Doing an interior based game...questions+suggestions
by Martin Ortiz · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 01/27/2007 (5:28 pm) · 3 replies
I want to do an interior type of game...
From what I understand, for interiors, you need a map editor.
Does this mean the game engine uses maps directly? Or must the map be compiled to bsp form like for the original quake engine?
One of my main grudges against BSP based engines (I realize that the torque engine is not just a BSP based engine), is that the art pipeline for producing content can be horrible, and worse, you're often stuck with old tools that output map/bsp files, rather than using such tools like Maya or XSI.
I'm wondering if the following modification to the Torque engine would be difficult...
Instead of creating the interior environment with brushes...to do this....
1) Create your indoor interior environment with any tool you want (Maya...XSI...3D Max)
You are not constrained in how you create the environment...that is they do not have be "brush compliant"
The output we want will be a DTS file NOT a DIF file.
2) Using what you made in step 1
Create a bounding box for all the rooms. Where there are doors, add our portals here.
THIS is what is what will be compiled into DIF file.
I believe this is the approach that the Unigine engine takes (check out their site :http://unigine.com/)
Step #1 solves the problem of having a horrible art pipeline and/or using outdated quakelike tools.
Step #2 provides for a simplified way of creating your portal tree for visibility testing
From what I understand, for interiors, you need a map editor.
Does this mean the game engine uses maps directly? Or must the map be compiled to bsp form like for the original quake engine?
One of my main grudges against BSP based engines (I realize that the torque engine is not just a BSP based engine), is that the art pipeline for producing content can be horrible, and worse, you're often stuck with old tools that output map/bsp files, rather than using such tools like Maya or XSI.
I'm wondering if the following modification to the Torque engine would be difficult...
Instead of creating the interior environment with brushes...to do this....
1) Create your indoor interior environment with any tool you want (Maya...XSI...3D Max)
You are not constrained in how you create the environment...that is they do not have be "brush compliant"
The output we want will be a DTS file NOT a DIF file.
2) Using what you made in step 1
Create a bounding box for all the rooms. Where there are doors, add our portals here.
THIS is what is what will be compiled into DIF file.
I believe this is the approach that the Unigine engine takes (check out their site :http://unigine.com/)
Step #1 solves the problem of having a horrible art pipeline and/or using outdated quakelike tools.
Step #2 provides for a simplified way of creating your portal tree for visibility testing
#2
this is what I meant.
the steps are just reversed....
(step 2) So u create the "bounding boxs" (DIFs),
(step 1) and place the rooms in them
01/27/2007 (5:43 pm)
You will lost portaling unless you modify the engine accordingly (or actually create your DIF's and place your DTS "rooms" inside of them...this is what I meant.
the steps are just reversed....
(step 2) So u create the "bounding boxs" (DIFs),
(step 1) and place the rooms in them
#3
1. Create mesh levels.
2. Import mesh data into BSP editor.
3. Create BSP data to properly portal/ perform collisions.
4. Place everything correctly in world editor.
Recommended way for TGE/Unreal/etc:
1. Create BSP level skeletons.
2. Convert to mesh format and load into Max/Maya/Lightwave/etc
3. Detail and export.
4. Place everything correctly in World editor.
I'm not sure, but I think that if you create a full level and export it as a DTS, and portal it, you will not actually be portaling the DTS image, but only the DIF. If the DTS is linked to the portaled area and it is culled, the entire level will disappear since you have moved out of the linked portal zone. Again, I'm not sure.
Now, if you create level pieces and link them and then portal them in and out as needed, you might be a step ahead of rendering everything at once. But I don't know. I don't think it would be much of a workflow improvement since it would still require BSP compilation and switching of a couple of steps.
01/27/2007 (5:59 pm)
Let's see. Your proposed workflow:1. Create mesh levels.
2. Import mesh data into BSP editor.
3. Create BSP data to properly portal/ perform collisions.
4. Place everything correctly in world editor.
Recommended way for TGE/Unreal/etc:
1. Create BSP level skeletons.
2. Convert to mesh format and load into Max/Maya/Lightwave/etc
3. Detail and export.
4. Place everything correctly in World editor.
I'm not sure, but I think that if you create a full level and export it as a DTS, and portal it, you will not actually be portaling the DTS image, but only the DIF. If the DTS is linked to the portaled area and it is culled, the entire level will disappear since you have moved out of the linked portal zone. Again, I'm not sure.
Now, if you create level pieces and link them and then portal them in and out as needed, you might be a step ahead of rendering everything at once. But I don't know. I don't think it would be much of a workflow improvement since it would still require BSP compilation and switching of a couple of steps.
Associate David Montgomery-Blake
David MontgomeryBlake
I can understand why you want this, and I can understand why engines like Unreal 3 still use bsp (though have a tighter pipeline).
You will have to make some engine changes to get what you are proposing to work, and most likely adjust your workflow and toolset. One of the unfortunate things about being indies is that we often do not have tool programmers making our lives as convenient as professional houses. Not that the tools are often user friendly, but are "get it done" tools.