TGB Particles Corrupt Themselves?
by Dave Calabrese · in Torque Game Builder · 12/07/2006 (1:56 pm) · 36 replies
I'm sitting here working on a project, when suddenly a bunch of particles stop rendering. It caught me off guard naturally as I wasn't expecting them to just stop playing. Now, they no longer play at all. I was not editing the particles, moving them, touching them or doing anything related to the particles. I now get the following error whenever that particle tries to play:
t2dGraphField::loadStream() - Invalid Stream Header ID!
Any ideas on what's up with this? It's like the particle file just crushed itself and no longer works!
t2dGraphField::loadStream() - Invalid Stream Header ID!
Any ideas on what's up with this? It's like the particle file just crushed itself and no longer works!
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#22
09/17/2007 (5:05 pm)
I'm not working that much with tgb at the moment, but if I get a couple of minutes free I'll go break some eff files for you. It usually pretty easy.... 
#23
We have tried for literally days on end to reproduce this issue and it's gotten to the point that we're going to have to de-prioritize a fix as we just cannot get it to happen.
That said, we absolutely want to fix it for you all, as we know how frustrating it can be to lose data... So here's the deal.
I'm giving away a single FREE Indie license of one of the select GG products listed below, to the first person that can provide a repro case for this bug to us
That means if you can help us find out how to get this bug to happen, in a consistent and reproducible manner, you get a FREE copy of one of the following.
Hopefully you guys can help us help you, and get yourself a little something along the way!
If you are able to reproduce this bug email me justind AT garagegames DOT com with the steps to get it to consistently happen, and I'll award you your prize when it's confirmed.
Also, I'll post here if a repro case emerges so noone wastes their time trying to find out how to repro it after (if) we get a repro case.
Cheers,
-Justin
09/20/2007 (7:20 pm)
Ok guys,We have tried for literally days on end to reproduce this issue and it's gotten to the point that we're going to have to de-prioritize a fix as we just cannot get it to happen.
That said, we absolutely want to fix it for you all, as we know how frustrating it can be to lose data... So here's the deal.
I'm giving away a single FREE Indie license of one of the select GG products listed below, to the first person that can provide a repro case for this bug to us
That means if you can help us find out how to get this bug to happen, in a consistent and reproducible manner, you get a FREE copy of one of the following.
TorqueX Pro - Indie License TorqueX Platformer Starter Kit - Indie License TorqueGameBuilder - Indie License TorqueGameBuilder Pro - Indie License TorqueGameEngine - Indie License
Hopefully you guys can help us help you, and get yourself a little something along the way!
If you are able to reproduce this bug email me justind AT garagegames DOT com with the steps to get it to consistently happen, and I'll award you your prize when it's confirmed.
Also, I'll post here if a repro case emerges so noone wastes their time trying to find out how to repro it after (if) we get a repro case.
Cheers,
-Justin
#24
As to reproducing the issue you may have to borrow some ones machine because it's a consistent issue for me and it happens virtually every time I save a particle effect and reopen the project.
09/20/2007 (7:47 pm)
I'm having major corruption problems that are not only the particle effects but the script files as well. If this is being de-prioritized I can guarantee I'm abandoning Torque all together. I bought commercial licenses for both TGB and TGE and I've yet to be able to finish a single game in part due to all the corruption issues and in part due to the documentation. I've already switched to a different 3D engine but if TGB can't resolve all the bugs I'm abandoning it as well. I've still never gotten a version of 1.5 that runs properly and I got tired of downloading the same version, PLEASE POST VERSION NUMBERS ON THE DOWNLOAD PAGE!As to reproducing the issue you may have to borrow some ones machine because it's a consistent issue for me and it happens virtually every time I save a particle effect and reopen the project.
#25
I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by not having version numbers on the download page... I currently see:
On my download page, with a very apparent version number? Am I misunderstanding your request/difficulty?
09/20/2007 (7:56 pm)
@Cary: I'm sorry you are having issues with file coruption, I remember your bug report about this. I personally have never seen or heard of anyone having this same issue. To further help us discover the issue you could zip up your project or files that are being corrupted and e-mail them to me... mattl AT garagegames DOT com. I'd be happy to take a look and submit it into our bug repo (especially if the case is reproducable).I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by not having version numbers on the download page... I currently see:
Quote:Torque Game Builder Pro 1.5.1 - INDIE License
On my download page, with a very apparent version number? Am I misunderstanding your request/difficulty?
#26
Torque Game Builder Pro - COMMERCIAL License (info)
There's a notation for the version number on TGE but not TGB. When I click for info it just takes me to the product page which also lacks version numbers. The last time I tried to download the PC version two months ago it was still the beta which was unuseable. I made a post or wrote a letter about the Mac version and I was told the problems were being addressed and there would be a version posted in a couple of weeks. I waited but there was no mention of an update so I tried downloading the Mac version again but it was still the buggy beta. I was waiting until the final 1.5 was available to try to finish the one game I did with it but I haven't a clue where it stands since the last time a final version was anounced a month later I was still finding betas on the download.
I haven't even openned the project file in six months so I can't remember the state of it. I know a bunch of the levels had corrupted files and I'm not sure the state of the particles. I had zero luck finding a reliable programmer or scriptor but I put a huge amount of work into the artwork so I hate to walk away from it but it can't be finished with the current state of TGB and it was just a simple side scroller shooter. I got really annoyed when I got the notice and saw that the company was
"it's gotten to the point that we're going to have to de-prioritize a fix as we just cannot get it to happen."
The bugs for me are so critical that the engine is unuseable so hearing they were washing their hands of it after all the money I spent on the commercial license really set me off. I have the issue on multiple machines and other people are having the same problem so it exists. I don't have a clue why the script files were corrupting either but it's a critical bug to me. I'm using another game engine 3D and I'm finding across the board Torque simply isn't stable compared to it so there is obviously a lot of problems. TGB is buggy and the user interface on TGE is virtually nonexistent. There are others with actual interfaces and far more features and power so I don't find TGE worth the time. TGB was interesting for 2D games but unless it can be made more stable it's just not worth the time. I'm dealing with a major hardware disaster right now so I don't have the time to sort out the old project file. I just think the company needs to deal with some real issues with the engine before they move on to new features. There may also be a bug somewhere in the downloading since at last word all I could download were four month old betas. I haven't tried again for a while but it was still spitting out betas a month after it was supposed to be the final release.
09/21/2007 (4:32 am)
Not sure where you're looking but this is the line on my download page. I copied and pasted this from the download page.Torque Game Builder Pro - COMMERCIAL License (info)
There's a notation for the version number on TGE but not TGB. When I click for info it just takes me to the product page which also lacks version numbers. The last time I tried to download the PC version two months ago it was still the beta which was unuseable. I made a post or wrote a letter about the Mac version and I was told the problems were being addressed and there would be a version posted in a couple of weeks. I waited but there was no mention of an update so I tried downloading the Mac version again but it was still the buggy beta. I was waiting until the final 1.5 was available to try to finish the one game I did with it but I haven't a clue where it stands since the last time a final version was anounced a month later I was still finding betas on the download.
I haven't even openned the project file in six months so I can't remember the state of it. I know a bunch of the levels had corrupted files and I'm not sure the state of the particles. I had zero luck finding a reliable programmer or scriptor but I put a huge amount of work into the artwork so I hate to walk away from it but it can't be finished with the current state of TGB and it was just a simple side scroller shooter. I got really annoyed when I got the notice and saw that the company was
"it's gotten to the point that we're going to have to de-prioritize a fix as we just cannot get it to happen."
The bugs for me are so critical that the engine is unuseable so hearing they were washing their hands of it after all the money I spent on the commercial license really set me off. I have the issue on multiple machines and other people are having the same problem so it exists. I don't have a clue why the script files were corrupting either but it's a critical bug to me. I'm using another game engine 3D and I'm finding across the board Torque simply isn't stable compared to it so there is obviously a lot of problems. TGB is buggy and the user interface on TGE is virtually nonexistent. There are others with actual interfaces and far more features and power so I don't find TGE worth the time. TGB was interesting for 2D games but unless it can be made more stable it's just not worth the time. I'm dealing with a major hardware disaster right now so I don't have the time to sort out the old project file. I just think the company needs to deal with some real issues with the engine before they move on to new features. There may also be a bug somewhere in the downloading since at last word all I could download were four month old betas. I haven't tried again for a while but it was still spitting out betas a month after it was supposed to be the final release.
#27
I'm sorry to hear you're so disheartened by the news that we're moving on to fix other bugs. Believe me, we're much more disheartened that we're unable to fix it.
That said, I wanted to clarify my post a bit more, as you seem to be under the impression that we're throwing this bug out, or something similar. That is not true at all, the bug remains in our mantis database, and we will look at it again after the next release goes out.
It's important that you understand that this is not the only bug that we have to resolve. Yes, it was a very important one for us (personally), mainly because it's causing people problems; but just because it's important to us does not make it fixable if we cannot reproduce it.
The straight truth is that if we can't reproduce a bug, we can't fix it. That's just how the software business works. At this point we cannot reproduce it, and will move on to fixing other things that we can.
If this bug is so rampant that it's causing many people headaches, there must be something common between what you all are doing, that is causing it to occur.
If you all can get together and figure out what it is, or a good way to make it happen, we will most certainly get it fixed.
Cheers,
-Justin
09/21/2007 (8:39 am)
Cary,I'm sorry to hear you're so disheartened by the news that we're moving on to fix other bugs. Believe me, we're much more disheartened that we're unable to fix it.
That said, I wanted to clarify my post a bit more, as you seem to be under the impression that we're throwing this bug out, or something similar. That is not true at all, the bug remains in our mantis database, and we will look at it again after the next release goes out.
It's important that you understand that this is not the only bug that we have to resolve. Yes, it was a very important one for us (personally), mainly because it's causing people problems; but just because it's important to us does not make it fixable if we cannot reproduce it.
The straight truth is that if we can't reproduce a bug, we can't fix it. That's just how the software business works. At this point we cannot reproduce it, and will move on to fixing other things that we can.
If this bug is so rampant that it's causing many people headaches, there must be something common between what you all are doing, that is causing it to occur.
If you all can get together and figure out what it is, or a good way to make it happen, we will most certainly get it fixed.
Cheers,
-Justin
#28
To clarify, it's ONLY the emitters getting corrupted here, nothing else. I haven't found any way to reliably reproduce this but it does happen, seemingly at random, once in a while. I'm leaving for the weekend in just a bit but I'll try to get a couple of moments to look at it again Monday.
09/21/2007 (8:53 am)
Sounds to me that Carys problems are slightly more severe, and probably something completely unrelated to this little particle emitter bug.To clarify, it's ONLY the emitters getting corrupted here, nothing else. I haven't found any way to reliably reproduce this but it does happen, seemingly at random, once in a while. I'm leaving for the weekend in just a bit but I'll try to get a couple of moments to look at it again Monday.
#29
1.) Open TGB with the intention of creating a scene for a video game that has a number of emitters in it.
2.) Start building the scene like you would if you were actually making it for a game. Add particle emitters, make new ones, etc. Save frequently. Very frequently.
3.) Pretend you don't like what you are seeing in the emitters. Start changing them. Keep saving.
4.) Eventually, an emitter in the world, usually after a save, will just... stop working! Now try and load that emitter file in for edit. You can't. Try to modify that emitter. You can't. Congratulations - you've got a corrupted emitter file!
09/21/2007 (9:09 am)
This is an incredibly tricky bug to reproduce, however every time I use TGB and work with particles, it happens. I would suggest doing the following to reproduce it, as it is what I have always done to make it happen... but before any of it, I'd suggest adding a lot of debug output to the code for where you are saving and loading the emitter files. 1.) Open TGB with the intention of creating a scene for a video game that has a number of emitters in it.
2.) Start building the scene like you would if you were actually making it for a game. Add particle emitters, make new ones, etc. Save frequently. Very frequently.
3.) Pretend you don't like what you are seeing in the emitters. Start changing them. Keep saving.
4.) Eventually, an emitter in the world, usually after a save, will just... stop working! Now try and load that emitter file in for edit. You can't. Try to modify that emitter. You can't. Congratulations - you've got a corrupted emitter file!
#30
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=57750
09/21/2007 (9:14 am)
Let me also point out this thread I posted in the TGB Bug Reporting forums where I list this bug and show the console output that occurs when trying to load a corrupted emitter file:www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=57750
#31
If you could save the console output between a corrupted save, and a corrupted load. That would be helpful too. That is, save the emitter, then close TGB, backup the console.log, then try and load the emitter.
If TGB has a hard time saving the emitter it should print something like this to the console:
The 'Could' is a typo and should read Couldn't.
09/21/2007 (10:12 am)
Dave, or anyone else really.If you could save the console output between a corrupted save, and a corrupted load. That would be helpful too. That is, save the emitter, then close TGB, backup the console.log, then try and load the emitter.
If TGB has a hard time saving the emitter it should print something like this to the console:
::saveStream() - Could Save Stream Header/Version!");
The 'Could' is a typo and should read Couldn't.
#32
04/10/2009 (9:47 am)
did anyone ever find a repro case for this? Our effects artist has lost days of work due to this bug (and hasn't been able to find a repro case for it either)
#33
04/10/2009 (10:07 am)
This is one of several reasons I dropped the games we were doing on Torque and switched to a different engine. The last I heard they claimed they couldn't reproduce the problem so they weren't pursuing it further. Not real helpful to all of us loosing days of work to an obvious bug. The only workaround is to back up each particle effect outside the project file and reload them each time they corrupt. A real pain. I was having a similar problem with CS files corrupting and the workaround for that one was copying the file then renaming it. The problem was anything referencing the file had to be changed which made an ocean of work every time the game got corrupted which at times was daily. I finally threw in the towel. TGB is a nice idea but it's far too unstable for my tastes. I wish they'd stop adding features and fix the code but features sell upgrades not bug fixes.
#34
TGB1.7.4 is a bit of an ole' wild boar still IMO. Great for certain things..but not so good for alot of other things.
**Feature request for TGB, allow emitters to be duplicated within the same eff. The amount of time I have lost duplicating settings or fixing them is a bit whoa. I love TGB but some-days I would like to send it to the corner with a dunce hat on it...
04/10/2009 (10:42 pm)
I have had emitters change settings on their own, turn themselves invisible, change locations from editor to game play even when I have both open running the project .mis and the same .mis in game, they can show differently. - I have had so many odd things happen with my use of TGB that somedays, when I ask my counterpart-dev why he changed my files and he replies that he never touched them...I start to feel a bit insane...as if I keep sabotaging my own progress.TGB1.7.4 is a bit of an ole' wild boar still IMO. Great for certain things..but not so good for alot of other things.
**Feature request for TGB, allow emitters to be duplicated within the same eff. The amount of time I have lost duplicating settings or fixing them is a bit whoa. I love TGB but some-days I would like to send it to the corner with a dunce hat on it...
#35
To this day I have no idea why you get source for the engine but, not for the editor that the whole thing relies on.
04/11/2009 (5:32 am)
This sounded like it was caused by bugs in the builder editor. The problem is that the editor source was never made available so there could be any number of file crushing bugs lurking in there.To this day I have no idea why you get source for the engine but, not for the editor that the whole thing relies on.
#36
anyway, as a workaround, I think we are going to implement save functionality similar to 3ds max where it will back up the old version before saving the new version.
04/13/2009 (6:21 am)
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the editor written entirely in torquescript, which you do get the source to?anyway, as a workaround, I think we are going to implement save functionality similar to 3ds max where it will back up the old version before saving the new version.
Torque 3D Owner Robert Blanchet Jr.
Thank you.