Torque Advantages?
by Patrick Clifford · in Torque Game Engine · 06/26/2007 (8:17 pm) · 10 replies
I recently started to mess around with source SDK (Half life 2) and i noticed it came with a load a c++ files and headers. Im kinda a noob but its safe to assume that these are the source files to the engine correct?
If so i am a little confused as to why i paid $150 for torque. Naturaly i would assume its because i get the source files, and I can edit it as i wanted, but it seems i can do the same with sourceSDK. The half life engine even comes free with the game, and quite frankly it seems it comes with a whole lot more built in features than torque.
So what advantage is there to buying torque over using sourceSDK for someone who is using these programs just for a learning experience?
If so i am a little confused as to why i paid $150 for torque. Naturaly i would assume its because i get the source files, and I can edit it as i wanted, but it seems i can do the same with sourceSDK. The half life engine even comes free with the game, and quite frankly it seems it comes with a whole lot more built in features than torque.
So what advantage is there to buying torque over using sourceSDK for someone who is using these programs just for a learning experience?
#2
As far as Half Life goes its just a mod just like the Unreal Editor. They are not engines, but simply mods.
Last I checked to use the mods for these engines cost $700,000 and up per game title.
Heavy comparison ha. Lets weigh the dollars HMMMM $150 for as many titles as you want or $700,000 for one gee thats a hard one.
06/26/2007 (10:35 pm)
The thing is you paid $150 to make a game in torque or many games for that fact. Who know you could end with one of the biggest selling games. As far as Half Life goes its just a mod just like the Unreal Editor. They are not engines, but simply mods.
Last I checked to use the mods for these engines cost $700,000 and up per game title.
Heavy comparison ha. Lets weigh the dollars HMMMM $150 for as many titles as you want or $700,000 for one gee thats a hard one.
#3
The SDK is freely available and allows one to create mods, based off the HL2 game, which can be released however you cannot make any money off your works. There are probably other conditions you'd have to adhere to as well (such as people must own the HL2 game in order to play your mod).
The advantage of the Torque engine is its price, the fact that you receive the entire source code and can publish commercial works for a very small cost.
The Source engine is a better product however its pricing puts it out of reach to most independent developers.
If you just want to have some fun and are willing to be limited to the style of fps game that the Source SDK caters to, and don't want to sell any products than the Source engine is a reasonable choice.
The Unreal Engine is a similar story. I disagree that it has less advanced graphics and networking than TGEA, as is written in the Wiki entry for it.
Torque Game Engine Advanced Wiki Entry
06/26/2007 (11:19 pm)
The Source engine costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to license. The SDK does not contain the source code for the engine nor is the source code freely available.The SDK is freely available and allows one to create mods, based off the HL2 game, which can be released however you cannot make any money off your works. There are probably other conditions you'd have to adhere to as well (such as people must own the HL2 game in order to play your mod).
The advantage of the Torque engine is its price, the fact that you receive the entire source code and can publish commercial works for a very small cost.
The Source engine is a better product however its pricing puts it out of reach to most independent developers.
If you just want to have some fun and are willing to be limited to the style of fps game that the Source SDK caters to, and don't want to sell any products than the Source engine is a reasonable choice.
The Unreal Engine is a similar story. I disagree that it has less advanced graphics and networking than TGEA, as is written in the Wiki entry for it.
Torque Game Engine Advanced Wiki Entry
#4
www.garagegames.com/blogs/58109/13045
06/27/2007 (4:54 am)
Tim has a point just checkout these TGEA screen shotswww.garagegames.com/blogs/58109/13045
#5
If you have played half life2 the physics are amazing. The way the player can interact with almost everything in the world is amazing. With an experienced c++ programmer, is editing torque to do what half life 2 can do a hard thing?
06/27/2007 (5:57 am)
Is it safe to say with the proper knowledge its possible to mod torques engine code to do everything the sourceSDK can do?If you have played half life2 the physics are amazing. The way the player can interact with almost everything in the world is amazing. With an experienced c++ programmer, is editing torque to do what half life 2 can do a hard thing?
#6
You do realize that even the best engine in the world can only take you so far, the rest (and it's a huge void) is up to you.
A typical commercial fps game requires a huge, talented team with years of experience in various fields, a huge budget, lots of time, blood, sweat and tears, a whole lot of patience and a little bit of luck. Even all that doesn't guarantee you success.
06/27/2007 (6:28 am)
Possible, extremely difficult, time consuming and highly unlikely though.You do realize that even the best engine in the world can only take you so far, the rest (and it's a huge void) is up to you.
A typical commercial fps game requires a huge, talented team with years of experience in various fields, a huge budget, lots of time, blood, sweat and tears, a whole lot of patience and a little bit of luck. Even all that doesn't guarantee you success.
#7
Today's typical FPS is light years beyond Doom or Wolfenstein 3D, and does require a highly skilled team to reproduce what you see on the shelves today. One suggestion would be to not make a typical game, but try and make something simple and new, thus getting recognition and experience. With that kind of result, building or joining a team would start to get easier.
It should also be mentioned that paying for the TGE license gives you access to resources and forums that will greatly aid your development, which are otherwise unavailable to non-licensed members.
Btw, Edward, careful with throwing around the term "Fanboy," as it usually has a negative connotation and could be perceived as an insult. Possibly derailing a good thread from the very first reply is counter-productive.
06/27/2007 (6:46 am)
Great point Tim. Newcomers to game development are in for a quite a bit of work if they approach their projects hoping to make a "typical commercial FPS," regardless of the engine they pick.Today's typical FPS is light years beyond Doom or Wolfenstein 3D, and does require a highly skilled team to reproduce what you see on the shelves today. One suggestion would be to not make a typical game, but try and make something simple and new, thus getting recognition and experience. With that kind of result, building or joining a team would start to get easier.
It should also be mentioned that paying for the TGE license gives you access to resources and forums that will greatly aid your development, which are otherwise unavailable to non-licensed members.
Btw, Edward, careful with throwing around the term "Fanboy," as it usually has a negative connotation and could be perceived as an insult. Possibly derailing a good thread from the very first reply is counter-productive.
#8
06/27/2007 (7:05 am)
Alright thanks for the responses. I wouldnt say i regret buying torque but i do regret buying it now. I only plan to learn right now, and make my own games later on (using torque more than likely), but id eventualy end up buying torque so theres no real loss. (unless i never use the $400 of content packs i bought) 
#9
Source took many years to complete, which included a complete reworking of the Havok source code integrated into the Source source code. To do that, you would require a huge Havok source license rather than a SDK license to Havok or Aegia, etc.
It would not just be hard. It would be a monumental undertaking to replicate it exactly, especially in a networked situation. You would be pairing your team of brilliant minds against Valve's team of brilliant experts. It could be done, no doubt, but it would take a huge amount of work. It would be a bit more than "a hard thing".
If you do not want to make a commercial game and do not have angel investors with bottomless pockets, then modding Unreal or HL2 is a great way to work. Both are excellent engines with an extravagant price-tag.
06/27/2007 (9:18 am)
Quote:Is it safe to say with the proper knowledge its possible to mod torques engine code to do everything the sourceSDK can do?
If you have played half life2 the physics are amazing. The way the player can interact with almost everything in the world is amazing. With an experienced c++ programmer, is editing torque to do what half life 2 can do a hard thing?
Source took many years to complete, which included a complete reworking of the Havok source code integrated into the Source source code. To do that, you would require a huge Havok source license rather than a SDK license to Havok or Aegia, etc.
It would not just be hard. It would be a monumental undertaking to replicate it exactly, especially in a networked situation. You would be pairing your team of brilliant minds against Valve's team of brilliant experts. It could be done, no doubt, but it would take a huge amount of work. It would be a bit more than "a hard thing".
If you do not want to make a commercial game and do not have angel investors with bottomless pockets, then modding Unreal or HL2 is a great way to work. Both are excellent engines with an extravagant price-tag.
#10
06/27/2007 (1:32 pm)
Im not looking to duplicate the source engine. Im looking to do stupid simple things like implement crouch, prone, weapn recoil, destructable objects (glass, wood crates, ect.., no full buildings), objects you can pick up, bullets going through objects (IE if object is of xxx class and xx thinckness the bullet goes through with xx velosity reduction) . Some of these are very basic things you would expect torque to have built in. I cant imagine implementing these things would be hard, but if so im lost. 
Edward Darrington
Honestly I don't think there is an advantage. Some Torque fanboy will probably say different, but the Source code is written so much better than Torque's. So it seems to logically follow that it'd be better to learn from Source.
The only advantage to buying Torque is that you can build your standalone game with it. With Source you can just make mods.