Multiple People Working on One Terrain
by Chris Frankie · in Torque Game Engine · 12/15/2006 (9:36 pm) · 17 replies
Here at the school we are trying to figure out how to create a 'world' in 3ds Max and then make sections of it editable by different students to allow them to 'create' cities, dungeons, whatever their fancy as projects to this persistent world....
Is this possible? Has anyone had any luck creating a large scale world that can be edited by multiple people and if so - how was that implemeneted?
Inquiring Minds would like to know (as well as the 60 plus students)... :)
Is this possible? Has anyone had any luck creating a large scale world that can be edited by multiple people and if so - how was that implemeneted?
Inquiring Minds would like to know (as well as the 60 plus students)... :)
About the author
#2
12/15/2006 (9:52 pm)
Perhaps - TGE is suppose to handle large amounts of Zoning - or so it says.... I've not seen anything yet as to how to use these 'zones' or anything else like that.... but if anyone has any ideas as to the best approach for this - I would love to read up on it! 
#3
12/15/2006 (9:56 pm)
One really ham-handed way to do it is to have each 'zone' be a separate mission file. However, the obvious drawback of this is that one 'mission area' is not visible by the adjacent 'mission areas'. I think I've come across a thread or resource here that discussed the issues involved with allowing this sort of arrangement, but unfortunately, I can't find it at the moment -- It involved how to simulate large-scale Atlas type terrain with TGE.
#4
12/15/2006 (9:58 pm)
That would be a great read for sure - thanks for any help so far -- I am sitting here reading as much as I can find on any topics I can.... Tis all great stuff so far.
#5
12/15/2006 (10:14 pm)
Searching on things like 'terrain paging' might turn up some interesting tidbits.
#6
12/15/2006 (10:15 pm)
Giving that a try now....
#7
12/15/2006 (10:23 pm)
I would imagine that a server farm, where each mission file is hosted on a separate (real or virtual) machine, would be a big help in something like this. Otherwise, I'd add 'multiple missions' to your search regime.
#8
12/15/2006 (10:35 pm)
Poo - great information so far - but still not quite in the section of multiple creators working on one world to create a seamless world for playing in.... Gotta keep trying ... Searching deeper!
#9
DISCLAIMER: I am just throwing out what comes into my head late on a Friday night after being liberated by more than a few Guinness Extra Stouts. This whole approach may or may not be utter and complete garbage. I'll know better tommorrow.... :)
12/15/2006 (10:43 pm)
I don't think anyone has ever done what you're talking about doing. I think, out of the box, Torque only allows editing by the machine serving the mission. If you can crack that, then the whole zoning idea is just a way to deal with it a bit easier (each player hosts the mission are they are able to edit, etc...). Getting a Torque instance to act as both client and server might actually be your first step.DISCLAIMER: I am just throwing out what comes into my head late on a Friday night after being liberated by more than a few Guinness Extra Stouts. This whole approach may or may not be utter and complete garbage. I'll know better tommorrow.... :)
#10
Then the students could, let's say, make a city..... that city could then be placed on the world somewhere.....
While another student creates, oh--- I don't know, a large forrested area, which could also be placed on this 'world' somewhere...
The question is: can this be done all at once, or will the students have to 'share' this world one at a time to allow for this to work?
Not too interested in players having a say so in the world... just the creators being able to collaborate easily.
Let's say I take home the 'world' and work on my little slive of it... while the other instructor works on a different section all together. How would we allow these two different areas be put in the same 'world' map again? Since the 'world' is techincally the same already, just with 2 different areas edited...
That's where I am trying to head.... at least for now.... :)
12/16/2006 (11:38 pm)
Well, the idea was to create one main 'world'.Then the students could, let's say, make a city..... that city could then be placed on the world somewhere.....
While another student creates, oh--- I don't know, a large forrested area, which could also be placed on this 'world' somewhere...
The question is: can this be done all at once, or will the students have to 'share' this world one at a time to allow for this to work?
Not too interested in players having a say so in the world... just the creators being able to collaborate easily.
Let's say I take home the 'world' and work on my little slive of it... while the other instructor works on a different section all together. How would we allow these two different areas be put in the same 'world' map again? Since the 'world' is techincally the same already, just with 2 different areas edited...
That's where I am trying to head.... at least for now.... :)
#11
While I haven't looked in detail into any of this, as none of my current projects requires users to be able to modify the mission files real-time, I'd suggest starting by examining the mission editor script and C++ files, and see if any of them rely on globals that would require the editor to be on the same Torque instance as the mission file server. If you don't find any, then look for where it's restricting the editing client to be in the same Torque instance as the 'server' side, and implement the same restriction using your own criteria (using something not dissimilar to a version control system I'd guess). Sorry for the lack of details, but as I said, I think you're treading where none have treaded before in Torque (successfully, anyway...).
12/17/2006 (12:05 am)
Well, if you can conquer the first 'hurdle' -- getting around TGE's restriction that only the Torque instance serving the misison can edit the mission -- I'd think the rest of the solution was not-so-hard -- integrating some sort of resource/version control on the mission file (NOTE: while 'not-so-hard', it may not be 'easy'...).While I haven't looked in detail into any of this, as none of my current projects requires users to be able to modify the mission files real-time, I'd suggest starting by examining the mission editor script and C++ files, and see if any of them rely on globals that would require the editor to be on the same Torque instance as the mission file server. If you don't find any, then look for where it's restricting the editing client to be in the same Torque instance as the 'server' side, and implement the same restriction using your own criteria (using something not dissimilar to a version control system I'd guess). Sorry for the lack of details, but as I said, I think you're treading where none have treaded before in Torque (successfully, anyway...).
#12
This is not to implement 'real-time' editing...
Just MULTIPLE people editing the SAME WORLD at the SAME TIME, give or take...
It seems so far, that only one person can work on a mission/world at one time. I am trying to see if there is anyway to get the same 1 file available for many people to use at the same time / combine their efforts into one some way or if I need to let each 'Area' of the 'World' be a different Mission/File that needs to be loaded as the players run around in it?
12/17/2006 (6:52 pm)
Oh dear - I seem to have confused everyone in the request...This is not to implement 'real-time' editing...
Just MULTIPLE people editing the SAME WORLD at the SAME TIME, give or take...
It seems so far, that only one person can work on a mission/world at one time. I am trying to see if there is anyway to get the same 1 file available for many people to use at the same time / combine their efforts into one some way or if I need to let each 'Area' of the 'World' be a different Mission/File that needs to be loaded as the players run around in it?
#13
How are these 2 used to the fullest for a game such as a MMO? (* Once again, we are trying to allow the students a place to creatively just populate the world with Quests, Items, Etc. Etc. and places for people to go and things to slaughter. *)
How can I create this large world easily - we have 3Ds Max 8 at our desposal as well as 1.5 TSE - and the students already have a grasp of the scripting and putting together single Mission worlds...
But us instructors and the kiddoes are a little blurry on creating a very large world and somehow allow the different students the ability to put their own content in it as time goes along.... or for us instructors to edit areas as things go along - as in the above example, I could create the lush forests while a different person is working on a city, etc.
I wonder if I shouldn't be doing more research into the Paging and Atlas....
12/17/2006 (6:59 pm)
Ok - I seem to have finally "stumbled" onto something here - Atlas and Paging of a World.How are these 2 used to the fullest for a game such as a MMO? (* Once again, we are trying to allow the students a place to creatively just populate the world with Quests, Items, Etc. Etc. and places for people to go and things to slaughter. *)
How can I create this large world easily - we have 3Ds Max 8 at our desposal as well as 1.5 TSE - and the students already have a grasp of the scripting and putting together single Mission worlds...
But us instructors and the kiddoes are a little blurry on creating a very large world and somehow allow the different students the ability to put their own content in it as time goes along.... or for us instructors to edit areas as things go along - as in the above example, I could create the lush forests while a different person is working on a city, etc.
I wonder if I shouldn't be doing more research into the Paging and Atlas....
#14
Working with the statement of "What if you each took a copy of the mission file to work on your own area," could each person work in a simgroup and then when you want to combine it, merge them into a single mission? I'm just thinking that gives you a nice, easy to spot codeblock to merge.
Disclaimer: I'm an artist, I have no idea of the ramifications of working with various entities in a simgroup. =)
- Don
As far as working at the same time, it is possible that the ham-fisted continuation of my theory would be to try using SVN to do the merging more or les auto-magically. Scary, but maybe it sparks an idea or two.
12/17/2006 (7:18 pm)
Hrmm - this is definitely in the ham-handed approach category, buuuut...Working with the statement of "What if you each took a copy of the mission file to work on your own area," could each person work in a simgroup and then when you want to combine it, merge them into a single mission? I'm just thinking that gives you a nice, easy to spot codeblock to merge.
Disclaimer: I'm an artist, I have no idea of the ramifications of working with various entities in a simgroup. =)
- Don
As far as working at the same time, it is possible that the ham-fisted continuation of my theory would be to try using SVN to do the merging more or les auto-magically. Scary, but maybe it sparks an idea or two.
#15
12/17/2006 (8:56 pm)
I do have to say - this does hurt the head....
#16
12/31/2006 (2:34 pm)
In terms of placing dif shapes, we have created a world that gets loaded and saved to a database. You would have a set of console/chat commands for admins and they are able to place shapes to their liking and then save the world. That way you can unlimitedly edit the world with multiple people at a time. It's the easiest way we could think of and is good enough for us. I have been working on combing the selection code with this so you can actually move buildings with your mouse to but that didnt work to well. It's a good start though.
#17
This sounds very interesting.. but do your levels get relighted everytime you run them?
I thought about a different approach.. an offline Torque program that downloads the mission you want to edit via SVN and if you save it commits the changes to the repository. Since most of the data is text this should work very well.
01/26/2007 (5:04 am)
@Robin Degen:This sounds very interesting.. but do your levels get relighted everytime you run them?
I thought about a different approach.. an offline Torque program that downloads the mission you want to edit via SVN and if you save it commits the changes to the repository. Since most of the data is text this should work very well.
Torque Owner Brian Hill
Good Luck! :D