software. Lucky a cleaver use of BOTH tools can reward some great results.
#5
confused on who or what your referencing.
I do not use Quark, but I do use GTKRadiant at times. To my knowledge, there is no exporter from either, that will handle portals from .map to .dif. If I am wrong, please correct me (link).
09/01/2007 (11:49 pm)
Quote:English is not high on your list of options either...
confused on who or what your referencing.
I do not use Quark, but I do use GTKRadiant at times. To my knowledge, there is no exporter from either, that will handle portals from .map to .dif. If I am wrong, please correct me (link).
#6
We must build us a pipeline for gtkradiant? :)
09/02/2007 (12:45 am)
Its very hard to find a each tool as the gtkradiant for torque.We must build us a pipeline for gtkradiant? :)
#7
Use map2dif_plus as your BSP to Torque DIF converter program, it supports Portals JUST fine.
Any BSP program that exports as .MAP may be converted using map2dif_plus.
Im not sure what version of the map2dif_plus.exe is floating around here, but i have collected 9 different map2dif exporters and each of them have some function the other one do not. (A telling history of how Garage Games LOVE to make sure ONE product is finished WELL and fine, before dumping out another sorta-working product, not a single exporter is bug free....)
I have some map2dif exporters that use 'Radiosity' for light rendering, which gives truly beautiful results, but do not have portals.
If someone wish to play with the map2dif exporters, but do not wish to collect there own, i could zip them up and hand them out to ones that send me an email request.
09/02/2007 (12:02 pm)
I was commenting about "so not using constructor appears to be not an option"; its a 'Double Negative', makes your sentence read as : 'constructor appears to be not an option'. So i find this type of thing funny, call me a geek.Use map2dif_plus as your BSP to Torque DIF converter program, it supports Portals JUST fine.
Any BSP program that exports as .MAP may be converted using map2dif_plus.
Im not sure what version of the map2dif_plus.exe is floating around here, but i have collected 9 different map2dif exporters and each of them have some function the other one do not. (A telling history of how Garage Games LOVE to make sure ONE product is finished WELL and fine, before dumping out another sorta-working product, not a single exporter is bug free....)
I have some map2dif exporters that use 'Radiosity' for light rendering, which gives truly beautiful results, but do not have portals.
If someone wish to play with the map2dif exporters, but do not wish to collect there own, i could zip them up and hand them out to ones that send me an email request.
#8
LOL. No worries though. I do apprciate the information very much and I think there are very few people in these forums that display a mastery of spelling and grammar. It's the content that matters. It sounds like my goal to find another editor, if I do indeed plan to maintain baked-in DTS and portals (and I do), is not possible at this point.
Again, thanks for the info and no offense intended.
09/02/2007 (12:39 pm)
@Caylo: Dude, let's not start criticizing English skills. It is CLEARLY not your first language, as is apparent from your entire post. LOL. No worries though. I do apprciate the information very much and I think there are very few people in these forums that display a mastery of spelling and grammar. It's the content that matters. It sounds like my goal to find another editor, if I do indeed plan to maintain baked-in DTS and portals (and I do), is not possible at this point.
Again, thanks for the info and no offense intended.
#9
Im not offended. Its just sad that such a simple thing is even construed as criticizing. (If it were criticizing it would be laced with insults also...)
Baked-in DTS was never a function of DIF. Baked-in DTS is a feature of Torque Constructor, a nice feature but mostly busted right now. All i have to offer as help in the line of your problem is that some Constructor functions are busted, it may be best to wait for the needed functions to be fixed. Or find a way to do what you need some other way.
I myself have been building DIF in Quark, using one of the many map2dif exporters, and placing lights and DTS in the Torque world editor. There are a few simple programing changes one may make, so small detail DTS cast shadows. (I belive if you seek tsStatic.cc or shapeBase.cc and read it like a good book, you will find the section to change. I dont have time to dig into what i changed as of right now...) If you send me an email, I will try and reply with some clues as to what/where as soon i find more time.
09/02/2007 (1:12 pm)
Pointing out a funny thing is criticizing? I only mention it as a 'funny' because in that situation what one person THINKS they said, is not truly what was conversed. Very few people use proper English anymore, and even less people care about spelling! But being sure you get your meaning across is important.Im not offended. Its just sad that such a simple thing is even construed as criticizing. (If it were criticizing it would be laced with insults also...)
Baked-in DTS was never a function of DIF. Baked-in DTS is a feature of Torque Constructor, a nice feature but mostly busted right now. All i have to offer as help in the line of your problem is that some Constructor functions are busted, it may be best to wait for the needed functions to be fixed. Or find a way to do what you need some other way.
I myself have been building DIF in Quark, using one of the many map2dif exporters, and placing lights and DTS in the Torque world editor. There are a few simple programing changes one may make, so small detail DTS cast shadows. (I belive if you seek tsStatic.cc or shapeBase.cc and read it like a good book, you will find the section to change. I dont have time to dig into what i changed as of right now...) If you send me an email, I will try and reply with some clues as to what/where as soon i find more time.
#10
09/02/2007 (2:10 pm)
I appreciate that and may take you up on it if Constructor doesn't stabilize in a reasonable timeframe. For now, the benefits of being able to arrange a map with hundreds of meshes (mine are pretty complex) inside of the editor make me want to wait for now. Thank you for your help.
#11
Just kidding. It does come across as rather funky (what I wrote).
Anyway, First and foremost I need functioning portals. Without those, all the other things would mean nothing. I will take your advise and try the map2dif tgea and see how it does. I'll post back with my results.
LK
09/02/2007 (6:25 pm)
GEEK! :pJust kidding. It does come across as rather funky (what I wrote).
Anyway, First and foremost I need functioning portals. Without those, all the other things would mean nothing. I will take your advise and try the map2dif tgea and see how it does. I'll post back with my results.
LK
#12
09/02/2007 (6:54 pm)
Good luck. And thou I do not use TGEA, i would like to know as to see what its map2dif supports....
#13
09/02/2007 (9:32 pm)
Ok, tried three times with the map2dif TGEA, and each time it crashed the engine as soon as I clicked on it to open.
#14
09/02/2007 (9:35 pm)
Oh, that sux... Did you try a map WITH portals, and a map WITHOUT portals? (just to make sure its portals?)...
#15
09/02/2007 (9:55 pm)
Actually.. it crashed even without portals which is strange. The test level is nothing but acouple hallways and one texture. hmm.. gonna take another look at it.
#16
09/02/2007 (10:10 pm)
You could use the map2dif_plus_tse.exe from the Constructor folder with any BSP edit software (that will export as a .map file...). In case the map2dif that you are experimenting with is junk..
#17
http://holodeck.st.usm.edu/vrcomputing/vrc_t/tutorials/editing/
I then saved the .map in quark, drag and dropped it into map2dif_plus_tse.exe. upon attempting to open the created dif in the engine, it crashed instantly. I think there may be a difference between TGE and TGEA in this area.
09/03/2007 (8:18 am)
Imported my test.map into quark, setting up portals in it as it shows from here:http://holodeck.st.usm.edu/vrcomputing/vrc_t/tutorials/editing/
I then saved the .map in quark, drag and dropped it into map2dif_plus_tse.exe. upon attempting to open the created dif in the engine, it crashed instantly. I think there may be a difference between TGE and TGEA in this area.
#18
If I create a map in Constructor 1.0.3, add portals and EXPORT AS DIF, will my portals remain in the exported DIF? Or is map2dif or map2dif_plus required seperately? My target platofrm is TGE -- not TGEA.
09/03/2007 (10:29 am)
Ok, I have to ask a stupid question. I've done quite a bit of mapping in Constructor recently, but have just begun to explore portals.If I create a map in Constructor 1.0.3, add portals and EXPORT AS DIF, will my portals remain in the exported DIF? Or is map2dif or map2dif_plus required seperately? My target platofrm is TGE -- not TGEA.
#19
09/03/2007 (12:56 pm)
Im thinking yes, i recall reading 'Portal support' in the Constructor feature list. To test, build a simple box shape and run-test it. Change the zone light setting so if your box is unlit inside you would know if the portal is working.
#20
My Torque export configuration for QUARK looks like this (Find at:QuArK Explorer window -EDIT -CONFIGURATION -under Games find -Torque)
09/03/2007 (1:32 pm)
Andrew, you may be correct. I dont know anything about TGEA. Try and run map2dif_plus_tse.exe from the 'DOS' window and use map2dif_plus_tse.exe -h. Not sure why but all my export settings have it....My Torque export configuration for QUARK looks like this (Find at:QuArK Explorer window -EDIT -CONFIGURATION -under Games find -Torque)
Torque 3D Owner Caylo Gypsyblood