Bootcamp

#1 I've notice that there hasn't been a bootcamp on the TGE or TGEA for Indies in a long time.

#2 I will like to think that "BootCamp" teach you both based on what I read so far.I am new to "TGE" too infact recently purchased "Indie License V.1.5" couple of weeks ago.The fact that it cost so much $$$$,plus one have to travel(for most users any way),expenses can be a trip....unless you are loaded.If they don't have "BootCamp" for the Indies,what's the point?.

#3 I would recomment picking-up books from the store.
They are priceless to help you starting with TGE.

#4 I agree,as I picked up this book "3D Game Programming All In One" wth CD by:Kenneth Finney.Probably gonna take me ages to get the grasp of all the stuff I have read so far.Got to start somewhere....right?.I can always post questions here in the forum for assistance,I hope.

#5 Ya the reason i thought bootcamp might not teach you how to use torque is because its only for 3 days. How could you learn torque in 3 days.

#6 You are right, no way in any world is it possible to learn 'Torque Engine plus all the bells/whistles" in 3-days.I was thinking this is a 3-months deal(I suppose the "BootCamp" I am talking about is the advanced training?) where you get trained and at the end you grasp some key knowledge of how to use the Engine.I guess I got it all wrong.......no way in the world a 3-day deal really do much;especially for a beginner or Indie developer.

#7 www.garagegames.com/products/training/

Quote:
Torque Boot Camp will teach you:

* How the Torque Simulation operatesfrom object processing and communication to smart referencing and management of every object in the simulation
* Detailed specifics of the capabilities, uses, and expandability of Torque Networking including the move management system, control object capabilities and techniques, object ghosting and updating, as well as remote procedure calls between client server
* In-depth understanding of the Torque Object Hierarchy from the highest root classes down to the most fully featured child classes such as Player, Vehicle, and more
* Design and implementation strategies based upon a holistic understanding of proven methodologies for Torque development
* Many other critical systems and features of Torque to give your projects a strong edge over the competition

#8 So then why would someone pay $3000 just to go and see what you can do with torque.
I guess il just have to go to the colledges listed

#9 OK...Cool:http://www.garagegames.com/products/training/
1) 3-day training @~ $4k?...3-days?,that's a lot of greens for say a biginner who may or may not really understand.I said this because some of my friends(programmers) who used Torque Engine V1.4 stressed that it's not an Engine you(as a beginner) can easily grasp.From my readings so far....how in the world can a beginner get loaded that fast (3-days)?.The reality is after the 3-day training(unless you guys give out some handouts in a 3-ring-binder full of tutorials,sample scripts....),one still have to go and learn just to get confortable using Torque.

#10 I still would like to see an online courseware type of education option.

#11 Torque Boot Camps are not designed for beginning developers, but are focused at commercial developers that are very familiar with game development, but simply need to be brought up to speed on Torque as quickly as possible.

We focused on the theories behind the major systems Torque provides, primarily learning the "whys" and "wheres" instead of the "hows".

We've had a roughly 98% satisfaction rate over the last 2 years, from commercial game studios through indies to NASA and other "serious games" attendees.

#12 Wow man....98% satisfaction rate.....sweet!. So basically you are telling me "Indies" are not serious enogh or qualified to attend these 3-day training apart from the $$$$ thing?.Indies of today are more or less serious commercial developers of tomorrow;yet almost all of the forum for every licensed Engine have the same mentality of making the Indies look like second grade instead of the other way around.That's not so cool to the Indies...don't you think so?.I personally think "Indies" should be involve more so learning the "whys" and "wheres" instead of the "hows" online all year round.We should at least by now (after all these years) expect some one to put together a package that motivate not discourage Indies from making that final big step.

#13 I didn't say a word about "indies look like second grade", or anything else along those lines!

We've had quite a few indie developers pay the commercial price, as well as sponsoring an indie focused boot camp yearly (normally in the fall).

I personally think you may be confusing "new to game development" with "indie". The boot camps are aimed towards those developers that have both the experience and resources to best benefit from an extremely intensive, onsite 3 day course.

The TGB boot camps are both priced for and aimed at people that have very little to no game development experience, and/or are interested in learning how our 2D product line (which is aimed in some ways at the "new to game development" market), and make a quite valuable introduction to both game development and Torque Technology at a quite reasonable price.

#14 Thanks for making me understand.Confusing "new to game development" with "indie"?...wow!.I don't think so man.However,it's all good.Thanks again for the info.I will do my very best to keep pushing forward with what I can do regardless....and who knows,the resources might be available down the road....when that happen,I will think "BootCamp".

#15 @Ahmad ok, let's dissect what you said:

Quote:
I guess I got it all wrong.......no way in the world a 3-day deal really do much;especially for a beginner or Indie developer

Quote:
OK...Cool:http://www.garagegames.com/products/training/
1) 3-day training @~ $4k?...3-days?,that's a lot of greens for say a biginner who may or may not really understand.I said this because some of my friends(programmers) who used Torque Engine V1.4 stressed that it's not an Engine you(as a beginner) can easily grasp

Based on your reinforcement of the word "beginner", as well as your comment on the price (which you mis-quoted by the way, it's a 5 day program if you pay the $4k), I responded with:

Quote:
Torque Boot Camps are not designed for beginning developers, but are focused at commercial developers that are very familiar with game development, but simply need to be brought up to speed on Torque as quickly as possible.

Then your next post was:

Quote:
Wow man....98% satisfaction rate.....sweet!. So basically you are telling me "Indies" are not serious enogh or qualified to attend these 3-day training apart from the $$$$ thing?.

Note that you no longer say anything about "beginner", but only say Indie, and attempt to say that my post implied "indies aren't qualified for boot camps", which is a misrepresentation of what I said.

#16 I am an independent game developer, but I am not a beginner. I have been through a Torque boot camp, and I found it extremely valuable. It was expensive, but sometimes serious commitment requires serious money. I learned more about TGE/A in four days than I did in two months of reading forums/TDN and reading two of the three Torque books. (Game Programmers Guide and Advanced 3D) While the documentation continues to get better all the time, the boot camp provided me direct access to the developers of the engine, which meant invaluable insight and fast, specific answers to my questions. There are plenty of options for those who cannot afford it, but if you need to know Torque to get paid, it is worth it.

#17 I am an educator, with a significant background in the game development industry, and I found the Bootcamp (this previous January) to be extremely valuable. It was not a "how-to" seminar/lab, but rather an extensive look at the logic, structure, and organization of TGE overall. We did some fractional coding, to illustrate the client-server relationship and process, but that was it.

We are now teaching TGE in one class, and will be expanding to three classes in the fall. Participating in the Bootcamp has aided us significantly in teaching the course, especially to savy, motivated students who are willing to figure out the particulars of TorqueScript but need guidance and direction on the larger, more conceptual elements.

#18 Stephen:
OK!,it's a 5-day deal for $4K.cool!
I like to dissect too.

"Based on your reinforcement of the word "beginner", as well as your comment on the price (which you mis-quoted by the way, it's a 5 day program if you pay the $4k)"

As for the word "beginner",that was an example if you read carefully.I said:

"that's a lot of greens for say a beginner who may or may not really understand."
-----
A misrepresentation of what you said?......na,na,na!.

"We've had a roughly 98% satisfaction rate over the last 2 years, from commercial game studios through indies to NASA and other "serious games" attendees"

unless you are a magician (even then you don't know)there is no way you can tell how serious any "beginner/indie" is or will be.My point is why make the above statement sounds like for example;"....other serious games attendees"?. There are people out there learning how to put together a complete game package just for fun and (can produce commercial pakages with a little assistance)have no funds to attend any of these gatherings/trainings;plus this so-called "serious games developer" mentality is like a block to these group of people mentally.There must be another way to communicate with biginners/indies out there, in such a way that encourage not discourage (in anyway shape or form).With little assistance everybody is and can be serious to produce a commercial Game package.Nobody is saying train everyone for free;encouragement packages will help millions out there starving to learn how the games are put together but can't afford to pay.
1) Create a new form of online programs and or downloadable packages; where all can access from around the world.
2) Break the programs down to categories with affordable prices,so people can choose to purchase the whole learning programs or sellect from each category,
3) This will make more users wanna get in to the "serious zone" ......that's all I am saying.Yeah!,I know,I have a wild way of saying it.

#19 Ahmad why are you being such an ass? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out - If you are a person or company that is willing or already have invested in the torque platform to make a product than chances are you are willing to invest the money for the bootcamp courses. It doesn't matter if you are an "indie" or not.

And if you are a beginner (notice how I spelled beginner, you might want to copy and paste that) than you can start reading the various documentation to get up to speed and once you are comfortable enough you can attend boot camp.

#20 @ Tom,
I wish you guys are located in NY.......Chicago, IL is way out of my hood.
BootCamp is good for those who can afford it regardless of how serious and I agree it will aid anyone significantly.

@ Frank,
Thanks for the feedback....I hear you loud and clear.