Engines Suitable for A Space Sim
by Habib Karpal · in General Discussion · 07/24/2002 (12:08 pm) · 10 replies
I'm considering some engines for my upcoming project, but I want some advice before making a move first. The engine is a crucial part of the development process, and I don't think making one from scratch is feasible at all.
Keep in mind that the game will be a space simulation, for a number of reasons that I won't get into right now.
Torque
Can Torque be easily modified for zero gravity (I'm guessing yes) and more complex AI? What about implementing new physics? The terrain engine would have to go unused or modified into some sort of infinite sphere as well.
Pros: Great community, solid license.
Cons: Not suitable for space sim? $100, but that's not bad at all.
Freespace 2
Obviously this is the first choice to come to mind, but I doubt I'll use it.
Pros: Already designed for space sims. Good graphics, good AA.
Cons: GPL; no money for the game. No known communities I've seen.
Unreal I
This is a last resort engine...
Pros: Free. Huge devolopment community.
Cons: GPL. Outdated renderer can't support more than 1000 polys in a given model, may be able to change but not worth the time.
Quake 2
Same as Unreal I.
Pros: Free. Even bigger community.
Cons: GPL, very outdated engine.
Crystal Space
Same as the above two.
Pros: Free. Big community, lots of tools for it. License allows for commercial use if code is released.
Cons: Text-based maps KILL performance, even on high-end machines. Very outdated renderer.
So at this point I'm definitely looking at Torque. If I only had the money to get it, I would have had it by now. But I expected to have a job this summer, and unfortunately that didn't work out. So I'm working for my parents (I'm 16.5 ;) and earning about $35/week which isn't bad for a teenager. I haven't been able to 'work' for them recently however, because my grandmother had chemotherapy and I had my wisdom teeth extracted...which is why I'm looking at the GPL/free engines.
Keep in mind that the game will be a space simulation, for a number of reasons that I won't get into right now.
Torque
Can Torque be easily modified for zero gravity (I'm guessing yes) and more complex AI? What about implementing new physics? The terrain engine would have to go unused or modified into some sort of infinite sphere as well.
Pros: Great community, solid license.
Cons: Not suitable for space sim? $100, but that's not bad at all.
Freespace 2
Obviously this is the first choice to come to mind, but I doubt I'll use it.
Pros: Already designed for space sims. Good graphics, good AA.
Cons: GPL; no money for the game. No known communities I've seen.
Unreal I
This is a last resort engine...
Pros: Free. Huge devolopment community.
Cons: GPL. Outdated renderer can't support more than 1000 polys in a given model, may be able to change but not worth the time.
Quake 2
Same as Unreal I.
Pros: Free. Even bigger community.
Cons: GPL, very outdated engine.
Crystal Space
Same as the above two.
Pros: Free. Big community, lots of tools for it. License allows for commercial use if code is released.
Cons: Text-based maps KILL performance, even on high-end machines. Very outdated renderer.
So at this point I'm definitely looking at Torque. If I only had the money to get it, I would have had it by now. But I expected to have a job this summer, and unfortunately that didn't work out. So I'm working for my parents (I'm 16.5 ;) and earning about $35/week which isn't bad for a teenager. I haven't been able to 'work' for them recently however, because my grandmother had chemotherapy and I had my wisdom teeth extracted...which is why I'm looking at the GPL/free engines.
#3
www.flipcode.com
www.gamedev.net
07/24/2002 (2:15 pm)
I'm sure there are many more 3d engines that would work for space sims. Have you researched on the web, using Google or other search engines? Also, check out:www.flipcode.com
www.gamedev.net
#4
07/24/2002 (3:06 pm)
Also try www.parsec.org, they are making a free space rpg, with an engine SDK.
#5
the license for the nebula Device is basically use it however you want to and you dont owe radon labs anything.
You can read more on it as well as see pics of the first nebula game Nomads thats coming to the Xbox on their website.
Radon Labs
-Tim aka Spock
07/24/2002 (5:07 pm)
There is also the Nebula Device which has the ability to do spherical ROAM terrain, you could create your planets with this and even have them the same size as they really would be....although that might require a bit of modification for something of that size...there is an article about it on gamasutra.com. This would allow the person to actually fly down to the planet and land and walk around on its surface. Even if you dont do this, the nebula device would still probably make a very nice space engine. It supports things like shaders and it has a nice particle and sky editors, so you could probably create some nice nebula effects in space. Personally I think the renderer looks better than all the engines you named. Now The Nebula Device is missing some things like the ability to render interiors (i.e. no BSP or anything like that) although some community projects are working on that and have some code done. You probably wont need interiors in a space game anyway.the license for the nebula Device is basically use it however you want to and you dont owe radon labs anything.
You can read more on it as well as see pics of the first nebula game Nomads thats coming to the Xbox on their website.
Radon Labs
-Tim aka Spock
#6
o_0
That engine's for real too! The license, in plain English says, "Use it for whatever, as long as you don't ask us for help."
Nebula Device it is. There are communities for it too!
If I don't get the "job" with GG as a designer (not lead designer) I'll be contributing my time to this.
Of course I'll look over the demo before I get too excited.
Thanks for the great link, Tim.
07/24/2002 (7:09 pm)
I know this seems l33tish, but all I have to say is:o_0
That engine's for real too! The license, in plain English says, "Use it for whatever, as long as you don't ask us for help."
Nebula Device it is. There are communities for it too!
If I don't get the "job" with GG as a designer (not lead designer) I'll be contributing my time to this.
Of course I'll look over the demo before I get too excited.
Thanks for the great link, Tim.
#7
Jeezus.
Still, graphics aren't everything. I'd rather have Freespace 2's physics and Gothic's AI than Doom III's graphics. But, graphics generate hype. And hype generates money. And I suppose that the programming team could concentrate solely on coding AI and physics while updating the graphics occasionally...in any case, the project is still very young.
07/24/2002 (7:24 pm)
I mean look at how beautiful the renderer is...Jeezus.
Still, graphics aren't everything. I'd rather have Freespace 2's physics and Gothic's AI than Doom III's graphics. But, graphics generate hype. And hype generates money. And I suppose that the programming team could concentrate solely on coding AI and physics while updating the graphics occasionally...in any case, the project is still very young.
#8
07/24/2002 (10:08 pm)
I've tried Nebula for a couple of weeks before I decided to use TGE... the renderer is nice, but I didn't even get collision detection to work... there is much more work involved to get nearly the same results as you get from TGE "out-of-the-box"... and the GG community is more active and responsive than the Nebula groups IMHO... anyhow, if you are patient enough and got a bunch of good programmers, it can be worth the effort, I think... good luck with your project! And it's true, it's hard to beat *that* license... ;-)
#9
-Tim aka Spock
07/24/2002 (10:38 pm)
Steve: If you decide to use it, I know another person that is also...maybe we could share information as I also am thinking about using it. Let me know if your interested. -Tim aka Spock
#10
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsscp/
As far as Torque and space games are concerned:
http://www.maxgaming.net/~btechlore/friendlyfire/SSC-Skyflash.jpg
http://www.maxgaming.net/~btechlore/friendlyfire/videos.zip
And some generic shots in the thread:
http://forums.shatteredstar.com/user-cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000120
I used Torque to QUICKLY do a demo, using FS ships and graphics here:
http://mgostudio.infinology.com/downloads/friendlyfire/FSForever.zip
07/25/2002 (12:46 pm)
Freespace2 can't be used for a commercial game, but there is a community around it:http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsscp/
As far as Torque and space games are concerned:
http://www.maxgaming.net/~btechlore/friendlyfire/SSC-Skyflash.jpg
http://www.maxgaming.net/~btechlore/friendlyfire/videos.zip
And some generic shots in the thread:
http://forums.shatteredstar.com/user-cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000120
I used Torque to QUICKLY do a demo, using FS ships and graphics here:
http://mgostudio.infinology.com/downloads/friendlyfire/FSForever.zip
Torque 3D Owner Phil Carlisle
Phil.