Traditional Platform Genre

#1 Michael, I still love those style games. I actually thought about doing something along those lines a while back. My only guess as to why it has declined would be that maybe the people that grew up as those games were popular have moved on to the more advanced 3d fps and rpg games. I could be wrong though. Good luck with your project!

#2 Well, specifically speaking the "platformer" genre hasn't declined all that much. Instead the field itself has widened to include First Person Shooters, Puzzle games, RPGs, MMOs, etc. Platforming is, to the extent of my knowledge, just a game based around running, jumping, possibly puzzle or shooter elements. Third person in about any example I can think of. There are 'side scrollers' which are specific to the early mario and sonic games you talk about. but Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper, Jak & Daxter, Tomb Raider perhaps, could all be grouped under platforming. I've only played the first two series, but they have the "collect them all" aspect to them. Now other games like Prince of Persia has "platformer elements" where parts of the gameplay are based around traditional platforming mechanics, but perhaps there is also a strong emphasis on combat or story or dialogue, etc.

So my two cents is that platforming hasn't declined, merely evolved.

#3 I'm thinking about doing the same style of gameplay. I think Torque would be a really good fit. In a way, Marble Blast is a platformer, just with a sphere instead of a hedgehog or something.

I think the decline is mostly because of the poor gamepad support on windows. Hopefully with the ability to use the USB xbox 360 controller in any PC, this could change.

I've got one and have hooked it up to several mini-games, I haven't tried it in torque yet though..

#4 @ Kouga -- you're right, but that is what I'm saying about getting to complex. I think it is great that games have evolved and that there are hybrid genres but to completely flush out an original genre like that is insane to me. I did really enjoy both Ratchet & Clank and Jak & Daxter, and after writing the first post I thought about both of these games. They didn't really do as well as I thought they might. Don't get me wrong, they did well enough to put out another two or more titles each, but I think they were the diamonds in the rough. I can think of a few others like Tak for the GC, and Spyro, that also stick out. I think that what I'm trying to get at is that I might even want it a little simpler so that it's quicker to start up, quicker to feel like you accomplished somehting, easy to put down, and not so easy to forget (Just like Super Mario and Sonic The Hedgehog) I'm bringin' it back so look out world!!!!

@ Cybore -- I have to agree to some extent. I did grow up with these types of games and do find myself wanting some of the complexity of newer games. But at the same time I stil find myself needing that simplistic enjoyment of the "hop and bop" or "or collect them all" games. Perhaps it's more of a time constraint issue, in that I have none, and knowing that I won't have time to sit and play for 10 hours straight, I steer clear of a lot of newer games.

@ Joel -- I hadn't really thought of Marble Blast (I am ashamed), but then again, I haven't really played it much. You are right though, and that is the kind of simplicity and excitement that I am talking about when it comes to this niche or genre.

Thanks again to everyone!!

Keep it comin'

Mike

#5 I wanted to post another quick question in relevence to the original post.

To those who enjoyed playing the original platformer games, I was wondering what particular features or aspects of these games kept you playing? Also, what would you like to see in a modernized 3d version of this type of game while still keeping the game simple and fun?

If you haven't read my profile, I am a student of Game Design and this would be my first major project. I have worked with a few other people but never finished anything, I think due to a very ambitous project. I would like to keep this project fairly simple with the possiblility of expanding as my own skills grow. I am fairly strong when it comes to modeling and am a moderate programmer.

Thanks again for any feedback.

Mike

#6 Well, for the purposes of this post, I'll stick as closely as I can to your mario & sonic example. What I always enjoyed about these games, these ones specifically, were rhythm. Not* so much getting through a level the fastest like you mentioned, but being able to keep in constant motion. Mario, Sonic, if you were good you could usually keep moving in a lot of these games. Tight controls and a slick engine, I imagine, is vital for this. For Sonic it's the speed, the turns, the jumps, the potential to go through an entire level without stopping. Even in more modern platformers like Prince of Persia, the more flowing the gameplay [even with combat and cut scenes intermixed] the better the game.

#7 Thanks, that is exactly what I am looking for. That's kinda what I meant when I said get through the stage in the fastest time. It meant trying to stay moving and hitting all the right jumps at the right times, Etc.

Thanks again!!

Mike

#8 The biggest thing for me is flow. I don't get into a lot of millitary games because things don't flow quite as well together. You run accross a field, and then hide in a bush for twenty minutes. Not my type of game. Keep it moving.

Dustin

#9 If you have a chance to (or if you haven't already) I would recommend you try playing Crackdown for the Xbox360. Although it is a GTA style game, I was really surprised by the platforming aspect to Crackdown. I would argue that the best part of the game is exploring and trying to jump your way to new heights in order to obtain power-ups.

The camera is third-person and by using the cross hair (you know, the thing that is usually used to aim your gun) I was easily able to jump great distances and land on pinpoint targets (like the top of a smokestack). This was by far the best implementation of platform style gameplay in a 3D environment that I have experienced in a long time.

Also, the things that kept me interested in those platformers of yesterday were exploration and being able to find things and areas that were not necessarily meant to be found. In fact when I found something hidden and latter realized that I had to find that item or area in order to finish the game, I was actually a little disappointed because that meant that everyone who played through the game would have found the same item or area in order to proceed. It was those items and areas that weren't meant for everyone's eyes, those things that could only be found by the skilled and vigilant; that is what kept me playing those games.

#10 @Dustin -- I also enjoy that fast paced action. Whether there was an actual countdown clock like Mario, or just a speed rush like Sonic, fast paced, in-your-face action tends to keep people coming back. Another aspect is replayability. Not in the sense that the level is going to be different each time you play, but in that you want to play that level again because you saw something that you missed and next time you're going to get it. ----------------------- Lovin' that!!!!!!!!!

@Richard -- I have not played Crackdown yet, as I do not have a 360, but I will definately check it out. Thanks for the input about old school platformers.

Thanks, again, to everyone. All this feedback is really helping out. Already I have altered some of my original ideas to make this a game that everyone can enjoy and keep coming back to.

Mike

#11 Those are fun games, but haven't they all been made 3d games already? Pretty sure mario 64 is a 3-d gaming model and so are all the newer sonic games. So umm yeah... Maybe reinvent the wheel?

#12 Many of the platformers have been converted to a 3D world with stellar, mixed, and horrific results. Camera control is 99.9% of the time the biggest fault with 3D platformers. I find it interesting that when Mario 64 was released, many people hated the camera because it was different than other 3D platformers...but then they fell in love with it later because it actually worked unlike most platformers prior to it. The Banjo Kazooie camera was great as well.

I absolutely love the Mario games. Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Paper Mario, Super Mario Bros, Mario 64... I love them. I can't get enough of them. One of the things that I love about them is that no matter how derivative the gameplay in terms of a platformer, there is precision to them that is not there in many, many platformers. There always seemed to be a great variety of things to do, even if the path was a linear one.

I can pick up and enjoy a Mario game more than a GTA game any day. Of course, I can pick up Devil May Cry and enjoy it more than a GTA game, too. Not that I don't like GTA...I just get bored sometimes with the pseudo open-endedness of them.

#13 I was wondering if Torque is able to supprt an imerssive world like the one found in Jak & Daxter, where there are no load times between areas. I realize that this isn't the specific forum topic to be posting this in but I already had hits on this thread. I am also going to post this same topic in a new thread.

I love the idea of free roam while still keeping that action packed platformer formula. I would like to atempt this in my game unless it is not going to be possible. I realize that it requires a lot of work on the art side but that seems to be my current strong suit.

If anyone has any comments or suggestions that my help in any way, please post.
Looking forward to hearing from all.

Mike