Please God allow us to search the Constructor forums

#21 Oh boy !

Stephen i hope garage has issued u with some really good kevlar!

#22 Stephen, your words are, as most of the times, clarifying.

Nevertheless, I think you now have to "lost" 30 minutes, beacuse no one invest 1.5 minutes before you, on writing two lines communicating the current situation (or something!!).

I think you will agreed with me, its not as frustrating having to deal with X bug, as to have no answer about that, even when the comments go on, and go on, and go on... this only lead to a scaling on the posts-tone, and general feelings getting down.


On the other part, I think the posts style of Mark Jordaan get everything worse, beacuse it is agressive, not well informed, and useless. Is really a nonsense what he did on this forum, because there is a shadow of truth on his words, but it is imposible to see it, due to an unnecesary aggressive style that at the end, only get the situation worse, with people "per se" already dissapointed.

Edit: spell

#23 An GarageGames acknowledgment to a thread could be as short and sweet as "We are doing what we can..." , you see at least then you have deflated the frustration from th people that are having the issues, and at the same time GarageGames people have said 'nothing' and taken very little of there precious time to say it!

Sometimes it truly do appear that GarageGames is not doing a darn thing... Sometimes i get the feeling that as soon as GarageGames collected the cash GarageGames quickly forgets about its customers. I like to know whats going on, i like to feel as if im part of something. And GarageGames is something to be proud of being part of...

#24 Stephen,

Point taken, and you stated it well. Thank you. And I agree, there are always things that come up as being more important, etc. That's with any business and understandable. I was perfectly satisfied with Matt Fairfax's response in a couple of other threads basically stating something like "I have a lot on my plate right now, but we'll look into it when we can" or "I can't give a realistic timeline on when the fix will happen." That likely took him a few minutes to respond.

There are many things that don't work correctly and we live with them. There are some things that are slowing (to a halt) our production schedules because of issues with constructor, and that really sux and gives a lot of frustration to people that are staking their efforts in GG products.

With that said, this post is about a lack of response from GG. A quick 3-minute response saying that it's a known issue that we can't search the forums, and that it's a daily topic would at least let us know that you've read it and are truly discussing it. It doesn't take 30 minutes to say that, and this thread would have likely stopped a long time ago.

We do appreciate the hard work that you guys put in (heck, I've seen posts that are obviously after business hours from employees), and want to congratulate you. So keep it up, and please keep us informed of what's going on.

Thanks much!

#25 @Novak: (and Woody) taken on a 1 for 1 basis, I can't argue at all that spending a few minutes to jot down a quick response could have alleviated the time required for my follow-up...but the problem is, this is just one thread of literally thousands that happen every week, and we have to do what we can to spend the time making responses to those that we can effectively communicate a "satisfying" response.

I don't want to come across as uppity or "self-stroking", but there's a lot to factor in sometimes in regards to throwing up quick responses--sometimes they meet needs and effectively communicate to everyone's satisfaction--but sometimes, a rapid response can act as a spark to a thread that has a lot of follow-up consequences and expectation adjustment--and sometimes it's more effective to treat a "forum fire" by letting it burn out. Again, just being completely honest and up front here.

If Matt or I had answered "noted" somewhere in this thread, all that would have done was to delay an expectation management requirement into the future, because eventually someone would re-visit the thread with increased emotional attachment to the thread's message--and when feasible, it's almost always better to solve a situation instead of simply acknowledging it, so in the rare cases where we think a solution might be closer than it truly is, we may delay responding to a community concern until we can give full information.

In my perspective at least, that's what happened here in this thread--originally I thought it could be a rapid fix, so instead of responding I asked for the resource to fix it. Unfortunately, that resource wasn't available at the time, but the request sparked an internal set of meetings to address the issue fully, leading to an increased delay in being able to answer the thread. Ultimately, the thread came back, and required additional time than was originally necessary to manage the expectation. Turns out that in hindsight there was an obvious solution--answer "it's being worked on, solution eventually" and be done with it, but hindsight is always 20/20.

(later edit) It also needs to be considered that rapid responses have expectations in and of themselves: Woody mentions that saying "it's being worked on" would have been a good rapid response, but honestly, it wouldn't. It's being planned around, but quite honestly, it's not being worked on right now from an implementation standpoint. I actually do respond in that manner when I can, and Matt does as well--but I can't (don't want to, and won't) lie, or even falsely imply, to manage an expectation.

#26 Heh... thats what I call put something in context.

In the way you explain yourself (and GG) here, I think there is no place for misunderstanding. I see part of your perspective, and understand much more some things now.

Let me say, I think everyone that reads this thread, will eventually understand a little more the way the things are cooked here, and then act a bit more in consequence with that, so your time here this time will act as counter-fire ;)

#27 Stephen has already covered this topic pretty well but I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in as well.

This thread has been on my "follow-up" list for a couple weeks now (keep in mind it is only just over two weeks old).

The main reasons I haven't followed up on it sooner are:

1) Searching in general is bugged on our forums and, unless getting this fixed is a 30 sec task for one of our webdevs, it simply isn't going to get looked into any time soon. Our web development team is *totally* slammed for the next 3-4 months with something that is higher priority (and, yes, that is with a considerable hire-up).

2) I didn't want to say I was "working on it" until I had at least gone and asked if it was a 30 sec task and, while it was on my task list, it hasn't been a high priority task. It can also be hard to lay hands on the one guy who knows *anything* about the Google Mini that powers our searches.

3) I was going to post something "placating" last Friday when this flared up but it was already after 7PM and my wife was waiting. Since it looked like things had calmed down yesterday and my time was at an extreme premium, I decided to finish up another task and come back to this thread today (Stephen beat me to it).

4) The Constructor forums are *tiny*. A "manual" skim over the thread titles will find you pretty much anything you are looking for really quickly. Even if you can't find it that way, asking where to find something will often get a pretty quick response.

Between me and Stephen very nearly every thread on our forums is read on a daily basis (some of the game forums slip by). Even when I *just* read and don't respond to any of them I end up spending 2 full work days (spread out over the week) on it. I have to be very selective on which ones I spend any time on and, honestly, I don't have the time to worry about every time someone claims "GG isn't listening".

Finally:

Quote:
Sometimes it truly do appear that GarageGames is not doing a darn thing... Sometimes i get the feeling that as soon as GarageGames collected the cash GarageGames quickly forgets about its customers.

You may not realize it but statements like this are *extremely* insulting to GarageGames employees. Every single one of us has had to make *huge* sacrifices to make GarageGames a reality (imagine suddenly making 1/3 of the salary you do now and then multiply that by 5-6 years...yeah...ouch). Saying things like "GarageGames is only out to make money" or "GarageGames doesn't care about its customers" horribly belittles all of the work, time, and money we have poured into this company. Most people here would be less insulted if you walked up and punched us in the face. So, I would ask you to keep comments like that to yourself.

#28 Just to finalize what Matt said in terms that might make even more sense to the indy developers out there:

Just about 100% of those of us brought on to GG from the community (Matt and I both being prime examples) literally gave up hope of ever finishing our own personal indie projects--my game for example has been tabled for more than 2 years.

When I made the decision to come join GG, I was making more money in 3 months than I made at GG for 2 years, which let me spend the rest of the year focusing on my dream. I gave that up for the opportunity to do everything I could to let others (you guys) realize their dreams in the best way I could--and to this day just about every waking moment I think about how to make your experience and capability to meet your dreams as strong as possible.

We're not asking for sympathy here, nor do we regret our decisions--but as Matt said, saying that "GG is only after the money" is naive, inaccurate, and such a low blow to us personally that it really does hurt.

#29 Its all perfectly understandable. I like this type of communication, its hard (if not imposible) to find man-to-man open discussion and communication, on almost none modern company.

Anyway, beyond some unfortunate comments, there is always understandable opinions and fair claims from the community too. And I see that somehow there is this pattern, where

1) people claim
2) nobody answer
2) people go unpolite
3) someone finally answer and complaint about people been unpolite
4) personal feelings of GG employees become suddenly more important than the personal feelings of anyone.
5) most of the times the original claim its not solved


Please! listen to this, I mean really read this: I dont mean to sound agressive on this.

But the las two comments were somehow too far for the expectations of an answer from a company. Im happy we can chat about each others lifes, BUT if we cannot complaint about problems on products, and about the answer times, because the employees feel it like a personal attack, then it became into an absolute ridiculous situation.

And take this as a constructive critic, from a person that before your last two comments really understand the situation, and after your last two comments feel like you are really good people, but listen to this: you have no reason at all to merge that two concepts into "we are good people, so dont complaint about GG"

EDIT: spell and grammar

#30 Scratches head and reaches for battered copy of Roget's Thesaurus

#31 There is nothing wrong, at all with making constructive observations, comments, or complaints. Both Matt and my reactions in the last two posts were specifically in answer to the quote Matt included, which isn't constructive, and extremely de-motivational on our parts when we get it repeatedly (not to pick on a particular person, but I've heard that comment from that poster specifically at least 3 times).

The reason I went into specifics personally was to be totally up front--I'm doing this because I want to, and the community--you guys-- is the reason I want to. Matt said to me just last week that flat out he values the community more than any other aspect of working at GG--and I personally agree. I think it's really important for you guys to understand that is where we are coming from, day to day, hour to hour, so you can correctly interpret what may seem unusual or poorly timed information.

#32 I wasn't trying to say or imply, "we are good people, so dont complaint about GG".

If you had to boil our posts down they would come down to two things:

1) We are so busy that we can't always respond to everything (complaints or valid concerns) but we *are* watching.

2) Making statements like Caylo's are inflammatory and not appreciated (with an explanation of why they aren't appreciated). As hardened as Stephen and I are to stuff like that, it still hurts moreso than might be obvious to an outsider.

Perhaps I should have separated the two points I was trying to make into two posts so that the issues would not be confused or construed as us using "we are the good guys" as an excuse.

#33

Quote: but we *are* watching.

Quickly throws up bubble shield and pulls out "Sword of Thwacking" +30 hp and instant stun and full heal

and hides behind desk

"ha, let them watch"


"i'm ready"

#34 Ok Stephen and Matt, boys, I really appreciate you take some time to answer this posts.

I dont neither think you put your feelings as excuse, I was suspecting that you could maybe be merging somethings without necessarily wanting it.

Nevertheless, I have clear now what you mean, and what exactly you want to remark.

#35 Stephen and Matt: Thanks for letting us know, and for the "man to man" words, as another poster said.

Just fyi, I DO realize you may be working on something that is actually more important to me--and in fact probably are. I can think of several things that would apply. This just seemed to me like a low cost --> high benefit sort of thing, and the lack of response was amplified...by the fact that I couldn't SEARCH for a response! Doh!

Seriously, the forums are the brains of the community, and right now the Constructor users community's brains are like...vivisected, and not connecting to each other. And this is bad, and now I know that you know this. Great. I do think perhaps it is too low a priority, because the push/pull on the Constructor forums that starts now will matter down the road for you. Every day the "forum knowledge base" for Constructor is starting from scratch. What a waste! But I guess the Google search box isn't plug and play, eh? No matter what you say, I'm convinced that there's a slim white pizza box with the Google logo on it lying on a table somewhere and all you gotta do is give it a good whack to get this going.

Please don't characterize my feelings, though. I know perfectly well that a response to my question was not more important than anything else you could possibly do. What nonsense.

However, I know from experience that you, Stephen, personally read probably every single post made here--which means that you chose not to deign to answer--several times. A quick "sorry guys, it's harder than it sounds, we know it sucks, we're working on it" would have been quite sufficient--no half hour post or long forum thread drama necessary. Please recall the tone of my first post, and understand how I view myself in the food chain. You guys are my gods. Seriously. You rock.

But seriously, I was getting really concerned that some horrible sh*t like you're selling the company to MS or something was going down, is why nothing was happening and there were no replies. I'm sorry I threatened to be offended. We know you read the forums. Scared the crap out of me, Stephen.

#36 We try Lee, we really do try--and like I said, in hindsight this particular thread should have been handled differently--will work on it!

Quote:
No matter what you say, I'm convinced that there's a slim white pizza box with the Google logo on it lying on a table somewhere and all you gotta do is give it a good whack to get this going.

you made be laugh, because other than the fact that it's black, this is pretty accurate. It's a sealed system, which I understand we can attempt to configure differently, but that's about all the direct capability we have with it. And the people that have access/knowledge--well, we've beaten that horse enough I think :(

#37 You may not realize it but statements like this are *extremely* insulting to GarageGames employees. Every single one of us has had to make *huge* sacrifices to make GarageGames a reality (imagine suddenly making 1/3 of the salary you do now and then multiply that by 5-6 years...yeah...ouch). Saying things like "GarageGames is only out to make money" or "GarageGames doesn't care about its customers" horribly belittles all of the work, time, and money we have poured into this company. Most people here would be less insulted if you walked up and punched us in the face. So, I would ask you to keep comments like that to yourself.

I was only expressing an opinion formed from observation... Opinions may often sound harsh, but opinions should not offend. Im sure allot of people get the opinion that im a royal jerk. But my time spend doing something is JUST as valuable as your time doing something. (And overall I really am a nice caring considerate person...)

Until the last few(5 or so) months GarageGames have been VERY good at communication with its loyal customer base.

#38 Stephen/Matt,

I completely understand what your saying. I don't think very many people intend to insult you guys.. I think most everyone fully realizes you guys are working hard, getting things done, reading most if not all the posts, etc. The problem (sometimes) is what GG deems to be High priority, and what clients think should be high priority, don't always match up. Heck, not very many people DO agree on what should be high priority, even between us. I do not know what GG has established as High Priority (not complaining), but I assume it must be those issues that would be "show stoppers". Things that prevent teams from moving forward for lack of options of some kind. There are two or three of those being discussed in other threads.

If you see me complaining (and I try and watch what I say when I'm aggravated) I hope you realize that while I may say some things that could be considered negative, I in know way think you guys are sitting around drinking mountain dew and playing hop-scotch. I totally believe you guys are Dr. pepper kinda people! The hop-scotch.. well.. I have my suspicions... :P

#39 I think most of us are more hops than scotch, although you never know :)

#40 Sorry to come back so late in this thread, but I appreciate what everyone is saying, from both sides. As mentioned before, I completely that certain things are not prioritized the way some of us would like... after all, you can please some of the people some of the time, but can't please all of the people all of the time.

I just want to say "Keep up the hard work." ...and thank you. And I hope that nobody takes offense to anything that I said either. It get's extremely frustrating when I think about the countless hours that I have wasted trying to get things that don't work working (Constructor, et al). But I also see the value in the potential there, which is why I even take some of my time, just like you are doing, to express my feelings a bit. The way I see it, if I don't say anything, then NOTHING will be done. If I do, then maybe something will be done, maybe it won't. But at least my ideas/observations are being heard and considered. Thank you for hearing us.

And say HI and THANKS to the big wigs over there... we know you're listening. ;-P