Question RE: Torque Game Engine & XNA (Xbox360 homebrew dev)
by Andrew M. · in Torque Game Engine · 05/29/2007 (8:54 pm) · 7 replies
Hi all,
Sorry - im a little of a n00b when it comes to doing 'indie' game dev (have worked in commercial games for years on the art side) so i could use some help here...
Just curious (and a bit confused) -- but can you use Torque Game Engine to build XNA games for use on the Xbox 360? And if so, how exactly?
From what i understand you have to use C# to build XNA games - but doesnt Torque Game Engine use C++ ( i believe thats what i read somewhere?)
so how exactly do you make games for Xb360 using the Torque Game Engines (TGE and TGEA) - it appears you can do it , judging by the feature walkthroughs in the demo.
if anyone can help me out here, it would be much appreciated.
thanks!
-a
Sorry - im a little of a n00b when it comes to doing 'indie' game dev (have worked in commercial games for years on the art side) so i could use some help here...
Just curious (and a bit confused) -- but can you use Torque Game Engine to build XNA games for use on the Xbox 360? And if so, how exactly?
From what i understand you have to use C# to build XNA games - but doesnt Torque Game Engine use C++ ( i believe thats what i read somewhere?)
so how exactly do you make games for Xb360 using the Torque Game Engines (TGE and TGEA) - it appears you can do it , judging by the feature walkthroughs in the demo.
if anyone can help me out here, it would be much appreciated.
thanks!
-a
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#2
There are two major paths to the 360:
XNA, either with or without Torque X: through XNA/GSE and the Creators Club (as mentioned above), Microsoft has made it rather simple for anyone to develop a game in C#, and then deploy it to a retail 360. You can sell your c# game on Windows (it works there too obviously), but you cannot currently sell on 360.
TGE-A--C++: Torque Game Engine and TGE-Advanced are by nature cross platform engines (please, no comments from the peanut gallery about TGE-A and it's current lack of an OpenGL device--that's not what I'm getting at!), and we have a concept called a platform layer. You make your game above the platform layer, and your game is therefore basically platform agnostic--it doesn't care what it runs on.
As Dodongo describes, we have a platform layer available to qualified developers (basically, MS approved and have access to a dev kit for the 360), so if you make your game with TGE-A and take into consideration design issues (safe areas of the screen, color saturation issues on NTSC output devices, GUI interaction with no mouse or keyboard, etc), and the game is exciting enough to MS to qualify for a production slot and dev kit, business deals are worked out for the 360 platform layer from us.
Long story short: if you want to sell games for the 360, you should make your game in TGE-A, prove to MS it's worth a distribution slot, and use the platform layer from us to port to the 360. If you just want to see your game on the 360, and/or are willing to bet that MS plans on eventually allowing people to sell C# games made with XNA on the 360 platform, then go with XNA/Torque X.
There are questions to follow up on regarding your game type (Torque X is currently 2D only, but the 3D layers are in development, etc), and other tech/skillset issues to think about, but that's the setup in a nutshell.
05/30/2007 (1:57 am)
Dodongo has it mostly correct--some of the details (pricing) aren't there, but that's the least of your concerns right now I would suggest!There are two major paths to the 360:
XNA, either with or without Torque X: through XNA/GSE and the Creators Club (as mentioned above), Microsoft has made it rather simple for anyone to develop a game in C#, and then deploy it to a retail 360. You can sell your c# game on Windows (it works there too obviously), but you cannot currently sell on 360.
TGE-A--C++: Torque Game Engine and TGE-Advanced are by nature cross platform engines (please, no comments from the peanut gallery about TGE-A and it's current lack of an OpenGL device--that's not what I'm getting at!), and we have a concept called a platform layer. You make your game above the platform layer, and your game is therefore basically platform agnostic--it doesn't care what it runs on.
As Dodongo describes, we have a platform layer available to qualified developers (basically, MS approved and have access to a dev kit for the 360), so if you make your game with TGE-A and take into consideration design issues (safe areas of the screen, color saturation issues on NTSC output devices, GUI interaction with no mouse or keyboard, etc), and the game is exciting enough to MS to qualify for a production slot and dev kit, business deals are worked out for the 360 platform layer from us.
Long story short: if you want to sell games for the 360, you should make your game in TGE-A, prove to MS it's worth a distribution slot, and use the platform layer from us to port to the 360. If you just want to see your game on the 360, and/or are willing to bet that MS plans on eventually allowing people to sell C# games made with XNA on the 360 platform, then go with XNA/Torque X.
There are questions to follow up on regarding your game type (Torque X is currently 2D only, but the 3D layers are in development, etc), and other tech/skillset issues to think about, but that's the setup in a nutshell.
#3
I've been pretty familiar with what goes into making games via XNA for a bit now, but just never understood exactly how one would go about making XNA games using TGE or TGEA. Your reponses have definitely made that much clearer for me now.
I've been planning to make a 3D game for play on the Xbox 360 (and maybe PC) -which at the moment I'm not concerned with selling to the public. This is just something of a 'side project' that a group of friends and I (all of us work professionally in commercial game dev) want to take on for fun (though after going further into R&D, its not looking so fun afterall!! haha) . So yeah -- this kind of puts a big damper on our plans for the moment....
It's a shame TorqueX isnt fully developed yet. I would love to be able to use its upcoming 3D abilities to make XNA games for play on my Xb360 right now. Hrm.. :\
I know this is a GG / Torque forum - but i've recently looked at Blade3D (originally known as XNA Magic) -- which is still in beta , and seems to be geared exclusively toward creating games for XNA. My question - are there any others out there - or is this the only one?
My friends and I very much want to get started on our game asap - but being that our spare time is limited, and this project is ''just for fun'' and not meant for retail -- It would really help to know of what might be the best route to go for creating a 3D game for play on a Xbox 360 via the XNA framework. So far, our team consists of two artists and two programmers - and i really, really doubt any of us want to start from scratch (engine wise) just to make the game for use on the 360.
so yeah, any help in that regard would be sweet.
thanks again
-a
05/30/2007 (2:52 am)
Thanks both of you. lots of valuable info here. Most of it pretty disappointing tho - to be honest.I've been pretty familiar with what goes into making games via XNA for a bit now, but just never understood exactly how one would go about making XNA games using TGE or TGEA. Your reponses have definitely made that much clearer for me now.
I've been planning to make a 3D game for play on the Xbox 360 (and maybe PC) -which at the moment I'm not concerned with selling to the public. This is just something of a 'side project' that a group of friends and I (all of us work professionally in commercial game dev) want to take on for fun (though after going further into R&D, its not looking so fun afterall!! haha) . So yeah -- this kind of puts a big damper on our plans for the moment....
It's a shame TorqueX isnt fully developed yet. I would love to be able to use its upcoming 3D abilities to make XNA games for play on my Xb360 right now. Hrm.. :\
I know this is a GG / Torque forum - but i've recently looked at Blade3D (originally known as XNA Magic) -- which is still in beta , and seems to be geared exclusively toward creating games for XNA. My question - are there any others out there - or is this the only one?
My friends and I very much want to get started on our game asap - but being that our spare time is limited, and this project is ''just for fun'' and not meant for retail -- It would really help to know of what might be the best route to go for creating a 3D game for play on a Xbox 360 via the XNA framework. So far, our team consists of two artists and two programmers - and i really, really doubt any of us want to start from scratch (engine wise) just to make the game for use on the 360.
so yeah, any help in that regard would be sweet.
thanks again
-a
#4
is it possible to use something like M-OGRE (Managed OGRE 3D - for those using .Net languages ..) to make a 3d game for use with XNA? I figure since it is based on .Net / C# it should be possible yes? Sorry if this is dumb, im an artist first and foremost so most of this is a bit over me head :P
05/30/2007 (3:56 pm)
Quick question -- again, sorry i understand this is a GG / Torque forum - but i was wondering if someone here is knowledgable in this area and could give me a quick answer on this...is it possible to use something like M-OGRE (Managed OGRE 3D - for those using .Net languages ..) to make a 3d game for use with XNA? I figure since it is based on .Net / C# it should be possible yes? Sorry if this is dumb, im an artist first and foremost so most of this is a bit over me head :P
#5
05/30/2007 (4:25 pm)
For windows c# game, sure. If it isn't XNA or the compact framework however, it won't do anything on the 360.
#7
as stephen said... for a windows xna game.. it would work.. but not for xbox..
as the xbox 360 has to download from the internet the xbox version of the xna runtime which is given to you with the membership of the creators club...
so if the xbox only has the xna runtime and not the complete net framework.. is unable to run anything that it currently does not support...
you could do it just for fun... but the game has to be made using strictly xna .. and only those with capability to log in with your creators club membership on xbox live and that have downloaded the runtime and the game from your pc to the xbox console hard drive will be able to run your game..
Cheers
05/30/2007 (5:48 pm)
To run a game on xbox 360... via xna.. it needs to be programmed exclusively on the xna framework and nothing outside of it.. like ordinary net framework...as stephen said... for a windows xna game.. it would work.. but not for xbox..
as the xbox 360 has to download from the internet the xbox version of the xna runtime which is given to you with the membership of the creators club...
so if the xbox only has the xna runtime and not the complete net framework.. is unable to run anything that it currently does not support...
you could do it just for fun... but the game has to be made using strictly xna .. and only those with capability to log in with your creators club membership on xbox live and that have downloaded the runtime and the game from your pc to the xbox console hard drive will be able to run your game..
Cheers
Torque Owner DodongoXP
torque game engine .. cant make xna games ... the under construction torque x..will be able to....but that can be too far away from been finished...
to make xna games for the xbox 360.. you need to pay 100 bucks yearly fee for a xna creator club membership ..and only you can play those games.. unless the people who plays it can login with your xna creators club account.. there is no support for distributing your homebrew xna xbox games ( read the xna official site for more info )
yes xna games are imade using C#, done via xna game studio express installed on top of visual C# 2005 express edition only..
yes.. torque is made in C++ and as graphics system use ( TGE : OpenGL ) and (TGEA: DirectX 9.0c) and there is no way to convert it to xna.....torque is an absolutely different thing from xna for the moment
to make xbox 360 games with torque.. you need
1.- a deal with microsoft and a license of the xbox 360 dev kit.. for a huge amount of money... ( something like 60,000 dollars)
2.- TGEA.. and a deal with garage games for the Torque 360 license (xbox 360 portable version of TGEA).. that i think its very expensive too
3.- a team of extremely experienced programmers able to develop and port a TGEA game to the xbox dev kit torque version in a decent time frame
please correct if i am wrong.. or terribly wrong hahaha...
but making something for the xbox 360 with torque is not an easy thing...
hope this helps
Cheers!!