Acheiving RagDoll
by Kevin James · in Torque Game Builder · 03/28/2007 (2:39 pm) · 10 replies
It will probably be three months until I get started on the project that I want ragdoll in, but the idea has been bugging me for a long time now, and I'd like to hear some ideas.
(I'm thinking in terms of side-veiw)
I'm fairly certain that if you mount a bunch of sprites together resembeling a human figure in the Level Builder, and proceed to test the game, the figure will not fall ragdoll style.
My preferred way of acheiving ragdoll would be having seperate objects (arms, legs, a head) attached to a main object. (torso) I most likely wouldn't get so complicated as hands or feet.
So what are some experiences, crazy ideas or hair-brained schemes that you may have?
(I'm thinking in terms of side-veiw)
I'm fairly certain that if you mount a bunch of sprites together resembeling a human figure in the Level Builder, and proceed to test the game, the figure will not fall ragdoll style.
My preferred way of acheiving ragdoll would be having seperate objects (arms, legs, a head) attached to a main object. (torso) I most likely wouldn't get so complicated as hands or feet.
So what are some experiences, crazy ideas or hair-brained schemes that you may have?
About the author
Computer security, digital forensics, and platform jumper enthusiast. shells.myw3b.net/~syreal/
#2
There is none at the moment especially not "in the standard build"
Is that enough of an idea :)
04/04/2007 (7:30 am)
Implement a rag doll system.There is none at the moment especially not "in the standard build"
Is that enough of an idea :)
#3
What I plan to do is take 2 or 3 months, and go through the C++ for dummies book and hopefully get a good grasp on the language before summer. I don't think it would be possible to get a good ragdoll system going through TorqueScript. Thus, I need to expand my horizons!
04/04/2007 (7:36 am)
Thats about as far as I've gotten, man.What I plan to do is take 2 or 3 months, and go through the C++ for dummies book and hopefully get a good grasp on the language before summer. I don't think it would be possible to get a good ragdoll system going through TorqueScript. Thus, I need to expand my horizons!
#4
A page on TDN about ODE urging you not to bother
My ODEScript resource. It's not the most up to date build I have, but sooner or later ragdolls might be possible. I have most of the stuff for ragdolls in place in my current build...
For real ragdolls that don't suck, you'll also need richer collision information than Torque provides in the box: Polysoup collision is one such thing, but comes with a license that I find dissatisfactory so I haven't tried it [a topic into which I choose not to delve for now]. I cannot help but wonder if GG have hit the same stumbling block I have in a physics-in-torque system, and this is their solution for it. Idle hypothesising...
If you like ODE [I do, obviously enough], Then you'll want to read:
1) ODE Wiki's Networking Howto
I read this, then threw it out the window and came up with something different that would fit better with torque. But read it anyways.
2) ODE Wiki's Ragdoll Howto
Gary (-;
04/04/2007 (11:44 am)
Chris Calef's Ragdoll PackA page on TDN about ODE urging you not to bother
My ODEScript resource. It's not the most up to date build I have, but sooner or later ragdolls might be possible. I have most of the stuff for ragdolls in place in my current build...
For real ragdolls that don't suck, you'll also need richer collision information than Torque provides in the box: Polysoup collision is one such thing, but comes with a license that I find dissatisfactory so I haven't tried it [a topic into which I choose not to delve for now]. I cannot help but wonder if GG have hit the same stumbling block I have in a physics-in-torque system, and this is their solution for it. Idle hypothesising...
If you like ODE [I do, obviously enough], Then you'll want to read:
1) ODE Wiki's Networking Howto
I read this, then threw it out the window and came up with something different that would fit better with torque. But read it anyways.
2) ODE Wiki's Ragdoll Howto
Quote: go through the C++ for dummies bookHoooo boy. For now, I'd suggest Chris Calef's stuff, and the book. Ragdolls in torque are in the category of "non-trivial", even if you have a healthy grasp of C++.
Gary (-;
#5
04/04/2007 (11:56 am)
Those would be more helpful if this were the TGE forum and not the TGB one, Gary! ;)
#6
I really appreciate all these great links, Gary, but I'm just talking about 2D side-view "ragdoll" . . . I guess more like "paperdoll". I'll take a more detailed look at these resources though, when I'm ready to start making a game again.
Right now I have work yet to do on this.
Cheers,
KJ
04/04/2007 (1:13 pm)
Quote:Those would be more helpful if this were the TGE forum and not the TGB one, Gary! ;)
I really appreciate all these great links, Gary, but I'm just talking about 2D side-view "ragdoll" . . . I guess more like "paperdoll". I'll take a more detailed look at these resources though, when I'm ready to start making a game again.
Right now I have work yet to do on this.
Cheers,
KJ
#7
04/04/2007 (2:02 pm)
2D rag doll is like 3D rag doll just that the simulation is 1 dimension less. If the math of 3D is understood you can do 2d. you will most likely not find a resource that is specific to 2d ... 
#8
This would be quite an interesting feat to pull off ... and I don't think you can really do it without some code to drive it ... though, depending on the overall absolute functionality you were going for ... you could probably pull off something "usable" in TorqueScript ... though, I can't really say how functional it would be in a game, it would all really depend on the game idea itself ... C++ would be the best place to implement this though ... but you could prototype the idea with TorqueScript ...
04/05/2007 (9:51 pm)
Kevin ... if the physics system in TGB were better, you could simulate the 'falling' of the body parts by using gravity and pinning the objects together ... using different values for them ... you could possibly get the mounted body parts to react more "rag doll" like if you started them out in a "fallen" position, then used auto-rotate and mount strength properties ... along with the existance of non-visible objects that prevent things from going in places they shouldn't (collision boxes basically) ...This would be quite an interesting feat to pull off ... and I don't think you can really do it without some code to drive it ... though, depending on the overall absolute functionality you were going for ... you could probably pull off something "usable" in TorqueScript ... though, I can't really say how functional it would be in a game, it would all really depend on the game idea itself ... C++ would be the best place to implement this though ... but you could prototype the idea with TorqueScript ...
#9
The default physics is nice but doing ragdoll without some kind of Inverse Kinematik system or something that makes sure that the skeleton at least partially has "realistic" behavior and not "anything can go anywhere", you won't be able to have "realistic falling" of any living beeing because humans have, even if they are not realizing it, a very precise understanding of how our bodies can bend etc and how not and whats possible to our extremities without tearing appart the body.
04/06/2007 (4:18 am)
No it wouldn't work.The default physics is nice but doing ragdoll without some kind of Inverse Kinematik system or something that makes sure that the skeleton at least partially has "realistic" behavior and not "anything can go anywhere", you won't be able to have "realistic falling" of any living beeing because humans have, even if they are not realizing it, a very precise understanding of how our bodies can bend etc and how not and whats possible to our extremities without tearing appart the body.
#10
I also see what you're saying, Marc. I'm definitely going to research before I dive into modding the engine. As you said, a player knows when the ragdoll looks right and when it does not.
Thanks for the thoughts!
04/07/2007 (8:55 am)
I see what you're saying David, but I really want at least a semi-realistic ragdoll effect. The way you explain it was pretty much what I was going to do with TorqueScript, but I've realized that I'm eventually going to need to know C++ and I might as well start now and perhaps add some really cool technology to the TGB engine.I also see what you're saying, Marc. I'm definitely going to research before I dive into modding the engine. As you said, a player knows when the ragdoll looks right and when it does not.
Thanks for the thoughts!
Torque Owner Kevin James