Why recent review on TGE 1.5 so bad?

#1 There were a number of optimizations in the latest versions, I believe these increased performace for some users while some of these caused a few unnexpected side effects that will most likely be ironed out soon enough through support from the Garage as well as our awesome community members.

#2 I take it you mean Webgovernor's.

He counted topics on the bugs forum, which includes posts from the time it was created from v12 to 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5. Still, his number is extremely low, as with any large scale project. If he wants to talk bug count, he should talk to the bug squashers at Epic to see that his numbers are rather low, even on an engine in the hundreds of thousands of dollars price-range. The bigger the project, the more potential (and real bugs). The more users, the more the impact of how you fix them is important.

I'm not really sure what he is talking about with the editor crashes. I haven't had any such issues on a Tablet PC, a G5, Mac Mini, Dell desktop, or Sony Vaio UX180P. The tablet and UX180P have very strange and sketchy graphics chipsets and drivers. Plus the touch-sensitivity and tabletization in Windows can make a number of programs do strange things. For example, the vast majority Blitz3D application has to have advanced text features turned off on the Tablet. The UX180P (even with the Tablet version of XP installed) does not, but it's funky little screen can do some very strange things to your graphical applications. The Radeon 9800 in the G5 and the Radeon X1300 in the Dell are somewhat par, as is the crap video in the Mac Mini. And I've been extensively using 1.5 since release. There are bugs, don't get me wrong. There are quirks. But nothing as jarringly stopping as he notes.

The community commentary sounds like he had a rather bad experience on the forums, which is too bad, really.

Even through Frank Skilton's criticism is harsher in context, it is a better over-all review, clearly outlining his problems with the engine in comparison to others that he uses. I'm still wondering about the editors crashing the engine that is mentioned. I do know that there were some problems with waterblocks not showing up (or having working handles in-editor), but that was fixed.

I've had a great experience with 1.5(.1) and am using it for a current project (in conjunction with TGB Pro). I hope that Webgovernor has moved to an engine that is more oriented to how he works (say Unity, Lawmaker, C4, etc). I never like to see projects fall off the radar because of engine issues. Perhaps he is still using TGE since he talks of squashing bugs.

#3 Well 1.5 is good, because MK is available for it. as well as AFX. so if you want your world to look like this. 1.5 is a good choice.


just something i whipped up quickly.

#4 Thats cool iw ish could hurry up and upgrade!

#5 Wow. Nice stuff T squared. Is the TGEA or what? If its TGE how did you get it to look like that?

#6 Its the Moderizarion Kit which is free :) and its available for tge 1.5 & 1.5.1. I just installed it last night on my 1.5.1. Oh yeh I beleive its cross platform also.

edit: MK Link

#7 It proves that 1.5.x could create nice graphics,
but does not prove it is error-free.

David Blake does not have CRASH problem, Webgovernor and George Patterson does.

There is another thread "Torque Keeps Crashing" (by George Patterson) which is left unsolved.

Once crashing occurs, nothing can be done???

#8

Quote:Once crashing occurs, nothing can be done???

It depends on what has been done that is causing the crash. I've never had a problem with torque crashing unless I did something, or my graphics driver was old.
There really isn't anything majorly wrong with tge 1.5.1 I use it without problems. Every program has it's bugs. If only 2 out of thousands of people have a crash problem, it's not the engines fault, so don't blame the engine.

#9 @Kai Norman
Its TGE 1.5 as i stated using mk.

#10 I decided to go and check out his complaints, I would disagree with the forums not being helpfull, there are times when I don't get a response to certain questions but more often then not I get an answer with in an hour or so from someone (often times david higgins).
But then again I'd disagree with his documentation statement saying it was great but there's been enough of those threads lately.
I have had many problems with TGE not in engine performance, has always run fine and only time I've gotten crashes is when I've put in buggy code or script myself. All my problems have been figureing out how to do things.
I really think an updated fps starter would help out newer people and those less experienced with coding a ton. Doors as someone on the complaint list mentioned on devmaster, melee that'd be a pretty standard modern day addition. throw a couple extra weapons in the starter.fps so people learn how to make it switch weapons and all that good stuff. I just think the starter.fps is lacking a lot. The engine itself is nice and works fine and as shown by people putting the mk can make the graphics amazing.

I just wish they'd take more stuff from the community and build it into the engine instead of making people refigure out how to add the custom stuff with each update. I've currently gone back to messing with tgb mainly for now as it is soo much easier to use and hopefully come back to tge after a couple projects and be able to figure out how to do some things I'd like to.

#11 Hey guys. I'd like to give a little of my own input on this subject.

Some bugs were introduced into 1.5.1 and we were disappointed in that as well. We are hard at work on 1.5.2 addressing these and other concerns and will release it when it is ready. I do want you to know that your complaints are valid and that they are taken to heart by myself and others.

The area I feel that GarageGames can use the most improvement in the QA/testing area is resources - namely time and people. This is something I want you to know that I am actively working on and I fully expect that the future QA situation at GG will improve by leaps and bounds in this area. Thanks.

#12 Sounds like what GG needs is some type of Volunteer Beta Tester program, pick 5 or 10 willing members from the community that already have a few years knowledge about Torque, and toss new products and updates at them for a few days before letting products out to the public.

I volunteer to beta test for GG, and i know all aspects of Torque, art creation, scripting and core programing. I have (nearly) all the time in the world, 98% of it spent at this computer.

#13 I just want to say to GG.com the money I spent on torque is the second best choice for money I've ever spent on software as far as !(time of enjoyment/dollars) right after the fallout 1&2 pack from walmart for $10 (and I'll still replay those games again If I can put Torque down for a while)

It has sharpened my coding skills, taught me hordes of lessons about graphic design, and I've made some good friends amongst the other members around here.

Sure there's some frustrating points in the journey of learnign all about a SDK, but thats what it is, it isnt a game, it isnt an 'easy button' to make a game (well maybe TGB is) but you're getting the framework to create nearly any kind of 3d program you can dream up.

Don't buy torque if you have problems checking your email, updating a driver, or are stifled at the thought of working at something(unless you know a guy that will in which case I take cash and credit), but If you're the kind of person that loves to tinker and tweak and learn, this is one of the most fun sandboxes you could ever find to play in for such an affordable price

I don't know who came up with the concept of the $100 game engine that kicked off this crazy place but thanks. Much Much Kudos

#14 Volunteerism, it's for Non-profit or Not-for-profit organizations, isn't it?? Isn't this a 'for pay' company; with payroll, benefits, etc...

Do the right thing. Get decent Beta Testers, period. Require 'Interns' to betaTest when/if they have nothing to do, forget running for snacks and coffee and 'ego-fluffing'. What better way to demonstrate genuine brand loyality? Find bugs, squash them...make the software unknockable.

Who does comprise the betaTeam??? Get up, stand up. Accept responsibility for the shape ANY/ALL released products that are currently 'for Sale'...and the current shape they're in. Period. Don't try to shift responsibility to the customer on this one...lol. Perhaps, the Beta Team, isn't quite 'cut out' for this type of 'work', eh?

Find people who have EXTREME powers of observation, and take notes.

Forget those who quip, "...this Rokz!", because they're the ones not paying close enough attention[easily dazzled by pretty water and shiny objects].

I can break anything; and find ways to do it...lol. But, 'volunteer', to do revenue generating work, HA..

Good Thread. From my perspective; I can see all sides of the issues raised and align myself with none. It, how we say, 'is what it is'....

#15 Worry not. We have no intention to press members of the community into non-paying service. Rest assured that if we need people with EXTREME powers of observation, we will...oh crap. I've got to go. Someone just walked by my desk with a set of car-keys on a fishing pole.

#16

Quote:
Require 'Interns' to betaTest when/if they have nothing to do, forget running for snacks and coffee and 'ego-fluffing'.

That never occurs at GarageGames. For one, interns are placed in very productive roles, and two, no one runs for snacks, coffee, or anything else.

For the price point of the product, what you are describing simply is not possible. If we tripled the price of the product, and had charged for upgrades for the last 5 years, maybe.

But we didn't--we provided (and still do) a very capable engine to indies at an extremely low cost point, and we continue to do so.

We've heard the issues (time and again!), and have restructured the cost breakdowns of our various products to slowly allow for the staffing that you mention, since it does appear that people are willing to pay more for what you are asking....we'll see how it works in the long run!

#17 Hah, I just had visions of a GG Press Gang running around in pirate outfits and rounding up loitering posters who should really be chasing car keys...

#18 GG already has a volunteer beta group.
The thing about the 1.5x bugs is that, I'm guessing, they listened to everyone's complaints and rushed Constructor out the door. Constructor has made huge improvements over the months, thanks in part to the testers. In fact, several products have been thrown their way and they helped find bugs. I imagine the Constructor team is feeling pretty much "damned if we do; damned if we don't" right about now.

Of course the down side to it is that is volunteer and as such is totally up to each person's decision as to test a product or not.

#19 Hi Kenneth Holst,

1. What is the progress of the 1.5x bug fix?
2. Any new comments on www.devmaster.com

Thanks in advance.

#20 I've done many many months of research on game engines before i decided to go with tge. Through all of that, i felt that the community was more key to the product then the product itself has lent. Tge is a good engine, but the facts about dts and prior to constructors release difs getting in the engine was and to some extent still is truly a nightmare. This i think is more lack of tools and documentation then anything.

Also true is that the engine is buggy and somewhat slower then some of the more modern performing engines. TGEA imho is ultra buggy and shader implement is less then stupendous. Still this engine at it's core and it's community is by far one of the best in the world. But, if it's policy to offer the engine without enough tools (especially dts tools) in the future, i think there are much better options for much quicker more seamless object integration in just about any other engine.