Can game violence go to far?
by Okashira · in General Discussion · 02/16/2007 (4:25 pm) · 37 replies
So, what do you think? Can game violence go to far, or should we release whatever we want and let people decide what games they play/they allow their children to play?
My opinion-
I think that everyone should have the freedom to release whatever type of game they want, because in the end it comes down to the parents to pay attention to what games they buy their kids. Though I DO think that rating systems like ESRB need to be advertised a little better, because let's face it - the average parent/grandparent isn't paying attention to the little ESRB sticker on the game. I think one way this can be solved would be ESRB commercials(similar to the TV rating commercials you might see) warning parents about these things. Also, if a game has explicit stuff I think the developer/publisher ought to place something extra on the package to warn the buyer(like what they did with Conker's Bad Fur Day, though this was obviously done a little for humor), but by choice - they shouldn't be forced to.
-Okashira
My opinion-
I think that everyone should have the freedom to release whatever type of game they want, because in the end it comes down to the parents to pay attention to what games they buy their kids. Though I DO think that rating systems like ESRB need to be advertised a little better, because let's face it - the average parent/grandparent isn't paying attention to the little ESRB sticker on the game. I think one way this can be solved would be ESRB commercials(similar to the TV rating commercials you might see) warning parents about these things. Also, if a game has explicit stuff I think the developer/publisher ought to place something extra on the package to warn the buyer(like what they did with Conker's Bad Fur Day, though this was obviously done a little for humor), but by choice - they shouldn't be forced to.
-Okashira
About the author
#22
02/17/2007 (4:22 pm)
I think David Blake layed out pretty clear what 'too far' would be for games. The difference between games and books or movies or music is that you 'do it' in the game. You wouldn't read or watch or hear about someone cutting a little kid up and wearing their face while driving down the freeway(Hannibal Lector) you would cut the face off the little kid and put the face on your character and drive down the freeway wearing her face. Yes... that is going too far for a game. And making a game where you cut the face off a child and wear it illegal is fine by me. Sorry, but freedom is freedom that doesn't hurt other people's freedom and anyone who plays a game like this is fucking crazy and is likely to do it for real after getting addicted to doing it in the game. This isn't cops and robbers... it's sadistic mutilation... and that's fucked up. Same thing with Ethnic cleansing. These are true life horrors beyond just the end of life which is fucked up already... but to allow people to enjoy themselves while pretending to kill a race or religion... um... fuck those people who don't get to do that. 
#23
2. Confusing freedom to do whatever the hell you want with responsibility to limit oneself to exposure to negative or dangerous influences is very ignorant.
3. There are way too many arm chair psychologists posting in these forums. My guess is that it is generally age related.
4. Making a game violent just to be violent will artificially limit your market to adults and uninformed parents of kids. It will also tend to give idiot lawmakers fuel to regulate the video game market. YOU DO NOT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN! Any time the government steps in logic goes out the window. Germany and China did just that when someone killed someone in real life over a video game. Government involvement will make it more expensive and possibly make it prohibitive for indies to make video games. Basically, don't cut your own throat.
5. I do believe, though, that if done well a violent video game could inform people as to what is really happening on the streets of our cities. That game would have to be just as graphic as the real thing. It would be akin to an independent film production. It would also need to not glorify the violence artificially. There is going to be some glory with your so called posse or gang, but not a high score. This is an excellent opportunity to "get real". This type of "game" would show the rest of the world that "We are serious".
02/17/2007 (4:23 pm)
1. Kids playing violent games generally denotes a lack of good judgement by the parent or lack of supervision. (kids < 18 years old)2. Confusing freedom to do whatever the hell you want with responsibility to limit oneself to exposure to negative or dangerous influences is very ignorant.
3. There are way too many arm chair psychologists posting in these forums. My guess is that it is generally age related.
4. Making a game violent just to be violent will artificially limit your market to adults and uninformed parents of kids. It will also tend to give idiot lawmakers fuel to regulate the video game market. YOU DO NOT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN! Any time the government steps in logic goes out the window. Germany and China did just that when someone killed someone in real life over a video game. Government involvement will make it more expensive and possibly make it prohibitive for indies to make video games. Basically, don't cut your own throat.
5. I do believe, though, that if done well a violent video game could inform people as to what is really happening on the streets of our cities. That game would have to be just as graphic as the real thing. It would be akin to an independent film production. It would also need to not glorify the violence artificially. There is going to be some glory with your so called posse or gang, but not a high score. This is an excellent opportunity to "get real". This type of "game" would show the rest of the world that "We are serious".
#24
I don't think the question is "can game violence go too far" it should be "can media violence go too far" because why is violence in GTA different than violence in Reservoir Dogs? I think that games, like all other forms of media, should be allowed to express what they want. HOWEVER, there is a lot of responsibility that needs to be picked up by all parties.
Parents need to monitor their kids. Not look over their shoulder all the time, but decide to either 1) take a peek at a review or even just watch the game for 10 min or 2) talk to their kids about violence portrayed in games.
Kids need to be smart enough to make their own choices and not be swayed by the media.
The media needs to make sure their games [and similarly, movies have had a similar problem lately] are properly advertised, ratings and all.
If you're really interested in some conversation and thoughts on this topic, check out Gabe's post in this issue of Penny Arcade
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2007/02/21
It's an interesting read.
02/23/2007 (9:41 pm)
Man. I just joined today, so I didn't get to jump on this stuff when it started.I don't think the question is "can game violence go too far" it should be "can media violence go too far" because why is violence in GTA different than violence in Reservoir Dogs? I think that games, like all other forms of media, should be allowed to express what they want. HOWEVER, there is a lot of responsibility that needs to be picked up by all parties.
Parents need to monitor their kids. Not look over their shoulder all the time, but decide to either 1) take a peek at a review or even just watch the game for 10 min or 2) talk to their kids about violence portrayed in games.
Kids need to be smart enough to make their own choices and not be swayed by the media.
The media needs to make sure their games [and similarly, movies have had a similar problem lately] are properly advertised, ratings and all.
If you're really interested in some conversation and thoughts on this topic, check out Gabe's post in this issue of Penny Arcade
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2007/02/21
It's an interesting read.
#25
02/24/2007 (8:10 am)
Quote: because why is violence in GTA different than violence in Reservoir Dogs?The general argument to that would be-
Quote:But in a game you are doing the killing, in a movie you are just watching it.
#26
As for the oh so over discussed link between violent video games and violent crimes.. Columbine was a big incident, but one of the earlier cases of school violence like that was Kip Kingle at Thurston High School. Kip shot at least 20 people at that school. We live three blocks from Kingle's old house. It's something that happened locally, and I know that he didn't do what he did cuz of any sort of violent video games. They didn't even find any. The guy was a nut case; I'm told the guy was a schizo. and since the politicians are ever so fond of numbers, why do they constantly ignore the percentage of gamers who have committed violent crimes, against the percent of gamers who haven't?
02/24/2007 (9:05 am)
You also play healing mages in Final Fantasy games, but no one points to video games as a reason for an increased number of medical volunteers. As for the oh so over discussed link between violent video games and violent crimes.. Columbine was a big incident, but one of the earlier cases of school violence like that was Kip Kingle at Thurston High School. Kip shot at least 20 people at that school. We live three blocks from Kingle's old house. It's something that happened locally, and I know that he didn't do what he did cuz of any sort of violent video games. They didn't even find any. The guy was a nut case; I'm told the guy was a schizo. and since the politicians are ever so fond of numbers, why do they constantly ignore the percentage of gamers who have committed violent crimes, against the percent of gamers who haven't?
#27
I want to shoot, shoot, shoot...The whole day down
02/24/2007 (9:23 am)
Tell me why I don't like MondaysI want to shoot, shoot, shoot...The whole day down
#28
But it's a totally different kind of violence between games, movies and real life. I can blow someones head off in Gears of War and watch the same exact thing in Saving private Ryan. But I can't watch Faces of Death or view a fatal car accedent while jumping up and down with popcorn and a Coke. In fact, I can't watch that stuff at all. I feel that most sane and normal people are the simmilar to me. Different people can stomch different things but I don't believe that any mentally healthy person (or non-game hater) would view videogame violence and real life violence as having the same impact.
Bottom line, I feel that if you ever witnessed anyone getting hurt or killed in real life and it gives you the same effect as if you just watched some kid perform a fatality in Mortal Kombat, stay the hell away from me. Your not awesome.
-Ajari-
02/24/2007 (12:35 pm)
Another good question would be, can movie violence go to far? Actually I think movie violence is worse than game violence for the simple fact that it looks more realistic. I've never squirmed playing a game or felt truly grossed out. Try watching The Hills Have Eyes while eating dinner.But it's a totally different kind of violence between games, movies and real life. I can blow someones head off in Gears of War and watch the same exact thing in Saving private Ryan. But I can't watch Faces of Death or view a fatal car accedent while jumping up and down with popcorn and a Coke. In fact, I can't watch that stuff at all. I feel that most sane and normal people are the simmilar to me. Different people can stomch different things but I don't believe that any mentally healthy person (or non-game hater) would view videogame violence and real life violence as having the same impact.
Bottom line, I feel that if you ever witnessed anyone getting hurt or killed in real life and it gives you the same effect as if you just watched some kid perform a fatality in Mortal Kombat, stay the hell away from me. Your not awesome.
-Ajari-
#29
Real violence: Real. Hurts people. Very painful. In fact, it just sucks.
Sure, videogame violence CAN go too far, but it's not like it's real or anything... violence "caused by videogames" is not caused by videogames. Violence "caused by videogames" is really caused by some of the morons who play videogames.
02/24/2007 (6:49 pm)
Videogame violence: Not real. Not hurting anyone. Not painful.Real violence: Real. Hurts people. Very painful. In fact, it just sucks.
Sure, videogame violence CAN go too far, but it's not like it's real or anything... violence "caused by videogames" is not caused by videogames. Violence "caused by videogames" is really caused by some of the morons who play videogames.
#30
Check this out and see what you think :)
I won't even try to condense it for you beyond saying that what I got out of it is that violence is violence and it affects people regardless of how realistic it is.
Of course this is only one article and it maybe terribly biased but at least it's a step above personal opinion :)
02/25/2007 (5:31 am)
Okay, no more armchair psychiatry - let's up the ante:Check this out and see what you think :)
I won't even try to condense it for you beyond saying that what I got out of it is that violence is violence and it affects people regardless of how realistic it is.
Of course this is only one article and it maybe terribly biased but at least it's a step above personal opinion :)
#31
"We're really not sure yet, we need more studies. Can i have more money?"
02/25/2007 (6:40 am)
Actually, the entire article can be summarized."We're really not sure yet, we need more studies. Can i have more money?"
#34
Good job, I was waiting for a straightforward answer instead of all this psychology stuff.
02/25/2007 (1:55 pm)
@TomGood job, I was waiting for a straightforward answer instead of all this psychology stuff.
#35
03/24/2007 (8:30 am)
Okashira, glad you brought this topic up. Yes, violence can go too far. While some violence may be necessary as a catalyst to release bottled up emotions, i.e., games like Super Mario World and Super Conflict: The MidEast for the SNES, bizarre violence, like what you might see in attack simulators like Doom on the other hand, will condition those that interact with those attack simulators to act out violence perhaps on real humans. Somehow I can traverse space and time with my mind to connect to the thoughts of anime characters. Goku and I had a quick mind to mind chat that really evilly violent characters perhaps come forth destruction and that those evil characters are not ok to be around. I'm also concerned that such evil characters could perhaps influence the decisions of political leaders.
#36
03/24/2007 (8:32 am)
Okashira, glad you brought this topic up. Yes, violence can go too far. While some violence may be necessary as a catalyst to release bottled up emotions, i.e., games like Super Mario World and Super Conflict: The MidEast for the SNES, bizarre violence, like what you might see in attack simulators like Doom on the other hand, will condition those that interact with those attack simulators to act out violence perhaps on real humans. Somehow I can traverse space and time with my mind to connect to the thoughts of anime characters. Goku and I had a quick mind to mind chat that really evilly violent characters perhaps come forth destruction and that those evil characters are not ok to be around. I'm also concerned that such evil characters could perhaps influence the decisions of political leaders.
#37
So, if his kid knocked his coffee into his lap and he brutaly beat the kid then blamed it on his exposure to videogames, he should get off right?
I ask you to find some sanity in all of this debate - the focal point being targeted at a fictional representation of a situation - instead of the effects of reality on an individual basis and that particular individual's reaction. Yeah, we all get a little crazy sometimes. You show me a sane person and I'll show you someone who's really insane! Face it, chaos happens, even your portrayal of Carlin is a slap in your own face (btw, tell him his comedic expression is just entertainment why don't ya') to the reality of the situation vs. the comedy in it. He'll be one of the first to tell you about the "system" breaking down and that it's supposed to happen, it's part of nature, just like it's part of nature for every creature with a right to life and an affirmation on it to just as quickly act "out of character" in any situation that invokes such action.
Out of reality actions (books, movies, videogames, etc.) are called acting, expression, it's make-believe, and yes, it's all art.
Want some reality? This could really happen:
Two guys who are friends sit together for a competitive game. One guy, Joe, tends to be quiet and fun-loving while the other, Ed, is more of an ego maniac. It just so happens that earlier, Joe was being pounced on by Ed's girlfriend and Ed found out recently. Joe, being as big a fan of the game as Ed, beats his ass in the game. Ed responds by shoving the controller up Joe's ass, not only because of the prior events, but also due to his sore-loser, ego-centric nature. The police report filed states the situation was caused by the videogame.
Smell that bullshit?
- Ronixus
(Appologies to readers who may or may not have been offended by the appropriated language used in the above post(s) as they were appropriated to emphisize the aggrevational value of the thread content and were in no way aimed at offending anyone...)
(...just like the media content in question in this thread.)
03/24/2007 (11:20 am)
Uh, James...Quote:
There is some evidence that highly aggressive individuals are more affected than nonaggressive individuals, but this finding does not consistently occur. Even nonaggressive individuals are consistently affected by brief exposures. Further research will likely find some significant moderators of violent video game effects, because the much larger research literature on television violence has found such effects and the underlying processes are the same. However, even that larger literature has not identified a sizeable population that is totally immune to negative effects of media violence.
So, if his kid knocked his coffee into his lap and he brutaly beat the kid then blamed it on his exposure to videogames, he should get off right?
I ask you to find some sanity in all of this debate - the focal point being targeted at a fictional representation of a situation - instead of the effects of reality on an individual basis and that particular individual's reaction. Yeah, we all get a little crazy sometimes. You show me a sane person and I'll show you someone who's really insane! Face it, chaos happens, even your portrayal of Carlin is a slap in your own face (btw, tell him his comedic expression is just entertainment why don't ya') to the reality of the situation vs. the comedy in it. He'll be one of the first to tell you about the "system" breaking down and that it's supposed to happen, it's part of nature, just like it's part of nature for every creature with a right to life and an affirmation on it to just as quickly act "out of character" in any situation that invokes such action.
Out of reality actions (books, movies, videogames, etc.) are called acting, expression, it's make-believe, and yes, it's all art.
Want some reality? This could really happen:
Two guys who are friends sit together for a competitive game. One guy, Joe, tends to be quiet and fun-loving while the other, Ed, is more of an ego maniac. It just so happens that earlier, Joe was being pounced on by Ed's girlfriend and Ed found out recently. Joe, being as big a fan of the game as Ed, beats his ass in the game. Ed responds by shoving the controller up Joe's ass, not only because of the prior events, but also due to his sore-loser, ego-centric nature. The police report filed states the situation was caused by the videogame.
- Ronixus
(Appologies to readers who may or may not have been offended by the appropriated language used in the above post(s) as they were appropriated to emphisize the aggrevational value of the thread content and were in no way aimed at offending anyone...)
(...just like the media content in question in this thread.)
Sean Brockest