Export map2dif_plus crash
by Caylo Gypsyblood · in Constructor · 04/10/2007 (2:11 pm) · 21 replies
I have many QUARK .map, they import to Constructor fine, and 'Export as Legacy' but have bright edges around many brush 'seams' (see pic below). The seams are not there when using map2dif_plus- (old one from 2005) as exported from QUARK.
AND when i try and use the map2dif_plus(new one that shipped with Constructor) it crash out on ALL of my maps(as soon as the 'Creating BSP...' part) that have DETAIL or PORTAL brushes. I even build a simple building with Constructor and try the same map2dif_plus with DETAIL and PORTAL and it still crash. (Export fine if i remove DETAIL and PORTAL, so im 99.98% sure thats the cause).
OK, so the 2005 map2dif_plus worked fine with QUARK, I setup a new export option that will use the OLD2005 map2dif_plus, but now it do not export ANY lights at all!
SYS. Spec. AMD 2Ghz/ 1.5GigRAM/ 6600GeForce/ TorqueTLK1.42
AND when i try and use the map2dif_plus(new one that shipped with Constructor) it crash out on ALL of my maps(as soon as the 'Creating BSP...' part) that have DETAIL or PORTAL brushes. I even build a simple building with Constructor and try the same map2dif_plus with DETAIL and PORTAL and it still crash. (Export fine if i remove DETAIL and PORTAL, so im 99.98% sure thats the cause).
OK, so the 2005 map2dif_plus worked fine with QUARK, I setup a new export option that will use the OLD2005 map2dif_plus, but now it do not export ANY lights at all!
SYS. Spec. AMD 2Ghz/ 1.5GigRAM/ 6600GeForce/ TorqueTLK1.42
#2
Any one here actualy have the map2dif_plus exporting a .map that have 'DETAIL' and 'PORTAL' brush?
If so, could you try my example map, found in my first post?
If its simply me doing something wrong, i would LOVE to know.
If this is a known problem, that also would be great to know.
And if this is an unexpected, overlooked bug, at least recognize that it have been found, so i feel good about myself spending the last 2 days trying to get map2dif_plus to export ANY of my LARGE collection of QUAKE maps.
04/11/2007 (10:18 am)
Magically today, Im still not having any luck exporting with map2dif_plus. Any one here actualy have the map2dif_plus exporting a .map that have 'DETAIL' and 'PORTAL' brush?
If so, could you try my example map, found in my first post?
If its simply me doing something wrong, i would LOVE to know.
If this is a known problem, that also would be great to know.
And if this is an unexpected, overlooked bug, at least recognize that it have been found, so i feel good about myself spending the last 2 days trying to get map2dif_plus to export ANY of my LARGE collection of QUAKE maps.
#3
04/11/2007 (10:50 am)
I ran it thru map2dif_plus and I had no problems. Here screenshot in Torque.
#4
Thats the same thing i get when i use the old map2dif_plus- one from 2005, !NO LIGHTS!
And using the one that came packed with Constructor crash the map2dif_plus(this one is dated Mar 22/07).
I would LOVE to be able to export my .map files with 'DETAIL' and 'PORTAL' brush, as mentioned on the Constructor Page.
Thanks for the test run Fucifer, lets me know im not crazy AND that there is something wrong...
04/11/2007 (11:02 am)
Ah, you ARE having problems. There are bright RED and BLUE lights inside that building!Thats the same thing i get when i use the old map2dif_plus- one from 2005, !NO LIGHTS!
And using the one that came packed with Constructor crash the map2dif_plus(this one is dated Mar 22/07).
I would LOVE to be able to export my .map files with 'DETAIL' and 'PORTAL' brush, as mentioned on the Constructor Page.
Thanks for the test run Fucifer, lets me know im not crazy AND that there is something wrong...
#5
Anyone that DO NOT have this problem, could you please take the time out of your day to email me the map2dif_plus.exe that you are using ,or drop a link to it on this forum?
I really want to be able to export my DIF files with lights, and 'PORTAL' brush, and everything else that should be working but is not, as mentioned above...
04/11/2007 (3:18 pm)
No one else is haveing this problem?Anyone that DO NOT have this problem, could you please take the time out of your day to email me the map2dif_plus.exe that you are using ,or drop a link to it on this forum?
I really want to be able to export my DIF files with lights, and 'PORTAL' brush, and everything else that should be working but is not, as mentioned above...
#6
04/12/2007 (12:08 pm)
Ok, I was think it was crashing on you that what I meant by no problems. I did not check any thing else. I will run some tests for you.
#7
The Constructor packed map2dif_plus DO crash on me. (I found what make it crash and explain it above.)
The earlyer one from 2005 DO work, but no lights.
And the 'Export as Legacy' chop my brushes up and re-light them in BAD odd ways...
Its a 100% NO WIN situation for me, and i have a LARGE database of QUARK .maps that i have been building over the last 2 years, i would LOVE to get into Constructor and work on some lights and textures... I can not get ANY of my QUARK maps OUT of Constructor in a satisfactory way.
04/12/2007 (12:15 pm)
Cool, thanks Fucifer. The Constructor packed map2dif_plus DO crash on me. (I found what make it crash and explain it above.)
The earlyer one from 2005 DO work, but no lights.
And the 'Export as Legacy' chop my brushes up and re-light them in BAD odd ways...
Its a 100% NO WIN situation for me, and i have a LARGE database of QUARK .maps that i have been building over the last 2 years, i would LOVE to get into Constructor and work on some lights and textures... I can not get ANY of my QUARK maps OUT of Constructor in a satisfactory way.
#8
04/12/2007 (1:55 pm)
Use whatever map2dif you have been using for your Quark .maps for the last 2 years. If you don't edit them in Constructor then they should export exactly the same as they do out of Quark.
#9
The new map2Dif crash(new from Constructor install) and if I remove 'portals' and 'detail' brush this NEW one works, with the wonderful lights. But this export is useless as the geometry is a mess without DETAIL and PORTAL.
I much prefer QUARKS more powerful and more precise(for now i hope) geometry editing tools, but i HATE doing textures and lights in QUARK, the 2 powerful points of Constructor.
But i can not get anything i do with Constructor to export in a 'good' looking way.
NOW the example map i posted above was MADE IN CONSTRUCTOR, and still do not export correctly...
Its like Christmas comes and i get an empty box, and back eye... Boo...
04/12/2007 (2:19 pm)
Oh they DO export the same, but without Constructor LIGHTS(map2dif-2005 version), I have not added light to my maps yet because its a pain to do with QUARK. The new map2Dif crash(new from Constructor install) and if I remove 'portals' and 'detail' brush this NEW one works, with the wonderful lights. But this export is useless as the geometry is a mess without DETAIL and PORTAL.
I much prefer QUARKS more powerful and more precise(for now i hope) geometry editing tools, but i HATE doing textures and lights in QUARK, the 2 powerful points of Constructor.
But i can not get anything i do with Constructor to export in a 'good' looking way.
NOW the example map i posted above was MADE IN CONSTRUCTOR, and still do not export correctly...
Its like Christmas comes and i get an empty box, and back eye... Boo...
#10
The lights that are listed under the "-- Constructor --" heading in the Entity list (light_point thru light_targetspot) are all new lighting entities that will only work with the "Export As DIF..." and "Export As Legacy DIF..." options. Map2dif won't recognize these lights and will just ignore them as unknown entities.
If you look a little further down the Entity list under the "-- Torque --" heading you will find the light entities that *are* supported by map2dif (such as light_omni). If you are going to be exporting through map2dif you should use those.
04/12/2007 (2:27 pm)
Ah! I think I may perhaps know what is going on.The lights that are listed under the "-- Constructor --" heading in the Entity list (light_point thru light_targetspot) are all new lighting entities that will only work with the "Export As DIF..." and "Export As Legacy DIF..." options. Map2dif won't recognize these lights and will just ignore them as unknown entities.
If you look a little further down the Entity list under the "-- Torque --" heading you will find the light entities that *are* supported by map2dif (such as light_omni). If you are going to be exporting through map2dif you should use those.
#11
04/12/2007 (2:28 pm)
Ah yes, I saw and tried that. I changed them to TORQUE, did not work...
#12
Edit: i had light_omni backwards as omni_light
04/12/2007 (2:31 pm)
So your previously exported Quark maps suddenly stop exporting when you add a single light_omni?Edit: i had light_omni backwards as omni_light
#13
04/12/2007 (2:31 pm)
Wait... "light_omni"..... hmm.. gonna try that right now....
#14
omni_light are pale and washed out, but i expect i can tweak that up.
Thank you Much Matt, i would NEVER have thought about that... You saved me 100's of hours work.
04/12/2007 (2:37 pm)
I think its working(something up with my textures now- but nothing i dont know how to fix)... omni_light are pale and washed out, but i expect i can tweak that up.
Thank you Much Matt, i would NEVER have thought about that... You saved me 100's of hours work.
#15
Some things to check:
Use vertex editing to make sure the points along those edges line up precisely (perhaps using snap-to-grid). You can even get really precise by editing their positions in the text of the .csx file directly if you want to be super sure.
I discovered an interested thing when I was exporting the landtower from the TGE 1.4.2 demo. I was getting odd bright spots/polys and seams in the engine when I was relighting. For a while I thought it was a bug in the exporting code until I took a look at the same tower exported from map2dif that I had placed in the same spot with the same rotation and realized that those artifacts did in fact occur in the map2dif version of the tower but they were *much* harder to see because the contrast was less on the lightmaps that map2dif produced. So the bug had existed in TGE's DIF lighting for years but Constructor was making it obvious enough to actually see the bug. If I rotated the DIF a little a lot of those bright spots would clear up.
Another way to combat bright spots like that is to decrease the light_geometry_scale. Even pulling it down from its default 32.0 to 16.0 can make a *huge* difference in the quality of your lighting.
Getting the lighting correct is a bit of an art not a science.
04/12/2007 (2:42 pm)
As far as the "seams" you are seeing. That is simply a fact of life for brush based lighting and can be caused by all sorts of things.Some things to check:
Use vertex editing to make sure the points along those edges line up precisely (perhaps using snap-to-grid). You can even get really precise by editing their positions in the text of the .csx file directly if you want to be super sure.
I discovered an interested thing when I was exporting the landtower from the TGE 1.4.2 demo. I was getting odd bright spots/polys and seams in the engine when I was relighting. For a while I thought it was a bug in the exporting code until I took a look at the same tower exported from map2dif that I had placed in the same spot with the same rotation and realized that those artifacts did in fact occur in the map2dif version of the tower but they were *much* harder to see because the contrast was less on the lightmaps that map2dif produced. So the bug had existed in TGE's DIF lighting for years but Constructor was making it obvious enough to actually see the bug. If I rotated the DIF a little a lot of those bright spots would clear up.
Another way to combat bright spots like that is to decrease the light_geometry_scale. Even pulling it down from its default 32.0 to 16.0 can make a *huge* difference in the quality of your lighting.
Getting the lighting correct is a bit of an art not a science.
#16
Can not change the intensity of it at all, OR instead of 255 0 0 = red using 128 0 0 != dark red both are bright white.
As long as the "Export As Legacy" is fixed up in the next version, and working decent with 1.42, i could skip worrying about this for now.....
(or how about getting a hold of the NEW-shipped with Constructor- map2dif code, to see if i can get it working with my maps? The new one will export the lights correctly but crash on anything i use portal and detail brush in...)
04/12/2007 (2:52 pm)
OK... actualy NO its not working.. I get LIGHT, but not color from the lights, and its all FULL bright. Can not change the intensity of it at all, OR instead of 255 0 0 = red using 128 0 0 != dark red both are bright white.
As long as the "Export As Legacy" is fixed up in the next version, and working decent with 1.42, i could skip worrying about this for now.....
(or how about getting a hold of the NEW-shipped with Constructor- map2dif code, to see if i can get it working with my maps? The new one will export the lights correctly but crash on anything i use portal and detail brush in...)
#17
The two i show in the above pic, are SOLID brush shapes, the "Export As Legacy" is building the cuts, its doing all types of crazy cutting....
EDIT:
Also, Im very careful about my BSP. Been building BSP from the earliest days of QUAKE, worked on professional Unreal projects, as my money making carer, now im building my own project.
The building from the above pic have NO flaws when using TLK dynamic lights and/or the SUN to light it, every one of my buildings is perfect exported from QUARK, and using SUN/TLK to do generic lights- but as soon as "Export As Legacy" gets done with it, its looks like a mess of LEGO blocks..
04/12/2007 (2:54 pm)
ABOUT "seams":The two i show in the above pic, are SOLID brush shapes, the "Export As Legacy" is building the cuts, its doing all types of crazy cutting....
EDIT:
Also, Im very careful about my BSP. Been building BSP from the earliest days of QUAKE, worked on professional Unreal projects, as my money making carer, now im building my own project.
The building from the above pic have NO flaws when using TLK dynamic lights and/or the SUN to light it, every one of my buildings is perfect exported from QUARK, and using SUN/TLK to do generic lights- but as soon as "Export As Legacy" gets done with it, its looks like a mess of LEGO blocks..
#18
04/12/2007 (5:10 pm)
Switching some of your brushes to detail brushes will cause them to not get cut up (which is the point of detail brushes). You can use the export preview to see how they are getting cut up and adjust your brushes accordingly (tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/Constructor/Viewports#Export_Render_Mode - you'll want Shaded mode).
#19
I hate the fact that i need to re-tweak my .map files to get the same export that the 2005 map2dif was already achieving. But overall the fact that it is so fast and easy to add lights and fine tune my texture alignments is a better payoff then QUARK alone would ever offer. Also the fact that Constructor give me more freedom with 'light_geometry_scale'(light map resolution size) settings plus smoothing normals, any overhead hassle is still well worth the hassle for a better exported Dif! Im achieving some truly wonderfully results, even with above mentioned problems.
Matt, thank you for helping me across the hurtles, and into a better overall art pipeline!
04/12/2007 (6:03 pm)
Yes, thank you. The 'export preview' have already become most valuable! Im puzzled as to why the "Export As Legacy" do more odd cuts then the normal map2dif export. BUT overall i think im getting the hang of it. Im eagerly awaiting the next version of Constructor so I can judge the FPS performance of my Dif objects, with PORTAL brush. I hate the fact that i need to re-tweak my .map files to get the same export that the 2005 map2dif was already achieving. But overall the fact that it is so fast and easy to add lights and fine tune my texture alignments is a better payoff then QUARK alone would ever offer. Also the fact that Constructor give me more freedom with 'light_geometry_scale'(light map resolution size) settings plus smoothing normals, any overhead hassle is still well worth the hassle for a better exported Dif! Im achieving some truly wonderfully results, even with above mentioned problems.
Matt, thank you for helping me across the hurtles, and into a better overall art pipeline!
#20
-s -h -o "$(OutputPath)" -t "$(OutputPath)" "$(MapFullPath)"
and using this version of map2dif_plus (its the only one I've found that works in quark and constructor that successfully exports with all the portals/zones/lights/detail/structure properly
www.rustycode.com/matt/map2dif_plus.exe
and this fix to have pre 1.5.1 difs working in 1.5.1 look down a few posts for one from Matt Fairfax (all you need is the j,k swap)
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=60295
happy building
04/16/2007 (9:32 pm)
Caylo, I have had nothing but luck exporting using map2dif_plus from within constructor using these options-s -h -o "$(OutputPath)" -t "$(OutputPath)" "$(MapFullPath)"
and using this version of map2dif_plus (its the only one I've found that works in quark and constructor that successfully exports with all the portals/zones/lights/detail/structure properly
www.rustycode.com/matt/map2dif_plus.exe
and this fix to have pre 1.5.1 difs working in 1.5.1 look down a few posts for one from Matt Fairfax (all you need is the j,k swap)
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=60295
happy building
Torque Owner Jason Lee