TGB vs TGBX clarification...
by Sangwoo Hong · in Torque X 2D · 04/16/2007 (11:47 am) · 13 replies
I'm trying to understand the relationship between TGB and Torque X so I can make an informed decision before putting down my green back.
What exactly is the connection between TGB and Torque X? Is "TBGX" just an export module that writes some files in a format that XNA applications can read? Why does purchasing TGB get one access to TDN but downloading Torque X does not when from what I understand TGB is not necessary to work with Torque X. Am I mistaken here?
Then there is the tread here in the forums saying that code done in TGB will all need to be rewritten in C#. So does this mean Torque X no longer supports Torquescript? Does this mean I for instance access input devices using XNA calls directly instead of using torque constructs? If so, what exactly does Torque X provide? Layers? Tile sets? Camera controls?
I suppose in the end if I want to put up games on a 360 I have to learn C# and XNA. I would like to know how much of my prior Torque knowledge will be applicable after the move. I would also like to know if it would make sense to grab a book on C#...
phong.
What exactly is the connection between TGB and Torque X? Is "TBGX" just an export module that writes some files in a format that XNA applications can read? Why does purchasing TGB get one access to TDN but downloading Torque X does not when from what I understand TGB is not necessary to work with Torque X. Am I mistaken here?
Then there is the tread here in the forums saying that code done in TGB will all need to be rewritten in C#. So does this mean Torque X no longer supports Torquescript? Does this mean I for instance access input devices using XNA calls directly instead of using torque constructs? If so, what exactly does Torque X provide? Layers? Tile sets? Camera controls?
I suppose in the end if I want to put up games on a 360 I have to learn C# and XNA. I would like to know how much of my prior Torque knowledge will be applicable after the move. I would also like to know if it would make sense to grab a book on C#...
phong.
#2
Torque Game Builder is a C++ engine (T2D) and a 2D toolset (TGB). The toolset encompasses all of the graphical elements you see when you start up TGB: the level editor, tile editor, gui editor, etc. Working in the toolset automatically writes the changes in TorqueScript and adds them to the appropriate project. It is possible to code (in C++) or script (in TorqueScript) directly against the T2D engine without the TGB toolset, but obviously this is more difficult and therefore somewhat restricted to those with knowledge of C++, TorqueScript, and/or Torque engine structure. We sell both the engine and toolset together for $100 (binary) and $250 (source).
Torque X is a C# engine. The 2D toolset is TGBX, which is the TGB toolset re-written in C# to work with the Torque X engine. We intend for TGB and TGBX to eventually be the same product, so that purchase of the toolset will allow you to work with either the C++ engine or the C# engine. But, for now, they are separate products (though purchase of one grants ownership of the other). The scripting language for Torque X is C# rather than TorqueScript. Similarly to T2D, one can script directly against the Torque X engine without the TGBX toolset, with appropriate knowledge of C# and Torque scripting constructs. Torque X is available for this purpose for free. We suggest new users use the TGBX toolset, which is why a free trial of the toolset is included with the engine download. We sell the toolset for $100, and we plan to sell the source to the Torque X engine for $150. So, the pricing is identical to that for TGB, except that you can play around with the engine binary alone for free.
Having said all that, I'll try to directly answer your questions...
In addition TGBX (the toolset) provides an interface for dealing with levels, layers, tiles, particles, more.
Hope that helps. I'll have some of the more technical folks here look at this thread to make sure I got everything right. :)
04/16/2007 (12:55 pm)
It is indeed a confusing situation... we're working on improving the pages associated with these products to better clarify the difference.Torque Game Builder is a C++ engine (T2D) and a 2D toolset (TGB). The toolset encompasses all of the graphical elements you see when you start up TGB: the level editor, tile editor, gui editor, etc. Working in the toolset automatically writes the changes in TorqueScript and adds them to the appropriate project. It is possible to code (in C++) or script (in TorqueScript) directly against the T2D engine without the TGB toolset, but obviously this is more difficult and therefore somewhat restricted to those with knowledge of C++, TorqueScript, and/or Torque engine structure. We sell both the engine and toolset together for $100 (binary) and $250 (source).
Torque X is a C# engine. The 2D toolset is TGBX, which is the TGB toolset re-written in C# to work with the Torque X engine. We intend for TGB and TGBX to eventually be the same product, so that purchase of the toolset will allow you to work with either the C++ engine or the C# engine. But, for now, they are separate products (though purchase of one grants ownership of the other). The scripting language for Torque X is C# rather than TorqueScript. Similarly to T2D, one can script directly against the Torque X engine without the TGBX toolset, with appropriate knowledge of C# and Torque scripting constructs. Torque X is available for this purpose for free. We suggest new users use the TGBX toolset, which is why a free trial of the toolset is included with the engine download. We sell the toolset for $100, and we plan to sell the source to the Torque X engine for $150. So, the pricing is identical to that for TGB, except that you can play around with the engine binary alone for free.
Having said all that, I'll try to directly answer your questions...
Quote:What exactly is the connection between TGB and Torque X?They are built around the same functionality, though Torque X includes some improvements (components systems, shaders) and some changes (no network support). The main connection is that the 2D toolset used with both engines (TGB and TGBX) are intended to eventually be the same product, so purchase of one gives you ownership of both.
Quote:Is "TBGX" just an export module that writes some files in a format that XNA applications can read?At the most basic level, yes. Though it easily handles some very complex functions that would be difficult to code directly in XNA.
Quote:Why does purchasing TGB get one access to TDN but downloading Torque X does not when from what I understand TGB is not necessary to work with Torque X. Am I mistaken here?There is currently no (or very little) Torque X content up on TDN. We will eventually have download of Torque X tied to the appropriate TDN section.
Quote:Then there is the tread here in the forums saying that code done in TGB will all need to be rewritten in C#. So does this mean Torque X no longer supports Torquescript? Does this mean I for instance access input devices using XNA calls directly instead of using torque constructs?That is correct, Torque X uses C# as its scripting language instead of TorqueScript.
Quote:If so, what exactly does Torque X provide? Layers? Tile sets? Camera controls?Torque X (the engine) provides hardware-accelerated rendering, collision system, physics system, lighting system, more.
In addition TGBX (the toolset) provides an interface for dealing with levels, layers, tiles, particles, more.
Hope that helps. I'll have some of the more technical folks here look at this thread to make sure I got everything right. :)
#3
XNA by itself is just a set of game focused libraries. While Torque X is a full blown game engine built on top of those libraries.
04/16/2007 (1:50 pm)
Torque X is our Torque technologies ported over to C#. So while you are no longer working with Torque Script and C++, if you are familiar with working with our technologies then you will be at home working with Torque X. XNA by itself is just a set of game focused libraries. While Torque X is a full blown game engine built on top of those libraries.
#4
Just to clarify a tad and irritate Zach, it's a full blown 2d engine. They are working on 3D so that it will be a full blown 2D and 3D engine, but it's not out to us yet. *cough* hurry up *cough* ;)
04/16/2007 (2:39 pm)
Quote:While Torque X is a full blown game engine built on top of those libraries.
Just to clarify a tad and irritate Zach, it's a full blown 2d engine. They are working on 3D so that it will be a full blown 2D and 3D engine, but it's not out to us yet. *cough* hurry up *cough* ;)
#5
phong.
04/16/2007 (5:27 pm)
Thanks everybody for clarifying what's going on. There will be some funds heading GG's way as soon as the elite comes out. GG can also expect me to open my wallet again once "Torque X 3D" ships too. :Dphong.
#6
06/16/2007 (3:00 am)
This means if I use the platformer starter kit in toque x using txb (or tgbx) I will not be able to convert that game level directly into normal TGB for windows, linux or mac without actually rewriting the total script in torque or c++ ?
#7
06/16/2007 (5:00 am)
@Wicked: Correct. TGB and Torque X/TBX have nothing to do with each other except that there are similarities in the builder interface, as well as a few tools that allow scenes (not script or other programming) to be converted from TGB to Torque X.
#9
06/21/2007 (11:27 pm)
I see theres a 3D engine comming from you guys to develop on the X360 if i understand it right... right? where can i find more info about it?
#10
if you own TGB PRO you do not get Torque X Pro for free right?
07/06/2007 (4:33 pm)
One more clarification?if you own TGB PRO you do not get Torque X Pro for free right?
#11
Correct.
You get Torque X Builder for free, but still have to purchase Torque X Pro.
07/06/2007 (4:45 pm)
Quote:if you own TGB PRO you do not get Torque X Pro for free right?
Correct.
You get Torque X Builder for free, but still have to purchase Torque X Pro.
#13
TGEA 360 has been out for quite some time, but you have to be a registered XBox developer with a devkit and a slot from Microsoft to license it. Like most engines which have a console port.
TorqueX will evolve with XNA, so when XNA moves in the professional version direction, TorqueX will follow with a distribution model that fits. Right now you can deploy, but you can't create a commercial work for the 360 (or a networked one, either, at this point).
07/06/2007 (11:25 pm)
@Ehrlichmann Casas P.TGEA 360 has been out for quite some time, but you have to be a registered XBox developer with a devkit and a slot from Microsoft to license it. Like most engines which have a console port.
TorqueX will evolve with XNA, so when XNA moves in the professional version direction, TorqueX will follow with a distribution model that fits. Right now you can deploy, but you can't create a commercial work for the 360 (or a networked one, either, at this point).
Torque 3D Owner Jonathon Stevens
Just because you own TorqueX, doesn't mean you have a right to own TGBX as they are seperate products. If they packaged TGBX with TorqueX, then GG would make absolutely nothing off TX.
TGBX doesn't code for you, it simply creates the scene xml file so you don't have to do it manually (or through code).