When will the Constructor be released?

#41 @Sun Yu

If it were only a day or a month nobody would argue that you should wait for Constructor. But the reality is that it is more like a 6 months to a year until it is released.

#42 David, you might don't know our situation exactly. I agreed part of your point, but my men can not read english as good as you. Changing tools is a big cost. Currently we are making things except the structures, but in the not far future we will do it. So I asked here if there is an exact date.

Anton, it's hard for me to believe that it needs another 6 months to a year for the release.

#43 I know I don't understand your situation completely, which is why I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't being harsh with you. I was trying to tell people that they need to work with the tools available to them now and not wait for an indefinite release.

Quark has a lot of documentation, that is available. 3DWS, not nearly as much. While translation is an issue and you know English, it might be worth a little research to see how well Google Translate, Babelfish, or Worldlingo translate the online Quark documentation. It, of course, will not be a good translation, but it may be usable enough for your team to use a free tool to create interiors until Constructor is released. And once they get used to using Quark, they will need the documentation less and less. It is the initial learning curve that is a problem.

Constructor will require a goodly amount of translation work as well, but familiarity with other CSG tools such as Quark and Radiant and 3D World Studio and Hammer will ensure your team gets up to speed quickly. Familiarity with the interface in Modo would also be a good bit of experience from a UI point-of-view. Modo is extremely intuitive to manipulate and get around in. However, you need not know the intricacies of it. Just watching some of the UI presentation videos at Luxology will give you an idea of some of the nice UI workflow features that Constructor has adopted.

But don't doubt a longer release schedule. It is going strong in beta, but there are features and documentation and bugs to iron out, like any major software package. Documentation alone can set the release back. And for your purposes, strong documentation that can be consistently translated is of utmost importance. I do not know any of the internals about what GG considers "feature complete" in Constructor versus where Constructor is currently at in the list, but it is rather safe to say that it will require some more time. Possibly (and quite probably) more time than your project can wait.

#44 People do not think about the need to re educate people for a new tool, it is a big time waster and cost's allot of money..

I defently understand you Sun Yu, I don't think its very professional to say it's done when it's done. Making a good time schedule was the first thing they thought us in school, arranging every minute and hour of every day, we would get lower grades if we finish a project to late, and to early for that matter, as it's a weakness in planing, and should not be rewarded.

I like the hole, love and understanding there is in this community, but I think its quite obvious that GG does not intend to step up, from the garage(pun intended) and in to a more professional state..

seems like they are having allot of fun, just doesn't cut it for other than indies and hobbyist..

sorry to sound like a party pooper, but this hole thing and the 6 months what ever, makes me sad :'(

#45 @Paul
It makes perfect sense, but, and here is the big but, in a professional environment you must create realistic goals based around what you can legitimately mark and reach. If you do not have a programming team, I would not recommend using TGEA in its EA state unless every feature is exactly the feature you are looking for and will need no engine enhancements. Likewise, when putting together a project timeline and seeing no definite date on the release of Constructor would make any team which has a project timeline in a real-world situation look at alternatives to Constructor.

That's not happy feel-good hippy shit. That's what you have to do in business. And if you have to educate people on an existing, but not nearly as feature-rich tool as the one which you do not have access to, then you need to make a decision to do so.

One of the key reasons that GG has not provided a solid release date in the past is to avoid companies planning around a specific feature and then waiting on it. Because if the release date slips, as they often do, then the companies in question will complain. Rather than that, people should utilize what works now. Sure, it may mean that your company is creating something that may be implemented in a future version of the engine, but it also means that you game is on the way to production rather than in limbo. The sequel can use the nifty new features. But right now, teams rarely get to the sequel stage because they wait on features or products while in the initial stage.

GG does have an internal schedule, but what people are asking for is a public one so that they can wait for release or work on other aspects. But they could be working on those other aspects right now. Constructor is not out and not everyone who wants it is on the beta team. Well, the obvious solution is to use something else. And there is more than one something else out there, whether it be tools or engines.

It's easy to stand on the outside and comment about what we see through the window. I know. I do it all the time. But there is no reason that teams cannot use existing tools, train their staff on existing tools, and make their games. It will take time, yes. But it will also be time well spent if they want to get something done. Luckily, Yu's team is working on other aspects, but they will have to make a decision very soon, and most likely that decision will be to go with a third-party product for interiors to complete their product. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is a necessary business decision.

EDIT: I screwed up closing my bold tag.

#46 Still, an update would be nice. Last I heard beta was drawing to an end and it seemed like release was imminent. That's been a couple months ago I think, without a peep since. Are we looking at this month? This quarter? This year?

#47 Sun Yu,
There is always an alternative. Hire someone who knows how to use QuArK, 3d World Studio or DeleD :P

#48 Hey all,

sorry I did not get to this sooner. I have been head down working on the details of getting a lot of our projects to the finish line.

I am not going to throw out a date and have everyone screaming if we don't have it exactly on that day. It is most definitely much closer than 6 months.

I am not going to make excuses or try to deflect criticism. It is not getting done as fast as we internally would like it to be done, but this is not because we have been slacking.

We have made some decisions over the past few years (MBU on XBLA, Torque X) that we had to jump on. We did this because we felt it necessary to stick our foot in the door of some of the larger distribution platforms and hold it open, lest it get slammed shut.

Some of these decisions we did not make lightly, and we are not regretting our decisions of where we allocated resources. Constructor is important to us, but so is making sure that 'indies' are not stuck on the outside looking in.

The tool pipeline and the workflow issues are not things we are ignoring either. We updated TGE to 1.5, TGB has been steadily improving steadily (with a big documentation push this last year), TGEA is close to being done, and as part of the process of working on our engines, we shipped two games (Rack'em Up and MBU) that used the technology we are creating, to put it through a real trial by fire.

We are not sitting on our butts doing nothing. We are pushing hard to get things done, and they will be out as soon as we can get them to you.

In terms of planning. We plan a lot, but there are things that you just cannot plan. Now that we are in the final stages, we have a clear plan and task lists and timelines. Earlier in the project, it is impossible to predict how long certain things take. task list items like 'make workflow that does not suck' can be very hard to plan out, attach a time value to, and itemize tasks for.

In terms of our tools, our big challenge here was to make a tool that we felt had the quality necessary to be a product that would enable people to create with it. It is a large task, and a certain level of quality was our goal. Our quality targets have been achieved, and we are now working on the 'other' that needs to get done in order for constructor to be done.

We are not expecting any huge problems, but I am not going to make a promise and then not keep it by deciding to slip a few days to fix a bug (instead of shipping with known issues). Each one of these we are taking as they come, and making decisions as to the severity of the issue and the timeline we have established internally.

At the moment, the biggest issue I am facing is QA scheduling for all of our soon to be released projects. If all goes well and we don't find something un-expected, we should be in good shape to announce things very soon.

I don't want to throw out a blanket, 'we will ship it when it is done'... it is very close, and there is a lot of little things we need to address to get it ready. We are talking sooner rather than later, and the lack of 'peeping' on this has a lot more to do with everyone having there head down and pushing hard getting these things done instead of hanging out on the forums talking about it. If this is a problem for people, please email me directly and I will take the blame for not handling the PR side as well as I should be.

If you are very concerned about the state of constructor, please email me and make me a case for getting you on the closed beta list. Please note that the last thing I need right now is to be managing list of users, responding to emails, and taking my time responding to threads like this. The more time I am spending handling external issues, the less time I am spending handling the task of getting things done.

Consider this an update, and I hope, time permitting, to be able to do a more official update in the near future.

#49 Thank you for the (detailed) update Joe! It's nice to have at least an estimated date :)

#50 Yes. Thanks for the update! It's nice to get a heartbeat every once in a while, too, if just to ward off skepticism. I look forward to modding the crap out of it when it's done...

#51 You handle the PR side fine. The Constructing series was excellent.

If we could get an Early Adopter program at full price. I don't want a discount for the product because I think whatever the price is gonna be beyond fair. Just a suggestion.

Like if it's close to ship then forget the EA idea. I don't think anyone thinks people are sitting around. But there is a customer focus on this as Constructor is a huge part of the pie that's been missing.

Sorry but Quark is worse the waterboarding and out of respect since it works ok, I'll just say I didn't want to use 3dws either. Constructor is like a nice Italian hotbread, you can see it.. smell it ... but can't taste it yet.

lol..

#52 Thanks Vashner, now you're making me hungry!
Props for the update here too, I'm looking forward to the next announcements. Or videos. Or Screenshots. Or Documentation. Or... Well anything to do with Constructor. I need a hit! Please, I'm Beggin ya', Tell Jimmy I'll pay him back next month, I promise, c'mon man! please!

*cough*

Really though, the Constructing Constructor series was awesome, I'd love to read anything that adds to that or gives a look into constructor.
Umm, anyway, a bit off-topic, but do we need an abbreviation for Constructor yet? It's a rather lengthy word to keep typing.

#53 Thanks, Paul and Vashner, you got my points which I can not express exactly in english. ;-)

and thank you all for your information who post in the topic. I never thought this topic would be a big one ;P

From Joe I might get the answer. Torque is no doubt a good and suiltable engine for us, but we hope someday GG can make a develpment platforum covers a product line, it will be very good if the date is countable. ;)

#54 We, the developers, tend to use "c'tor" as shorthand for it.

#55 Well after reading this I think its going to be a while before constructor hits.

#56 Well the case he makes is hard to argue with on its face. The problem concerns the circumstances we find ourselves in. If anything is to come out of that blurb it's that at least he's not publically going to use the "we'll release when its done" cop-out (you've still left the impression that that's your informal work ethic though).

None of us have enough info on GG's internal workings to prove malfeasance, but you've left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Customer expections run the gamut from forgiving to reasonable to insanely wacky, but ever business has to deal with them like it or not. I'd suggest not announcing a project so early next time. No doubt you'll say "but people will think we havent realized the need for this product and tell us to do a like-minded project anyway!"

On a different note, if as a business you cant even in broad terms estimate the length of a job you've got some serious problems. Cost estimates, time estimates and other hallmarks of business planning arent just fluff...they're critical. The idea that software and game software is any different is insane to me. How could you possibly forecast how you're keeping the power bill paid or how to strategically leverage products if you dont know even general ideas as to product launches?

The resources you spent on a social networking site and other tangental projects could have been spent (although expended by different people of course - no one thinks the same people would work on the same projects) on what the people really wanted (liquidated resources that is). Give the people what they want is always the best policy.

Of course GG is pretty bulletproof. You've established a great following that you can rest upon, but nagging problems like the Constructor release erode that confidence. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow...but over time. We love you guys...we expect more of the great same you've given us in the past.

We love your products but even with alternatives you're letting down the public in many of our eyes.
That's merely my opinion which is worth only what its worth.

#57 Alfred; You should build your product with the resources that are available not the ones that are in the works. I started my project 2 years ago when Constructor was on the Website coming soon. Time went on learned Quark, then I bought 3DWS. My game is less than a year from being finished. I'm creating it with XSI and 3DWS. The XSI exporters come out this weekend and 3DWS is already out. My friend who is helping me says he has never seen so much violence, Gore, and blood in a game. Not even in Gears Of War.

#58 Here are a couple of facts you may or may not know about Constructor:

* There are 3 external contractors working on it in addition to internal resources.
* Many of you are already reaping benefits from c'tor's development in the code that has filtered back into the main engines. For example, the TGB Level Builder's GUI improvements are based on c'tor code.
* Threads like this one that force c'tor developers to answer cost an hour or two's development time.

Make of that what you will.

T.

#59 I want to reap the benefits of World Editor undo/redo.

*whip-crack!*

#60 Yeah and intergrate a Make Ham & Chesse sandwich with a Mt. Dew button! :)

Hehe but honestly should use the tools that are out there they arent that bad ....cept for quark /shudder. I gave up waiting for Contructor and bought 3DWS which is doing a fine job for me tho abit costly but it works. If contructor is all that and bag of chips i'll buy it specially if theres a TSE version*cough*. :p