When is a project idea too radical
by Zib · in General Discussion · 05/01/2001 (4:51 pm) · 16 replies
Just out of interest i thought i would check to see if any others were thinking along the same lines as me for a game project or a similar idea had been posted, NOT One, hmmm i think to myself
1) this means mabe its toooo radical no i dont think so
2) its a realy good idea that others have had so good in fact they are keeping it to themselves
3)Its absolute crap and so crap in fact that no one else even considered it
4)"This is the one i like" its far enough from the norm to be different enough for others not too have come up with something similar
5)Its too ambitous this one i more or less didnt consider looking at some of the things others are attempting, its small
1) this means mabe its toooo radical no i dont think so
2) its a realy good idea that others have had so good in fact they are keeping it to themselves
3)Its absolute crap and so crap in fact that no one else even considered it
4)"This is the one i like" its far enough from the norm to be different enough for others not too have come up with something similar
5)Its too ambitous this one i more or less didnt consider looking at some of the things others are attempting, its small
About the author
#2
05/01/2001 (8:24 pm)
Well as a general design rule, have you put together a design document (yeah the big design doc that really covers everything about every thing in the game). If you pulled that off - no its probably not too radical. Next get a copy of Microsoft Project or some other project planning tool. Put down some estimates for stuff with the resources you have. Is it still feasible to complete before you're collecting social security? If you can get through all that and still feel confident that you should, could, and would do this game then no its not too radical.
#3
05/02/2001 (5:18 am)
I wonder how many people in here actually have such good ideas they keep to themselves. I know I have a few.
#4
05/02/2001 (8:03 am)
Ideas are a dime a dozen. I bet everyone here has some. The really good ones are those that can stand criticism :)
#5
All in all, the two main reasons I DO share my ideas hre, are that it can provide a different perspective, and highlight flaws, but also, I hope that someone else will be able to draw inspiration from something I have posted.
I really amn' too worried about people pinching my ideas, because first off, I would think higher of that from most people here, and also because most of the ideas I post, are just that - ideas. I may make a project from them, but they would definately be worked on until they are fully fleshed out with enough content to produce a game. I would actually be happy if someone were to borrow from one of my ideas if used to further their own projects, just as long as the distinction was kept between borrowing ideas, and a straight rip.
05/02/2001 (10:54 am)
Personally I think it's a good thing to share all your ideas, and GG is an ideal place to do it. I have put any idea I have either on the projects page, or in the forums. It's helped me a lot - I have received plenty constructive criticism, as well as new ideas.All in all, the two main reasons I DO share my ideas hre, are that it can provide a different perspective, and highlight flaws, but also, I hope that someone else will be able to draw inspiration from something I have posted.
I really amn' too worried about people pinching my ideas, because first off, I would think higher of that from most people here, and also because most of the ideas I post, are just that - ideas. I may make a project from them, but they would definately be worked on until they are fully fleshed out with enough content to produce a game. I would actually be happy if someone were to borrow from one of my ideas if used to further their own projects, just as long as the distinction was kept between borrowing ideas, and a straight rip.
#6
Even then, it's hard to hold back something you want people to enjoy. Maybe if I could find someone trustworthy? My friends know some of what I do, yet they wouldn't know about it without an actual picture in their hands.
Top secret doesn't actualy fit the bill here, does it? There's always that chance that a person might want to rip off an idea and have the time and cash to get into it before you ever could. I guess living a life without luxury gives me an even moral reason to hold back.
I'd love to get into an idea swap and actualy get some feedback, maybe a little encouragement. Anyone interested in building a private forum for this? Maybe a club for us designers so we can only invite those we deem full hearted members.
Now that's a mouthful!
Good luck to you guys as well:)
05/02/2001 (11:20 pm)
Honestly, I've been trying to get my ideas working for over 8 years so yes, I'm very protective. You know how bad it's been when one of your ides suddenly shows up on a game and it's not with your help?! That's bad enough, but then again, I've had some outstanding ideas that haven't even been picked, scratched, or prodded! That's why I'm holding out for the long run...yet...Even then, it's hard to hold back something you want people to enjoy. Maybe if I could find someone trustworthy? My friends know some of what I do, yet they wouldn't know about it without an actual picture in their hands.
Top secret doesn't actualy fit the bill here, does it? There's always that chance that a person might want to rip off an idea and have the time and cash to get into it before you ever could. I guess living a life without luxury gives me an even moral reason to hold back.
I'd love to get into an idea swap and actualy get some feedback, maybe a little encouragement. Anyone interested in building a private forum for this? Maybe a club for us designers so we can only invite those we deem full hearted members.
Now that's a mouthful!
Good luck to you guys as well:)
#7
I have spent so much time creating some of my ideas I wouldn't dare post them in a forum...
I have shared them with a few people though.
I'd like to discuss this further, I need to go, talk later...
05/03/2001 (5:55 am)
Interesting..I have spent so much time creating some of my ideas I wouldn't dare post them in a forum...
I have shared them with a few people though.
I'd like to discuss this further, I need to go, talk later...
#8
This is especially important if you are a one man show, becomes less (not unimportant, mind you) as you grow a team.
My nickel :)
05/03/2001 (6:59 am)
Well, don't share EVERYTHING, but, like folks have said, ideas are a dime a dozen. Skeletons of concepts need to be fleshed out. You need to know if you have a show stopper on your hands. Maybe someone is doing something similar? Maybe you can collaborate? Maybe someone already did it (heaven forbid)?This is especially important if you are a one man show, becomes less (not unimportant, mind you) as you grow a team.
My nickel :)
#9
The cliche is true: ideas are a dime a dozen. I could sit here all day coming up with ideas. Doesn't mean all of them are usefull, or even make sense, but they're still ideas. Ideas are the basis for complete works (stories, games, pictures, etc...). The real work isn't getting ideas, but taking them through to that complete work stage. This involves fleshing them out, making sure everything fits together, and, of course, actually putting the effort into -making- something. An idea is just the skeleton, you have to add the flesh.
That said, I'll add this: no matter -how- original you think you idea is, someone else out there somewhere has thought of it too. I guarantee it. Why? Because ideas are cheap. Everyone has ideas. Not everyone turns them into works. So this whole concept of keeping your ideas 'secret' is rather ridiculous. You can't -own- an idea. It's even silly to claim that an idea is -yours-. What you can own, and what can be yours, is a work made from that idea, the flesh that surrounds the idea.
Keeping an idea secret doesn't mean that you'll be able to produce an original work. Even if your idea is truely unique, it's out as soon as you release your work. So what was the point of all that secrecy? Bragging rights? "Ooh, I did it first!" I'd hope that people were above that type of behaviour. If your work is good, people will recognize that. Ideas come and go, it's the works you do that you'll remember.
Before this gets too long, I'll get to my point: By all means, share your ideas! Even if someone else takes that idea and begins a work based on it, doesn't make your work any less credible: it's the flesh -around- the idea that's important. In sharing your idea you'll be able to get more ideas from other people, things you might not otherwise think of yourself. Let other help you, and help others in return. All this petty hoarding of 'my' ideas is juvenille, and ultimately pointless.
Edit: Hmm...that'll teach me to post a couple of hours after reading the thread. Edward seems to have already covered my idea...just more tersely. Go Edward! See, someone else had the same idea :p
05/03/2001 (9:57 am)
This is getting a little off-topic...but can't resist.The cliche is true: ideas are a dime a dozen. I could sit here all day coming up with ideas. Doesn't mean all of them are usefull, or even make sense, but they're still ideas. Ideas are the basis for complete works (stories, games, pictures, etc...). The real work isn't getting ideas, but taking them through to that complete work stage. This involves fleshing them out, making sure everything fits together, and, of course, actually putting the effort into -making- something. An idea is just the skeleton, you have to add the flesh.
That said, I'll add this: no matter -how- original you think you idea is, someone else out there somewhere has thought of it too. I guarantee it. Why? Because ideas are cheap. Everyone has ideas. Not everyone turns them into works. So this whole concept of keeping your ideas 'secret' is rather ridiculous. You can't -own- an idea. It's even silly to claim that an idea is -yours-. What you can own, and what can be yours, is a work made from that idea, the flesh that surrounds the idea.
Keeping an idea secret doesn't mean that you'll be able to produce an original work. Even if your idea is truely unique, it's out as soon as you release your work. So what was the point of all that secrecy? Bragging rights? "Ooh, I did it first!" I'd hope that people were above that type of behaviour. If your work is good, people will recognize that. Ideas come and go, it's the works you do that you'll remember.
Before this gets too long, I'll get to my point: By all means, share your ideas! Even if someone else takes that idea and begins a work based on it, doesn't make your work any less credible: it's the flesh -around- the idea that's important. In sharing your idea you'll be able to get more ideas from other people, things you might not otherwise think of yourself. Let other help you, and help others in return. All this petty hoarding of 'my' ideas is juvenille, and ultimately pointless.
Edit: Hmm...that'll teach me to post a couple of hours after reading the thread. Edward seems to have already covered my idea...just more tersely. Go Edward! See, someone else had the same idea :p
#10
But you also brought up another point, making it happen is what counts. I don't have a way to do anything with them now, I have crap for a PC, no cash to work with, and no way to go to college. All I can try to do is find a way to get things rolling, get into a company or group, and hopefully get a chance to work on it.
Like I tried to tell someone else before, I'm a hitchhiker walking along the side of the road, waiting for a ride, and though the travel is slow, I'll get to my destination one way or another, even if it means crawling! And once I get there, who ever gave me a ride or helped me out will get a good size chunk out of the slab of gold I've been holding back!
And this is 24k gold I'm holding onto!
05/03/2001 (10:57 am)
You are correct in some sense, but it's not just the idea that I'm worried about, it's the advances the idea takes advantage of. Yes I would like input from others, but there are tons of people who make a living out of taking others' well thought out work and producing it themselves and then claiming originality.But you also brought up another point, making it happen is what counts. I don't have a way to do anything with them now, I have crap for a PC, no cash to work with, and no way to go to college. All I can try to do is find a way to get things rolling, get into a company or group, and hopefully get a chance to work on it.
Like I tried to tell someone else before, I'm a hitchhiker walking along the side of the road, waiting for a ride, and though the travel is slow, I'll get to my destination one way or another, even if it means crawling! And once I get there, who ever gave me a ride or helped me out will get a good size chunk out of the slab of gold I've been holding back!
And this is 24k gold I'm holding onto!
#11
05/03/2001 (11:15 am)
Just calling 'em like I see 'em, Scott ;)
#12
I think my site www.cliffhangergames.com offers a solution. I'm promoting Episodic Games. You can try out your 'radical' idea as a pilot episode (just like TV shows). If it's successful, continue with further episodes. If it's unsuccessful, listen to feedback, maybe you can continue the concept with minor changes. If it's completely unsuccessful, you've minimised your effort by producing it in episode form. Another big plus for Episodic Games is the oppurtunity to develop your game with time. Just look at successful TV shows, the way the stories evolve (even producing spin-off shows).
On the point of stolen ideas. I favour the view of the guy who said many people are probably having the same idea. However, only a few put the idea into action. Yes, people will copy it (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery). Nevertheless, the one way to guarentee your idea will fail is..not to do anything with it:).
Please check out my site and give me feedback. It's aiming for a mid July launch. I'm adding content to it now. If you'd like to suggest a game to add or if you'd like to post news, reviews, interviews or any other content please get in touch.
Cheers
Jonathan
05/03/2001 (11:45 am)
On the point of radical ideas:I think my site www.cliffhangergames.com offers a solution. I'm promoting Episodic Games. You can try out your 'radical' idea as a pilot episode (just like TV shows). If it's successful, continue with further episodes. If it's unsuccessful, listen to feedback, maybe you can continue the concept with minor changes. If it's completely unsuccessful, you've minimised your effort by producing it in episode form. Another big plus for Episodic Games is the oppurtunity to develop your game with time. Just look at successful TV shows, the way the stories evolve (even producing spin-off shows).
On the point of stolen ideas. I favour the view of the guy who said many people are probably having the same idea. However, only a few put the idea into action. Yes, people will copy it (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery). Nevertheless, the one way to guarentee your idea will fail is..not to do anything with it:).
Please check out my site and give me feedback. It's aiming for a mid July launch. I'm adding content to it now. If you'd like to suggest a game to add or if you'd like to post news, reviews, interviews or any other content please get in touch.
Cheers
Jonathan
#13
05/03/2001 (11:49 am)
For my 2 cents worth i dont post ideas i think of that are taking a different approach, until ive put a lot of thought into it and fleshed it out at least on paper to see if there is a possibilty of it succeeding, then if think its worth it ill post my thoughts for some feedback, no one can realy steal an idea anyway, thats prepostrous as it would never be what it was supposed to be with out the original "visionary" working on it anyway, people have similar ideas but never the same idea.
#14
But its still somethign to work towards. We have a heap of features that are amazingly awesome and I wouldnt want to give them away. I would only post these features/ideas if the game was almost ready to go gold. (if we were working on a commercial product)
Caliban
05/03/2001 (11:49 pm)
The design doc we have written for our rpg is absolutly huge. and most probably a little to radical. But its still somethign to work towards. We have a heap of features that are amazingly awesome and I wouldnt want to give them away. I would only post these features/ideas if the game was almost ready to go gold. (if we were working on a commercial product)
Caliban
#15
People will share or hide as they see fit, all we can do is tell them it rarely matters. Execution counts ;)
05/04/2001 (6:46 am)
Design docs are different.People will share or hide as they see fit, all we can do is tell them it rarely matters. Execution counts ;)
#16
Zib: I like your point about the difference between the idea and the vision. Ideas can be explained, but visions are only understandable as a completed work. And even if you were to share a vision, the other person will have a completely different interpretation.
-insert some meaningful summary here- Share, hide, do what you like. I'll continue to share mine. There's certainly no way I can use all of them anyway. Plus, I like the feedback I can get from other ppl.
05/04/2001 (7:43 am)
True on both counts, Edward. No matter how much you try to convince them otherwise, most ppl are too used to the 'secret research' mentality. Thank you big business. Of course, they're starting to realize this fact, too. Like just recently Intel, AMD, and that other cpu maker (you know, the -other- one) got together and funded a third party company to develop uv lithography, then share it amongst themselves. Much cheaper and faster than each company developing it on their own.Zib: I like your point about the difference between the idea and the vision. Ideas can be explained, but visions are only understandable as a completed work. And even if you were to share a vision, the other person will have a completely different interpretation.
-insert some meaningful summary here- Share, hide, do what you like. I'll continue to share mine. There's certainly no way I can use all of them anyway. Plus, I like the feedback I can get from other ppl.
William Finlayson