Newbie MissionEd question

#1 Just from experience, level design is changing so much that in a few years there will be very few "level designers" left.

Level designers are the lazy 3d artists. They get to sit around, not really do much artwork and just slap some stuff together that looks and plays good. An ideal beginner job in the industry, mainly since it'd seem to be so fun. They're not going to be going anywhere, but they will have to change... a lot.

Many (Unreal 2 and probably Doom 3, as well as the vast majority of non-mod games and all console games) have levels created in high end 3d art programs. Things like Maya or 3d Studio. These programs cost an arm and a leg, so they're not something that hobbyists can (legally) have access too unless they've got a lot of money to burn or incredible dedication... and a lot of money. With the focus going away from map/bsp based creations to static meshes, the "standard" level designer is dying.

Torque is a great tool, and the mission editor is amazing. Buying it couldn't be a mistake, and it has to be one of the easiest to use but most complete editors I've used. You'll need to use Worldcraft to make the actual buildings, but the Torque editor basically allows you to place everything where you want it and to resize, turn, and combine most everything else in-game.

Now a bit more on your dream to be a level designer.

I'm not trying to scare you away from doing it, just realize that it's not what all the hobbyist level designers might think it is. In high school and earlier level design was my only game-development passion. Was fun, and I planned on making it into a career. In my senior year I did a project based around it, and learned a lot of things. I got to go down to a few local game development companies for a day or two to see how things worked and what it was like to be a level designer.

What I saw didn't scare me. Quite the contrary: it looked like fun.

The problem was in the statistics. So many people thinking they're good level designers, but so few people hiring for it. Wow, a few guys got temporary contract jobs because of some levels they made for Counter-Strke. I'm willing to bet they'll be out of the industry within three years. Why? You think Counter-Strike clones will be popular in a few years? Even more worrisome was the fact that level design wasn't a talent that had any use outside of games. Don't tell me architecture... no one will pay you unless you have real knowledge of realistic architecture and not just the "realistic enough" kind of stuff you see in most games today.

I haven't given up on level design, I still do it often as a hobby. For torque, and now some in Warcraft 3. It's a fun hobby, but I realized it's not where the money is nor where the job security is. Sure, the games industry won't be falling apart anytime soon but I can guarantee finding a job as a programmer would be much easier to do than a level designer if I had to switch industries. Even inside the industry, programmers seem to have a better chance at getting a job and keeping it for a longer period of time.

If you're still set on it, start getting some skills in 3d modeling or find a legal way to use Maya or 3d Studio Max. It's only a few years away before it'll be expected that level designers make their own static meshes for their level. If you polish your skills in both level design (not really too hard to polish), and 3d modeling I'm sure you'll be able to pick up some decent contract work as others start realizing that knowledge of Qoole or Worldcraft isn't the only thing that game developers want to see.

#2 Thanks Matt,

That's exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I do actually have a fair bit of 3Dmax experience which includes objects for Dromed though no landscapes. The thing about using programs like Dromed is that you get into the one program does all headspace. I don't doubt for a second that moving from the hobby level to the professional level will be a difficult one, but I do feel I have alot of skills under my belt. Some of my levels so far include custom photographed textures, custom objects, custom sound and music(being formally trained in audio engineering), and getting the object systems working - and working reliably at that, as well as briefing animations. I don't know what the industry is like really, perhaps the division of labour is such that level designers don't need to do most of these things - but in my own humble experience nothing about level designing has been easy.

I think though that what you say makes alot of sense particularly with regards to job security - and perhaps it wouldn't hurt for me to learn a little C++. It just hasn't been part of the imediate plan.

Anyways, I really appreciate your thoughts and thank you :)

#3 Hi Marcus,

I agree with Matt on some aspects. About 3D modeling, I myself am familiar with Maya, and I think 3ds max is also good. For 2D arts, I think photoshop is a good choice.

Though I admit that Torque Mission Editor is very excellent, I think you shoud not miss the newest WarCraft III world editor.

I think the best way to learn is to read some books first, and join some studio or game dev co. to access these products and have a try.

There can be miracles when you believe.

#4 Thanks Jane,

I will have a look at the Warcraft editor. I think in retrospect if what you and Matt are saying is true then perhaps I should spend more time with 3Ds max and concentrate on building a solid portfolio there.

Cheers!

#5 Hi Marcus,

I just memorized WildTangent. Some of my friends developed games with it, and its editor is really powerful. I suggest you also take a look at the WildTangent SDK and WT Studio, it's cool. And you can download them free from the WT's website, www.wildtangent.com. Good luck.

#6 I'll agree on one part and disagree on another.

I don't believe the industry is leaning towards more professional level designing solutions, such as 3DS Max. In fact, I don't think the industry has ever leaned towards that sort of solution. 3DS Max is really not meant to create a Quake 3 level for instance, and is really not good at it either.

One of the big traits of good games today is the ability to modify those games, so that the players of these games can extend the life of that product by producing their own content. So, if there was no other way to make a new level for said game, other than have a copy of 3DS Max floating around somewhere, then these players are out of luck because they won't be able to afford such an overpriced utility. But, if we can produce a level editor for this said game, even build it into the game itself, then we have a much better bet that a lot more people will begin to modify and make new content.

Take Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, Unreal, and Unreal Tourney, Tribes, and Tribes 2 for example. Heck, even take Doom III for example. All of these games are highly modifiable, some in different ways then others. But they all have one thing in common. In-game or seperate level editors. DOOM III is especially interesting because it will mark the first time iD and John Carmack of opted to use an in-game level editor.

I think in-game editors have a particular and very huge advantage to seperate level editors. If you can make the game cross platform, then the entire level editing software that is built into the game is cross platform as well, Tribes 2 as an example. This is why I think DOOM III is having an in-game level editor as well. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing in-game character and model editors soon because I feel that if your game is meant to be cross platform, then you can potentially save huge amounts of time in cross platform development if you just simply build all the tools into the game itself.

Secondly, I think as more and more games that come out, that you can modify, then eventually you get a pool, a community if you will, of modders and artists and so forth that are very professional in their manorisms of producing a level because they have been exposed to it from game to game and over, what now is, a very large sum of time. This is why you are starting to see more and more groups of people joining professional companies because of their ability to produce a level. But since level designing as a whole is becoming more and more of a profession, I dont think it necessarily means that you'll start seeing more and more levels produced on 3DS MAX.

#7 Well, it's been 7 years since your post Marcus, how's it all working out for you? ;)