Bloody Music
by Nick Palmer · in General Discussion · 06/27/2002 (12:25 pm) · 11 replies
Track location: www.nicholaspalmer.com/audio/battle_music.mp3
There are other tracks there, too-- just enter the URL through "audio" to see the list of tracks I've uploaded.
Well, I'll let you be the judge of how bloody this sounds. This is a sketch for possible use in Realm Wars. Since I got hold of GigaStudio, the process is a little slower because of all the detail I can put in, so this track is only 1:22. It obviously isn't finished, so don't tell me it isn't loopable in your comments or that it is too short! I've added a little more brass (I still can't get the brass to snarl, but it is close) a little more percussion (Advanced Orchestra has timid percussion) and a new vocal section (I can't get a very sinister sound out of the beautiful Voices of the Apocalypse collection without doing backward somersaults through flaming hoops) to follow the original introduction of the last sketch I put up.
To fix up yet: some of the flute twiddlies are mistimed; not all the consonants are right in the voices; I'm still working for that perfect blend.
The text is: "Mica fulmine et interfice illos. Mica fulmine et dissipa eos mitte saggitam tuam et interfice illos," which means, of course (heh), "Flash lightning and annhilate them. Flash lightning and disperse them with your arrows and annhilate them." This Latin text is from the Vulgate Bible, Psalm 139-- monastic communities pray this every week, but of course they know the actual context. Seemed just right for this game.
Phil? Right direction?
Nick
There are other tracks there, too-- just enter the URL through "audio" to see the list of tracks I've uploaded.
Well, I'll let you be the judge of how bloody this sounds. This is a sketch for possible use in Realm Wars. Since I got hold of GigaStudio, the process is a little slower because of all the detail I can put in, so this track is only 1:22. It obviously isn't finished, so don't tell me it isn't loopable in your comments or that it is too short! I've added a little more brass (I still can't get the brass to snarl, but it is close) a little more percussion (Advanced Orchestra has timid percussion) and a new vocal section (I can't get a very sinister sound out of the beautiful Voices of the Apocalypse collection without doing backward somersaults through flaming hoops) to follow the original introduction of the last sketch I put up.
To fix up yet: some of the flute twiddlies are mistimed; not all the consonants are right in the voices; I'm still working for that perfect blend.
The text is: "Mica fulmine et interfice illos. Mica fulmine et dissipa eos mitte saggitam tuam et interfice illos," which means, of course (heh), "Flash lightning and annhilate them. Flash lightning and disperse them with your arrows and annhilate them." This Latin text is from the Vulgate Bible, Psalm 139-- monastic communities pray this every week, but of course they know the actual context. Seemed just right for this game.
Phil? Right direction?
Nick
About the author
#2
As an aside, most dramatic choral music heard in film including "Star Wars", "Glory" (really obvious derivative), and LOTR is somehow derived from a single piece: "Carmina Burana" by Carl Orff. If you aren't embarrassed to shop in the classical section of the CD store, look for a copy-- it's a lot of fun to listen to from beginning to end, and when you go to the movies, you'll hear how influential the piece is. You'll get a kick out of reading the lascivious text, too. Anyway, my little ditty is written in the same general style, so that's why you are thinking along the lines of the movies you mentioned.
Nick
06/27/2002 (4:04 pm)
Thanks! Even if the GG gods aren't interested in using it, it has been a great learning experience so far.As an aside, most dramatic choral music heard in film including "Star Wars", "Glory" (really obvious derivative), and LOTR is somehow derived from a single piece: "Carmina Burana" by Carl Orff. If you aren't embarrassed to shop in the classical section of the CD store, look for a copy-- it's a lot of fun to listen to from beginning to end, and when you go to the movies, you'll hear how influential the piece is. You'll get a kick out of reading the lascivious text, too. Anyway, my little ditty is written in the same general style, so that's why you are thinking along the lines of the movies you mentioned.
Nick
#3
Another great peice.
Listening back to my poledouris collection, I'd have to say that the only thing its missing is more attack at the points where its trying to build a crescendo.
Typically you hear pretty heavy brass stabs from an orchestra, accompanies with loud and upfront crash and ride cymbals. I think thats really the only thing your missing.
Youve got a brass patch somewhere in the background there, that I think is a touch too week, maybe back that off and roll in the heavy guns at the real high points.
Might give it a bit more dynamic range. Also, look for some heavier kettle drum type sounds, I think maybe its lacking a bit of punch from some of those.
Great arrangement tho.. definitely in the right way.. especially the chorals.
I wish I had more music stuff together to have a stab at doing something back for you.. I'm a musician myself, but never got a full recording rig together (got a few midi synths and some HDR gear, but never got round to the sampler and other stuff I'd really need. Maybe one day.
Phil.
06/27/2002 (4:08 pm)
Hi Nick,Another great peice.
Listening back to my poledouris collection, I'd have to say that the only thing its missing is more attack at the points where its trying to build a crescendo.
Typically you hear pretty heavy brass stabs from an orchestra, accompanies with loud and upfront crash and ride cymbals. I think thats really the only thing your missing.
Youve got a brass patch somewhere in the background there, that I think is a touch too week, maybe back that off and roll in the heavy guns at the real high points.
Might give it a bit more dynamic range. Also, look for some heavier kettle drum type sounds, I think maybe its lacking a bit of punch from some of those.
Great arrangement tho.. definitely in the right way.. especially the chorals.
I wish I had more music stuff together to have a stab at doing something back for you.. I'm a musician myself, but never got a full recording rig together (got a few midi synths and some HDR gear, but never got round to the sampler and other stuff I'd really need. Maybe one day.
Phil.
#4
Nick
06/27/2002 (7:59 pm)
I think your suggestion about the brass is right on-- I have too complex a texture, for one thing, and eliminating the extra brass will clean things up a bit. Till next time.Nick
#5
I laugh at all the fools buying rock and rap.
Though too few stores carry good Tuba/Euphonium stuff :)
Have you heard a band piece by Robert W. Smith called "Twelve Seconds To The Moon"?
It's one of the few pieces I've heard that sounds like "movie music".
Anyway there's this one section in it where it switches to 7/8 that I seem to use a lot for Bad Guy themes or just general evil pumped music.
Other than that most of my influence comes from the classical composers that have those well known songs.
By the way, have you ever made an Gregorian chant styled themes?
06/27/2002 (9:54 pm)
Embarrassed? Pfft!I laugh at all the fools buying rock and rap.
Though too few stores carry good Tuba/Euphonium stuff :)
Have you heard a band piece by Robert W. Smith called "Twelve Seconds To The Moon"?
It's one of the few pieces I've heard that sounds like "movie music".
Anyway there's this one section in it where it switches to 7/8 that I seem to use a lot for Bad Guy themes or just general evil pumped music.
Other than that most of my influence comes from the classical composers that have those well known songs.
By the way, have you ever made an Gregorian chant styled themes?
#6
My only commentary would be that the chorus sounds clipped in some places, as if they cut off precisely together. Maybe there's some way to blend the syllables together, or add some sustain to smooth it out?
06/28/2002 (2:08 am)
Love your stuff, Nick!My only commentary would be that the chorus sounds clipped in some places, as if they cut off precisely together. Maybe there's some way to blend the syllables together, or add some sustain to smooth it out?
#7
06/28/2002 (3:10 am)
really nice piece!
#8
I haven't written any chant-like music, yet, but I have relatively extensive experience with it, so I should be able to pull something off. The guys that did Halo did I nice job evoking that kind of sound.
Nick
06/28/2002 (6:27 am)
@James The Voices of the Apocalypse set is giving me a little more trouble than it should. I really have to work at it to avoid having the choir sound like they are singing in reverse. The problem is that the most convenient to use vowels are slow attack. I've complained in a complimentary way about this (gee, this is great stuff-- why not do such and such with what is already in the collection?) but I think I offended someone at Quantum Leap. Anyway, more tweaking is definitely required. I haven't written any chant-like music, yet, but I have relatively extensive experience with it, so I should be able to pull something off. The guys that did Halo did I nice job evoking that kind of sound.
Nick
#9
Things seem to be progressing well with this piece. You have the consonants at a much smoother level now, which makes the choral parts overall a great deal more realistic. I still don't care as much for the choir parts when they're exposed and not supported by other instrumentation. Starting at around :34 the choir sounds very dramatic, especially when its liberally mixed in with other orchestration. Have you thought about perhaps mixing some real live voices overtop the VoTA? Even one or two live singers would add a whole new dynamic to the sound.
I actually think you need more stuff going on overtop the choir as opposed to less. Tremolo strings, perhaps... mix some cello and bass stacattos with the brass stabs... You seem limited, though, by the samples you're using. Im assuming that the brass and strings are all Advanced Orchestra? AO was good for its day but there are better solutions now. There are a few brass libraries in the works that should really up the ante beyond whats currently available, and a few of them (one from Dan Dean and one from Project SAM) are going to hit in the next couple months. Kirk Hunter is also working on one.
I don't know how much money you have to play with, but Garritan Orchestral Strings or Sonic Implants new giant string library would both be a huge step up from AO. Its really tough to get an aggressive sound from AO on either the brass or strings fronts.
Just some thoughts... I do like how the piece is shaping up though!
06/29/2002 (12:14 am)
Hey Nick, Things seem to be progressing well with this piece. You have the consonants at a much smoother level now, which makes the choral parts overall a great deal more realistic. I still don't care as much for the choir parts when they're exposed and not supported by other instrumentation. Starting at around :34 the choir sounds very dramatic, especially when its liberally mixed in with other orchestration. Have you thought about perhaps mixing some real live voices overtop the VoTA? Even one or two live singers would add a whole new dynamic to the sound.
I actually think you need more stuff going on overtop the choir as opposed to less. Tremolo strings, perhaps... mix some cello and bass stacattos with the brass stabs... You seem limited, though, by the samples you're using. Im assuming that the brass and strings are all Advanced Orchestra? AO was good for its day but there are better solutions now. There are a few brass libraries in the works that should really up the ante beyond whats currently available, and a few of them (one from Dan Dean and one from Project SAM) are going to hit in the next couple months. Kirk Hunter is also working on one.
I don't know how much money you have to play with, but Garritan Orchestral Strings or Sonic Implants new giant string library would both be a huge step up from AO. Its really tough to get an aggressive sound from AO on either the brass or strings fronts.
Just some thoughts... I do like how the piece is shaping up though!
#10
They've been working on a program to aid in word-building with VoTA (which apparently also adresses some other problems) and it is now ready and should be up for download on Sounds Online in the next day or two. There's a forum post about it here (on the NorthernSounds Giga forum)... Not sure if you received any notification on this as a customer of the library, but I figure you won't want to miss it.
06/30/2002 (7:58 pm)
Nick - They've been working on a program to aid in word-building with VoTA (which apparently also adresses some other problems) and it is now ready and should be up for download on Sounds Online in the next day or two. There's a forum post about it here (on the NorthernSounds Giga forum)... Not sure if you received any notification on this as a customer of the library, but I figure you won't want to miss it.
#11
I put up another track at www.nicholaspalmer.com experimenting with voices singing "ah" all the way through. I think it is pretty much a derivative of Holst, though I forget which gasbag planet it is (Neptune?).
Nick
07/01/2002 (7:17 am)
Thanks, Joel. I knew about the utilities for word building, and that will be very useful, but I'll check out the forum to see what else they are intending to improve or fix. I emailed the maker of the set with my compliments and suggestions and he was kind enough to email back a couple of times, but I think he thought I was just a krank after a while. Oh well. I submitted a review to East West at soundsonline.com but since I didn't give it 5 out of 5 stars they didn't post the results (snicker). I put up another track at www.nicholaspalmer.com experimenting with voices singing "ah" all the way through. I think it is pretty much a derivative of Holst, though I forget which gasbag planet it is (Neptune?).
Nick
Benjamin McMillan
First thing that came to my mind was "Duel of the Fates" with the choir at the very beginning.
But then I was left with a very strong feel of Conan, even though I don't remember the music to that very well, your track just FELT barbaric.
Maybe even a little Lord of the Ring'sish
Really nice job
Ben