V12/Serious Sam Engine
by Shawn · in General Discussion · 05/01/2001 (4:14 pm) · 30 replies
Anyone building levels with Serious Sam and what do you think? Is it worth the 75K licensing fee or does V12 woop its but ? I do not have Tribes 2 so I cant comment on V12. Just looking for pros/cons.
#2
-Robert
05/01/2001 (6:55 pm)
I havn't played Tribes 2 yet but I can tell you that the Serious Sam engine is sweet. I really doubt that the game itself uses the full potential of that engine.-Robert
#3
Serious Sam does very nice interiors but I found their exteriors to either be big and flat or small and hilly. Tribes 2 handles big and hilly quite well but its interiors tend to be a lot less detailed. This may be because of aesthetic choices on the parts of the level designers or it may be a limitation of the engine. The interiors are detailed enough to make most people happy though. I'm not sure how much scripting support you are going to get with the serious Sam engine but I doubt it is close to the V12's capabilities. The AI in Serious Sam seems to reflect this. The V12 seems to have higher system requierments than the Serious Sam engine so if you are concerned about this... My recommendation is that if you are serious (no pun intended) about spending 75K on the Serious Sam engine that you spare $40 to buy Tribes 2 and do a serious comparison.
05/02/2001 (10:48 am)
I have only had a little exposure to the Serious Sam engine but here are my impressions:Serious Sam does very nice interiors but I found their exteriors to either be big and flat or small and hilly. Tribes 2 handles big and hilly quite well but its interiors tend to be a lot less detailed. This may be because of aesthetic choices on the parts of the level designers or it may be a limitation of the engine. The interiors are detailed enough to make most people happy though. I'm not sure how much scripting support you are going to get with the serious Sam engine but I doubt it is close to the V12's capabilities. The AI in Serious Sam seems to reflect this. The V12 seems to have higher system requierments than the Serious Sam engine so if you are concerned about this... My recommendation is that if you are serious (no pun intended) about spending 75K on the Serious Sam engine that you spare $40 to buy Tribes 2 and do a serious comparison.
#4
Tribes 2 is INCREDIBLY buggy right now. That is NOT a reflection on the engine itself. The people at Dynamix just did a bunch of stupid things -- for instance, there is a memory leak in Tribes 2 on certain systems which makes your fps drop horribly by the second map -- and one time I tried to play the fourth map and got only 6 frames THE ENTIRE MAP. ANd that's counting the loading screen as a frame.
That's Tribes 2 stuff. But if you go into the editor, you really realize how powerful their terrain system is, and how efficient. As for interiors -- the Tribes 2 interiors run BEAUTIFULLY, at over 80fps on my Voodoo3, whenever I'm not inside and not in view of the terrain. The texture detail in the some of the interiors is INCREDIBLE.
I mean, if the Serious Sam engine was being sold on the same terms as the V12, I would get it, because it easily handles large amounts of AIs in-game right out of the box, works great across a variety of platforms, and is perfect for the type of game I'm thinking of (which doesn't have much need for a great terrain engine).
But as it is, it's out of the question. Besides, the GG guys will branch out into other types of engines, if their interviews can be believed. And while the Serious Sam engine is perfect for what I'm thinking of right out of the box, I actually think the V12 would work fine for it as well -- because all I would have to do is eliminate the terrain (which is a shame, but I still have the option of including it if necessary) and use the V12 editor to position my Worldcraft-designed buildings.
05/02/2001 (3:07 pm)
No! Don't do this!Tribes 2 is INCREDIBLY buggy right now. That is NOT a reflection on the engine itself. The people at Dynamix just did a bunch of stupid things -- for instance, there is a memory leak in Tribes 2 on certain systems which makes your fps drop horribly by the second map -- and one time I tried to play the fourth map and got only 6 frames THE ENTIRE MAP. ANd that's counting the loading screen as a frame.
That's Tribes 2 stuff. But if you go into the editor, you really realize how powerful their terrain system is, and how efficient. As for interiors -- the Tribes 2 interiors run BEAUTIFULLY, at over 80fps on my Voodoo3, whenever I'm not inside and not in view of the terrain. The texture detail in the some of the interiors is INCREDIBLE.
I mean, if the Serious Sam engine was being sold on the same terms as the V12, I would get it, because it easily handles large amounts of AIs in-game right out of the box, works great across a variety of platforms, and is perfect for the type of game I'm thinking of (which doesn't have much need for a great terrain engine).
But as it is, it's out of the question. Besides, the GG guys will branch out into other types of engines, if their interviews can be believed. And while the Serious Sam engine is perfect for what I'm thinking of right out of the box, I actually think the V12 would work fine for it as well -- because all I would have to do is eliminate the terrain (which is a shame, but I still have the option of including it if necessary) and use the V12 editor to position my Worldcraft-designed buildings.
#5
Probably is the reason they aren't releasing it yet, it would cause other games to be buggy, costing them even more money...
05/03/2001 (5:15 am)
Buggy? Sounds like it.Probably is the reason they aren't releasing it yet, it would cause other games to be buggy, costing them even more money...
#6
Computer 1: Pentium III 800MHz, 256MB RAM, GeForce256
Computer 2: Pentium III 600MHz, 256MB RAM, GeForce2 MX
It may be your Voodoo3 drivers? Just a thought.
Chris, buy the game.
05/04/2001 (6:15 am)
Buggy? I have not had any problems. Tested on 2 different computers (both single player and online). Both have Windows ME.Computer 1: Pentium III 800MHz, 256MB RAM, GeForce256
Computer 2: Pentium III 600MHz, 256MB RAM, GeForce2 MX
It may be your Voodoo3 drivers? Just a thought.
Chris, buy the game.
#7
Buggy? I have not had any problems. Tested on 2 different computers (both single player and online). Both have Windows ME.
Computer 1: Pentium III 800MHz, 256MB RAM, GeForce256
Computer 2: Pentium III 600MHz, 256MB RAM, GeForce2 MX
It may be your Voodoo3 drivers? Just a thought.
Chris, buy the game."
I have a Pentium III 733MHz, 384MB RAM, GeForce2 GTS 64MB
and run it on Windows 98 SE. I have not run into any problems either.
The game rocks.
05/04/2001 (6:55 am)
Quote"Buggy? I have not had any problems. Tested on 2 different computers (both single player and online). Both have Windows ME.
Computer 1: Pentium III 800MHz, 256MB RAM, GeForce256
Computer 2: Pentium III 600MHz, 256MB RAM, GeForce2 MX
It may be your Voodoo3 drivers? Just a thought.
Chris, buy the game."
I have a Pentium III 733MHz, 384MB RAM, GeForce2 GTS 64MB
and run it on Windows 98 SE. I have not run into any problems either.
The game rocks.
#8
05/04/2001 (8:18 am)
Tribes 2 was pretty buggy when it was released but like 95% of that has been fixed with the patches since then. I think most people still complaining about the bugginess are those who haven't applied all of the latest patches.
#9
Downloading all those patches must be a pain!
I hope the engine is working good before we start creating *our* games for it...
05/05/2001 (4:09 am)
Well, buggy at first.Downloading all those patches must be a pain!
I hope the engine is working good before we start creating *our* games for it...
#10
Never had problems out of the box on either computer. Patches are applied automatically when you log on for an online game.
Chris, buy the game.
05/05/2001 (6:55 am)
Chris, buy the game.Never had problems out of the box on either computer. Patches are applied automatically when you log on for an online game.
Chris, buy the game.
#12
05/05/2001 (8:38 am)
Scott Casey: Chris is right.The game was terribly buggy for me at the begginging (I've got a Win2K machine) and I couldn't play the game for more than 30 minutes without my machine locking up.But with the last patch,everything works fine. :)
#13
1) Bought the game
2) Played the game
3) Played with editor
4) Looked at other engine editors (like QRadient, WorldCraft, or DEdit)
5) Studied what it actually takes to create a game engine
6) Create a design document of whatever title he is working on to determine what the engine requirements are going to be and either:
a) Write an engine from scratch
b) Modify an existing engine's source
c) Write a mod for an existing game
d) Scale his design based on what engine is available to him (at his price level and technical expertise)
I can say that I have not experienced any of the issues that other people are saying that they have, and this is running the game on two different systems (a Dell, and one that I put together from scratch).
Judging from his posts, he is definately new to this. Therefore I have been making suggestions so that he may become a little more educated, not just about the technically challenging aspect to creating a game (or simulation or some other large scale program) but also about the business aspect of the games industry. This isn't a slam Chris, but you are looking in the wrong places for the magic plug-n-play aspect to creating a game that you are searching for. There is no point and click solution to creating a game, it is a lot of hard work. And you have to work within the confines of the economy of scale that current game development tools have to offer. If creating these virtual worlds were so easy then we wouldn't need engineers anymore (and I would be out of a job!!!), however it is getting easier all the time.
Sorry for the rant.
And Chris, buy the game!
05/05/2001 (9:43 am)
How would he know (that and his comments about what the V12 engine can and cannot do)? He doesn't have the game, hasn't played the game, and judging from his posts he won't buy it either. So then why is he commenting on hearsay? Most of the answers he is seeking could be answered if he:1) Bought the game
2) Played the game
3) Played with editor
4) Looked at other engine editors (like QRadient, WorldCraft, or DEdit)
5) Studied what it actually takes to create a game engine
6) Create a design document of whatever title he is working on to determine what the engine requirements are going to be and either:
a) Write an engine from scratch
b) Modify an existing engine's source
c) Write a mod for an existing game
d) Scale his design based on what engine is available to him (at his price level and technical expertise)
I can say that I have not experienced any of the issues that other people are saying that they have, and this is running the game on two different systems (a Dell, and one that I put together from scratch).
Judging from his posts, he is definately new to this. Therefore I have been making suggestions so that he may become a little more educated, not just about the technically challenging aspect to creating a game (or simulation or some other large scale program) but also about the business aspect of the games industry. This isn't a slam Chris, but you are looking in the wrong places for the magic plug-n-play aspect to creating a game that you are searching for. There is no point and click solution to creating a game, it is a lot of hard work. And you have to work within the confines of the economy of scale that current game development tools have to offer. If creating these virtual worlds were so easy then we wouldn't need engineers anymore (and I would be out of a job!!!), however it is getting easier all the time.
Sorry for the rant.
And Chris, buy the game!
#14
05/05/2001 (9:59 am)
oh...he doesn't have the game? Nevermind then :p
#15
I think V12 will be extremely powerfull once they work out the kinks.
05/05/2001 (5:26 pm)
I havnt looked too much at the serious engine, But the thing that draws me to the tribes2 engine mainly is the ability to do outdoor terrains and the HUGE list of features it sports! portals, level of detail, terrain generation and texturing not to mention award winning network code. I think V12 will be extremely powerfull once they work out the kinks.
#16
With V12, you don't get the Tribes 2 source.
05/05/2001 (7:38 pm)
I can think of one distinct advantage to the Serious Engine. You get the source to the actual Serious Sam game. With V12, you don't get the Tribes 2 source.
#17
Neither comes close to the Q3 engine. Question is, what held them back? Design choice or engine limitation?
05/05/2001 (8:02 pm)
Hmmm. I'm not sure I would consider the interior Serious Sam levels all that wonderful. They're very blocky. More blocky that your average Half-life map, I'd say. Tribes 2 doesn't seem to have very complex interiors either. Neither comes close to the Q3 engine. Question is, what held them back? Design choice or engine limitation?
#18
The best thing about the Serious Sam Engine so far is the integrated editor and the lighting that can be added.
05/05/2001 (8:12 pm)
Well I took some advice from above and I went and bought the game. The terrains are wonderful, and its darn exciting to play when it works. I have to agree with Wael on the buggines. After downloading all the patches and fiddling with the install on different machines I am finally able to play it. The game still continuosly locks up :(, but looks fabulous, just sad to see so many bugs. Still looking forward to the engine.The best thing about the Serious Sam Engine so far is the integrated editor and the lighting that can be added.
#19
go grab quake source code :)
05/05/2001 (8:30 pm)
I dont think it will be that bad, there are plenty of code examples around for camera movement etcgo grab quake source code :)
#20
It still runs poorly, but that is because my system is one of the very, very few that is still affected by the memory leak problem. I went to analogx.com and got their memory manager, though -- after every map, I flush the memory. Now I can actually play Tribes 2! w00t!
In fact, I am very unhappy about Tribes 2 working so well. I really don't see how I am going to be able to make a game when I can play one that is so nearly perfect.
I must go now. There are still many devious wankers out there in the wilderzone that have yet to encounter one of my discs in mid air. Not to mention the bomber! Ooh! My little brother and I and my best friend took out the bomber for a spin on Recalescence! w00t! The tailgunner had an ammo pack, so we had like five minutes worth of flares, because they didn't put any rocket turret barrels on the base turrets, and only had a few guys on the roof. We blew the shit out of everything above-ground, and dropped explosive terror on all the entrances! I was driving, and I'd be nosing that sucker around corners and deep through the ravines -- suddenly, out of nowhere, BOOM we lay plasma bombs on the group of sorry suckers clustered around the just-repaired vehicle pad OH THE CARNAGE!!!
Mm. Tribes 2. Mmmm.
05/05/2001 (10:10 pm)
Yeah, the auto-updater is wonderful. I would die if I had to install all of those patches manually. Ack.It still runs poorly, but that is because my system is one of the very, very few that is still affected by the memory leak problem. I went to analogx.com and got their memory manager, though -- after every map, I flush the memory. Now I can actually play Tribes 2! w00t!
In fact, I am very unhappy about Tribes 2 working so well. I really don't see how I am going to be able to make a game when I can play one that is so nearly perfect.
I must go now. There are still many devious wankers out there in the wilderzone that have yet to encounter one of my discs in mid air. Not to mention the bomber! Ooh! My little brother and I and my best friend took out the bomber for a spin on Recalescence! w00t! The tailgunner had an ammo pack, so we had like five minutes worth of flares, because they didn't put any rocket turret barrels on the base turrets, and only had a few guys on the roof. We blew the shit out of everything above-ground, and dropped explosive terror on all the entrances! I was driving, and I'd be nosing that sucker around corners and deep through the ravines -- suddenly, out of nowhere, BOOM we lay plasma bombs on the group of sorry suckers clustered around the just-repaired vehicle pad OH THE CARNAGE!!!
Mm. Tribes 2. Mmmm.
Torque 3D Owner J.C. Smith
The serious engine is very nice. Considering it's price in comparison to other big engine licenses the price is right as well.
Unless you were planning on making an engine which centers around outdoor terrain I think that the Serious engine is the better engine. It handles indoor scenes very well and outdoor scenes well enough to get by.
If your on a budget though your probably better off with V12.