Having more players
by Skylar Kelty · in Torque Game Engine · 12/15/2006 (11:20 am) · 15 replies
Hi,
In a few weeks ill be starting development of a new game.
I'd love to use TGEA but I have a problem. (yes I know this is the TGE forums, my question isnt TGEA-specific)
The problem is that I will need support of 2-4 million players !
Yeah I know, OMG
TGEA/TGE doesnt support that many players does it?
Is it possible?
Thanks,
James
In a few weeks ill be starting development of a new game.
I'd love to use TGEA but I have a problem. (yes I know this is the TGE forums, my question isnt TGEA-specific)
The problem is that I will need support of 2-4 million players !
Yeah I know, OMG
TGEA/TGE doesnt support that many players does it?
Is it possible?
Thanks,
James
About the author
#2
Forget about the servers, thats not the issue.
I'm talking about TGE/TGEA being able to handle that many players, can it?
12/16/2006 (12:13 am)
I take it thats a no then :)Forget about the servers, thats not the issue.
I'm talking about TGE/TGEA being able to handle that many players, can it?
#3
12/16/2006 (12:41 am)
An easier way could be this, make different servers like one server is hosted in the UK one is in the US so on and each server holds about 2000 players
#4
12/16/2006 (2:48 am)
Like I said, forget about the servers, can TGE/TGEA do 4 million players?
#5
You have the source.. The real question is:
Can you make TGE handle 4 million players?
From a purely practical standpoint, you'll never reach 4 million players online at any one time. Warcraft doesn't even do that. Sure, they got 7 mil subscribers, but they sure don't play all at the same time.
From a realistic standpoint, if you did in fact have the infrastructure in place to handle this much traffic, you wouldn't be posting such a question here.
12/16/2006 (3:06 am)
Can Torque do -insert project specific need here-?You have the source.. The real question is:
Can you make TGE handle 4 million players?
From a purely practical standpoint, you'll never reach 4 million players online at any one time. Warcraft doesn't even do that. Sure, they got 7 mil subscribers, but they sure don't play all at the same time.
From a realistic standpoint, if you did in fact have the infrastructure in place to handle this much traffic, you wouldn't be posting such a question here.
#6
Is it possible to edit the source of TGEA to support 2-4million players?
Will any code changes help?
Or would I need to completely re-write the networking code.
12/16/2006 (3:14 am)
What im trying to ask, but obviously failing, is this:Is it possible to edit the source of TGEA to support 2-4million players?
Will any code changes help?
Or would I need to completely re-write the networking code.
#7
If you on the other hand only have a few thousand at most on each server (this is basically what ALL "massive multiplayer" games do!) you could scale it up to however many players you need, just add more servers. It would definitely take a lot of programming but it's doable.
12/16/2006 (3:21 am)
And what the people around here is trying to tell you is; There are issues here that are not related at all to what engine your using. Basically NO engine is going to handle several million players on the same server at the same time. (imagine sending the data of a million clients to each and every one of those million clients! Even if you had a super fast internet connection, none of your actual players would be able to receive all the data). And even the network issues aside, what exactly are a million players going to DO together!? You run into game design issues here (we actually saw this a bit with Minions of Mirth, when there were too many players, well before the network started to be an issue there was an issue with the players running out of enemies to kill =).If you on the other hand only have a few thousand at most on each server (this is basically what ALL "massive multiplayer" games do!) you could scale it up to however many players you need, just add more servers. It would definitely take a lot of programming but it's doable.
#8
About 2000 people playing at one time, 16 per server slot.
I just said 4 million cuz thats the estimated sale
12/16/2006 (4:09 am)
Lol, not 4 million on one server!About 2000 people playing at one time, 16 per server slot.
I just said 4 million cuz thats the estimated sale
#9
I'm not even going to touch that one.....
12/16/2006 (4:15 am)
Quote:I just said 4 million cuz thats the estimated sale
I'm not even going to touch that one.....
#10
12/16/2006 (4:17 am)
Hey its possible
#11
12/16/2006 (4:17 am)
Lol u all think im stupid dont u?
#12
No, but on serious game development sites (here, gamedev.net and such other) people often come buy with so called "killer ideas", ideas that are bound to get them millions of sales and so forth. This usually isn't out of stupidity but rather enthusiasm and frankly the general lies and propaganda that were spread aorund during the dot com boom of the late ninties. It also comes from the classic idea that a person who plays lots of computer games can design a fantastic game.
If you are after Torque I can safely assume you are aiming for a PC game of some sort. Sales of 4 million are by far the exception rather than the norm for a pc game even more so for independant games (Second life and Counter Strike are the only two example I can think of that would come close). Or in other words you won't get 4 million unless you are an indie company with millions to throw at the project, judging by your posts in this thread, Im fairly safe in saying you do not have millions.
But to answer you actual question, yes torque can easily handle 16 people on a server (assuming you dont fire mp3 files at each other or something daft :P, hmm theres an idea a game that both Jack Thompson and the RIAA can equally hate!), hell small server based online games is what it was originally designed for!
12/16/2006 (4:39 am)
Quote:
Lol u all think im stupid dont u?
No, but on serious game development sites (here, gamedev.net and such other) people often come buy with so called "killer ideas", ideas that are bound to get them millions of sales and so forth. This usually isn't out of stupidity but rather enthusiasm and frankly the general lies and propaganda that were spread aorund during the dot com boom of the late ninties. It also comes from the classic idea that a person who plays lots of computer games can design a fantastic game.
If you are after Torque I can safely assume you are aiming for a PC game of some sort. Sales of 4 million are by far the exception rather than the norm for a pc game even more so for independant games (Second life and Counter Strike are the only two example I can think of that would come close). Or in other words you won't get 4 million unless you are an indie company with millions to throw at the project, judging by your posts in this thread, Im fairly safe in saying you do not have millions.
But to answer you actual question, yes torque can easily handle 16 people on a server (assuming you dont fire mp3 files at each other or something daft :P, hmm theres an idea a game that both Jack Thompson and the RIAA can equally hate!), hell small server based online games is what it was originally designed for!
#13
I know Torque can handle 16 players on a server, but I dont think 2000.
It is 16 per server but all the servers are connected to one main server.
All the players play in one map.
Ah fuck it, sorry for wasting ur time, ill just try out my idea and see
12/16/2006 (6:32 am)
Ye, im so shit at wording, sorryI know Torque can handle 16 players on a server, but I dont think 2000.
It is 16 per server but all the servers are connected to one main server.
All the players play in one map.
Ah fuck it, sorry for wasting ur time, ill just try out my idea and see
#14
errrmmmm no (throwing in a chance that this may answer the question) :)
1) Torque can handle a lot more that 16 on one server.. the number is down to the power of the server and the amount of information being passed between the server and the clients. Optimising your code will improve this, as will the power of the server. (There is NO hard and fast answer to this number limit.. it is TOTALLY dependant on your game and coding that drives this figure).
2) All the servers will need to be connected to a master server of some sort, possibly with database access to maintain information between them. The database stuff you have to build.. lots of resources available to help. Master Server either use Garage Games one, or you will have to build one that works for you.
3) All players on one map.. not necessary... each server can run a different map and you can port between the servers from the client app... but you have to write the code.. again resources help.
2000 people all in the same map on the same server... doubt it unless you are using a mainframe to run the server.
2 million people all playing the same game with the load divided between servers fully possible if your coding skills are good. 2 million people all seeing each other and interacting on the same map at the same time... no engine built will do that that costs less than $500k to license and has a dedicated team of programmers optimising it for a period of years.
Hope that helps.
Graham
12/16/2006 (7:01 am)
Quote:I know Torque can handle 16 players on a server, but I dont think 2000.
It is 16 per server but all the servers are connected to one main server.
All the players play in one map.
errrmmmm no (throwing in a chance that this may answer the question) :)
1) Torque can handle a lot more that 16 on one server.. the number is down to the power of the server and the amount of information being passed between the server and the clients. Optimising your code will improve this, as will the power of the server. (There is NO hard and fast answer to this number limit.. it is TOTALLY dependant on your game and coding that drives this figure).
2) All the servers will need to be connected to a master server of some sort, possibly with database access to maintain information between them. The database stuff you have to build.. lots of resources available to help. Master Server either use Garage Games one, or you will have to build one that works for you.
3) All players on one map.. not necessary... each server can run a different map and you can port between the servers from the client app... but you have to write the code.. again resources help.
2000 people all in the same map on the same server... doubt it unless you are using a mainframe to run the server.
2 million people all playing the same game with the load divided between servers fully possible if your coding skills are good. 2 million people all seeing each other and interacting on the same map at the same time... no engine built will do that that costs less than $500k to license and has a dedicated team of programmers optimising it for a period of years.
Hope that helps.
Graham
#15
12/16/2006 (7:03 am)
Thankyou, you managed to answer my question :) 
Torque Owner Brian Hill
If you have all that, it *might* be possible, but certainly not all on the same map at one time...