Constructor is a trash tool

#1 Constructor does take some time to "heat up" initially, but it is fairly stable.

As far as a gtk --> torque.. here is what I have done.. maybe it will help a bit. First, I made gtk only see my custom texture folders (besides a system folder) for ease of picing textures. This includes copying the contructors version of a auxilary folder (the one with null in it). I then have used gtk to make the brush work as well as placing the textures. I save my work as a .map, and then open it in constructor. If the folders are in the same order on both contructor and gtk, it will load up with no issues.. though lighting I do in contructor or in the actual mission editor, depending on what I want.

- I do not know what you mean by converting the q3 portals into tgea ones. All you need to do is create a brush in radiant according to the rules of torque portals (if you need, I can explain how), and then once in contructor, select that brush and change it into a portal.. thats it.

- Texture browser.. like I said, I place all my textures on in gtk.. though you will still need to set up the same file structure in constructor for you to see your imported .map with textures already on.

- do not use caulk.. use the null texture on anything you would have used caulk on in q3.

I hope I wasnt confusing.. if you need anything else, say so and Ill try and be more specific.


LK

edit - I do not think you can add ANY .map that contains .ase anything. you cannot import a map that uses any form of mesh either.

#2 [ As far as a gtk --> torque.. here is what I have done.. maybe it will help a bit. First, I made gtk only see my custom texture folders (besides a system folder) for ease of picing textures. This includes copying the contructors version of a auxilary folder (the one with null in it). I then have used gtk to make the brush work as well as placing the textures. I save my work as a .map, and then open it in constructor. If the folders are in the same order on both contructor and gtk, it will load up with no issues.. though lighting I do in contructor or in the actual mission editor, depending on what I want. ]

The problem is the map format of the constructor. This is not compatible to the Gtkradiant map format.
I can build a map with the radiant and the i can load this map correctly in constructor, but when i save the file in constructor i can't load this file with the gtkradiant!

- I do not know what you mean by converting the q3 portals into tgea ones. All you need to do is create a brush in radiant according to the rules of torque portals (if you need, I can explain how), and then once in contructor, select that brush and change it into a portal.. thats it.

Yes, i had place many q3 portals in my q3 maps. When i select all this portals in constructor and set them to tgea protals it works, but when i start to compile the map the constructor crashes!

- Texture browser.. like I said, I place all my textures on in gtk.. though you will still need to set up the same file structure in constructor for you to see your imported .map with textures already on.

I don't have a problem with the file structur, but this part is verly slow with a high texture count.

- do not use caulk.. use the null texture on anything you would have used caulk on in q3.

Yes, i import my q3 map with many caulk faces. Then i select all faces with the caulk texture. Now i waiting any time before constructor had select all faces. Only now i can set the null texture to all caulk faces and press apply.

I hope I wasnt confusing.. if you need anything else, say so and Ill try and be more specific.

Yes, where is this pipeline?
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=10579

Alex

#3 [The problem is the map format of the constructor. This is not compatible to the Gtkradiant map format.
I can build a map with the radiant and the i can load this map correctly in constructor, but when i save the file in constructor i can't load this file with the gtkradiant!]

- So..? How does this make it different than most other programs?


[Yes, i had place many q3 portals in my q3 maps. When i select all this portals in constructor and set them to tgea protals it works, but when i start to compile the map the constructor crashes!]

- I'd suggest checking on how you created your portals.. size, shape, and positioning. importing q3 portals is irrelevent to the process so no need to talk about that let alone do it.


[Yes, i import my q3 map with many caulk faces. Then i select all faces with the caulk texture. Now i waiting any time before constructor had select all faces. Only now i can set the null texture to all caulk faces and press apply.]

- if you do what I stated you wouldnt have this to worry about.

[Yes, where is this pipeline?]

- There never was suppose to be one (gtk specific)

#4 - So..? How does this make it different than most other programs?

Constructor uses a other map format as the q3 map format. ( half-life )
It is not possible to create a workflow. Look at Quark, this is compatible to the gtkradiant ( q3 ) map fomat.
Please add a function to save maps in constructor as compatible q3 map format.

- I'd suggest checking on how you created your portals.. size, shape, and positioning. importing q3 portals is irrelevent to the process so no need to talk about that let alone do it.

Andrew, the portalbrushes of my q3 maps have a own texture. ( hide )
So i can under constructor select all brushes with this texture and the set them to tgea portals.
But when i compile the map, constructor crashes!
I think this tool is not testet with a high count of portals!

[Yes, i import my q3 map with many caulk faces. Then i select all faces with the caulk texture. Now i waiting any time before constructor had select all faces. Only now i can set the null texture to all caulk faces and press apply.]

- if you do what I stated you wouldnt have this to worry about.

Same thing, i don't use caulk in constructor, but i will convert caulk textures in null textures. The selection of caulk faces is lazy.

- There never was suppose to be one (gtk specific)

I had in mind there are 70000 users of torque, but where are the big projects that needs similar features.
We want to port our big project to tgea, but without a practicable workflow it is not possible.

dts mapmodels don't work into dif's .... not practicable
portals don't work in tgea ... not practicable
constructor map format <> gtkradiant, quark... not practicable
...

Alex

#5 I looked at your profile and saw that you are a member since april. I dont know when constructor came out exactly but before constructor most people, i believe, were building difs in either quark or worldcraft. Some people wanted to build difs in Maya so they wrote a maya exporter.

My point; So, you need a tool for professional work, you are working on a big project and one of the tools provided by garagagames isn't working for you?... You have a problem that you need to solve! Sad enough you cant get constructors source code but you didn't like the program anyway so i would suggest you create your own pipeline or write a new exporter that works for you.

#6 I am still using DeleLite, I think it is alot better.

#7 ...i would suggest you create your own pipeline or write a new exporter that works for you.

Vincent, thats the point. We search an engine to port our current client.
The team has no interest to fix or update the garagegames editors, because the engine is not free.
Why we must create simplest tools before we can use the engine for the right game?

I'm very disappointed about the situation and it is bether to switch the engine.
Why should we spend money to shaky tools and many fault features? ( mirror, portals, atlas2, shadows...)

Alex

Edit :

Fucifer

There is a export plugin for Delelite, which can save dif.( dts? )

How is your workflow with this tool?
Can you place dts mapmodels into a dif and the compile?

#8 I see constructor, TGE and TGEA as sepperat producs. This is the constructor feedback forum so lets stick to the subject. You dont have to use constructor (or, like you say, even the engine) there lot of alternative tools to build your interiors. And if you want to use such an alternative tool, like gtkradiant, YOU have to make sure it works. :)

ps. I am also disappointed in TGEA and you should deffinatly switch engine if it doesnt work for you.

#9 Vincent you bundle constructor, tge and tgea to one package with this answer :
...and one of the tools provided by garagagames isn't working for you?... :)

Ok ok, we stick on topic.

Is the a chance to export compatible q3 maps with constructor? So i can work with both tools without destroy maps at exchange.
It is possible to create a plugin, which load ase models into constructor and place them in a dif?

Alex

#10 For me there is a difference between 'engines' and 'tools' so I disagree I bundle gg's producs together and if I do bundle them together it is because I put them under catogory "GG producs". But i mean you arent forced to use them together ( constructor and tgea/tge in this case)

edit: added some things

#11 You will have to remove the curved surfaces that your maps have for Q3 for one thing. For another, Torque and Quake 3 support a different subset of bsp features; one of them being curved surfaces as I noted. Have you tried compiling your .maps with map2dif_plus and the -q3 option? It should at least give you some good feedback on any invalid geometry between the engines.

Constructor has been a great tool for me. Loading a huge number of textures does strain the system, but otherwise, it is a great brush editor.

If you want to use Radiant, you should download the GPL source, compile it, and create your own Radiant workflow. There is absolutely no reason that GG should support a third-party editor. Radiant was made specifically for the mod community of id-licensed games. I personally do not like the workflow that much, though I like the documentation. Neither should they feel compelled to make Torque compatible with the engine featureset of Q3.

In fact, why aren't you using Q3? The engine is now free, and with the massive code-cleanup projects, you'd have a nice, stable codebase. I'm not trying to kick you away from TGE, but you seem to be hung up on Q3 features and workflow that are not native to TGE/A, so I thought that perhaps Q3 would be a better engine for you. And if the GPL is a problem, you could develop your title, shop it around, and get the money together ($10,000) to purchase a per-title license to use the engine in a closed-source state. You, however, could not use any of the GPL'd projects that are out there.

Portals are a documented problem with Constructor 1.0.2 that will hopefully be addressed in 1.0.3.

As you noted, you will have to change your caulk textures to detail brushes to make sure that they are not split.

#12 Hi David,

thanks for this answer. I will explain my state.

"If you want to use Radiant, you should download the GPL source, compile it, and create your own Radiant workflow"

I think both tools have good sites and i would use gtkradiant for raw map and mapmodels and constructor for fine tuning and special tgea features.
But the export map format of constructor is not compatible to gtkradiant oder quark maps.
This is my first problem.

We want change the engine to pimp our game with outdoor features. But the q3 engine is only a indoor engine! I was enthusiastic of tgea, because the dif format is similar to the bsp format and it is not only a indoor map.

Did you a icq account David?

Alex

#13 It seems that it cut-off your reply. Please post again so that I can see if I can help out.

Quote:Yes, where is this pipeline?
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=10579

That is an unreleased project from Prairie Games. I do not know how complete it was, nor how far Josh took it. But it was rather nifty. I have no idea about its status, however.

#14 I haven't logged into ICQ in years. I try to avoid chat clients while at work. I used to login with Meebo, but no one ever got on and I didn't need the added stress when they did.

I can understand why you want to leave the Quake world if you need outdoor topography.

Did you have patches defined in your original Q3 files? I noticed that in some of the OpenArena test maps that I was playing with, that the opening and closing blocks of the brush specifications would get munged when patches were in effect (since Torque does not support patches and strips them out). Perhaps the stripping is causing a problem when moving between programs.

#15 Hi David,

the constructor format looks like the half-life map format.
Please take a look on this:

q3 radiant export :


// entity 0
{
"classname" "worldspawn"
"light_geometry_scale" "256"
// brush 0
{
( 24 -1856 384 ) ( 0 -1856 376 ) ( 0 -1856 384 ) keep/ik_brick_25664d 0 0 0 0.5 0.5 0 0 0
( 0 -1168 384 ) ( 0 -1764 384 ) ( 0 -1764 376 ) keep/ik_brick_25664d 16 0 0 0.5 0.5 0 0 0
( 32 -1152 384 ) ( 24 -1152 384 ) ( 24 -1152 352 ) keep/ik_brick_25664d 0 0 0 0.5 0.5 0 0 0
( 24 -1152 384 ) ( 24 -1748 376 ) ( 24 -1748 384 ) Keep/mauer16 16 0 0 0.5 0.5 0 0 0
( 24 -1168 384 ) ( 24 -1764 384 ) ( 0 -1764 384 ) Keep/mauer16 15 0 90 0.5 0.5 0 0 0
( 24 -1168 376 ) ( 0 -1764 376 ) ( 24 -1764 376 ) Keep/mauer16 0 29 90 0.5 0.5 0 0 0
}
// brush 1
{...

Constructor Export :

// This map has been written by the Torque Constructor
// For more information see http://www.garagegames.com

{
"classname" "worldspawn"
"light_geometry_scale" "256"

// Brush 0
{
( 24 -1856 376 ) ( 0 -1856 376 ) ( 0 -1856 384 ) keep/ik_brick_25664d [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 0.5 0.5
( 0 -1152 376 ) ( 0 -1152 384 ) ( 0 -1856 384 ) keep/ik_brick_25664d [ 0 1 0 16 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 0.5 0.5
( 24 -1152 376 ) ( 24 -1152 384 ) ( 0 -1152 384 ) keep/ik_brick_25664d [ 1 0 0 0 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 0.5 0.5
( 24 -1152 376 ) ( 24 -1856 376 ) ( 24 -1856 384 ) Keep/mauer16 [ 0 1 0 16 ] [ 0 0 -1 0 ] 0 0.5 0.5
( 24 -1152 384 ) ( 24 -1856 384 ) ( 0 -1856 384 ) Keep/mauer16 [ 0 1 0 15 ] [ 1 0 0 0 ] 0 0.5 0.5
( 24 -1152 376 ) ( 0 -1152 376 ) ( 0 -1856 376 ) Keep/mauer16 [ 0 1 0 0 ] [ 1 0 0 29 ] 0 0.5 0.5
}

// Brush 1
{...

Now you can see the problem. :(

Alex

#16 The original DIF format is based on the Valve220 format, which is precisely why it looks that way. Have you tried using map2dif_plus with the -q3 option?

#17 What is the function of the flag?

#18 I believe it is to parse q3 formatted maps, at least insofar as they are compatible with TGE.

#19 Hi,

is it right that i can't use construtor light typs (light_point ...) in tgea?
I'm very confused about this, because the intern sun of tgea places shadows on the lightmap.
When tgea is only for dynamic light source, why it uses for sun a static lightmap?

Alex

#20 I'll let someone else field the TGEA question as I'm not sure. I don't even have a computer hooked up that has a TGEA-compatible graphics card I can test it on right now.