Originality DOES matter.
by AzraelK · in General Discussion · 05/28/2002 (9:45 am) · 17 replies
A few days ago, Matt Webster and I started a thread (or more likely a ligh hearted combat zone) about originality being important or not. I stated that originality was not as important as gameplay and fun, while Matt stated Originality was VERY important in independent gaming. I continued with my position until I noticed this site :
[url] www.demonews.com [/url]
Now imagine that site is garagegames in a few years, demos of games to download by the dozens. Each game has a tiny description with a tiny screenshot. (one of those games is yours)
Now conduct this experiment, imagine you dont know any of this games (you probably dont anyway) browse through and chose one, just one of them to download.
Here are some conclussions I made in this process and you will probably reach the same:
*you will immediately discharge those with ugly graphics or no screenshots. (bonne voyage!)
*you wont consider blatant CLONES either(play pacman again? no thanks)
*For some reason you will be unisterested to common and too recurrent themes (swat combat, fantasy rpgs, deathmatching? racing theres a ton! I cant decide they all look the same!)
*You will check the screenshots and stop at those with nice graphics but you wont download one just for that. (most probably you wont even be interested enough to clik on them)
*You will look twice at ORIGINAL but uninteristing or bizarre themes. (cricket simulator? what they were thinking?!)
*You will look at the comments for help, but you probably wont base your decission on them. ("best plane simulation ever", I dont know, have played too many of those, doesnt sound fun.)
*You will probably click at those with GOOD GRAPHICS and a theme that is NOT COMMON and APPEALING to you (a superhero rpg? a werewolf simulator? cool!)
*When clicking you MAY check the webpage of the game (only if it was interesting enough to be cliked)
*You will then check the requirements and the size of the file. if you dont meet the requirements or the file is too big (like more than 150mb) no questions asked, you will go and look for another demo.
(you will of course take into account the complexity of the game if its an mmorpg you may consider downloading 150 mgs, but if its an arcade game you WONT)
*If all meets your criteria you will put the game in a list of POSSIBLE DOWNLOADS.
*After getting tired of browsing, you will choose the most appealing of the games in your list.
*You will download (guilt free) only one game out of a hundred in the site.
(After that you will play it for a while if the game is fun the gameplay is solid, there is some replayability the graphics are jaw dropping, is not very bugged, and there is something extra cool if you buy it. you will consider the purchase. but thats outside the scope of the experiment)
Now heres the deal, in our discussion we concluded that making a game truly original was not important and a clone would be considered for publishing, this is NOT the case in Garagegames, because you already have a publisher (duh!)
So the real problem comes from BEING DOWNLOADED or not. And if we review our possible decisions, you will realize CLONES and COMMON recurrent themes get almost immediately ditched!
We also can conclude that:
Good graphics wont make it alone (although will drive interest. )
Clones and too recurrent themes most probably wont get Downloaded !(unless graphics are exceptional)
An ORIGINAL but unappealing idea will GET attention, but most probably wont be downloaded.
USERS wont care too much about good reviews or comments (unless they come from sources they trust)
USERS wont even notice your publicity, if the game subject is unappealing or just too common.
AN ORIGINAL AND APPEALING idea will be clicked on.
If the size and the requirements are right, the demo will get downloaded.
Game play and fun are very IMPORTANT at the end, but NOT during the downloading choice!
Publicity will only be noticed afterwards or while the download is made. BUT ONLY if the game is interesting!
A combined effort of all parts of the process succeding will probably lead to the purchase of the game.
SO in conclussion in GarageGames ORIGINALITY and APPEAL is important, (just as much as gameplay and fun) since it will have a lot of weight in the downloading decission.
Other elements to take care are GOOD GRAPHICS and DOWNLOAD SIZE, getting good reviews can also help in the process (although not much)
But heres something very important CLONES or COMMON THEMES will often go UNNOTICED over UNCOMMON and/or ORIGINAL themes with an appeal!
So ... I think if your game fells in those categories, and you are attempting a sale here.. well it may be a good idea to hit the drawing board again
(or find a very good twist for your game or near excelent execution)
Btw. sorry Matt I guess you were more right than I thought. =)
Here are some areas that are AWFUL common in game making today (and if you are in designing phase, you should try avoiding)
*Fantasy RPG
*Deathmatch
*space combat/strategy games.
*Team deathmatch
*Dark sci fi shooters/rts/rpg
*sci-fi rpgs
*Realistic Swat simulation
*Army Simulation.
*Historic Simulation (age of empires, civilization, empire earth)
*Racing simulators (of all kinds)
*Sport Games (specially extreme sports)
*WW2 war games.
Etc. (go to the site to see more)
Here are some areas that are _not so common_ in game making today:
*Jobs Simulation (company owner, conductor, etc)
*Animals simulation
*Other eras gameplay besides dark ages and space.
like: westerns, vikings, prehispanic, colony, arabian
prehistoric, etc.
*Horror games (not in the survival or shooter areas.)
*God games (a la black & white, populous)
*Super hero games. (they arent that many)
*creative games. (where you build something like in the Incredible machine)
ETC.
May the torque be with you...
[url] www.demonews.com [/url]
Now imagine that site is garagegames in a few years, demos of games to download by the dozens. Each game has a tiny description with a tiny screenshot. (one of those games is yours)
Now conduct this experiment, imagine you dont know any of this games (you probably dont anyway) browse through and chose one, just one of them to download.
Here are some conclussions I made in this process and you will probably reach the same:
*you will immediately discharge those with ugly graphics or no screenshots. (bonne voyage!)
*you wont consider blatant CLONES either(play pacman again? no thanks)
*For some reason you will be unisterested to common and too recurrent themes (swat combat, fantasy rpgs, deathmatching? racing theres a ton! I cant decide they all look the same!)
*You will check the screenshots and stop at those with nice graphics but you wont download one just for that. (most probably you wont even be interested enough to clik on them)
*You will look twice at ORIGINAL but uninteristing or bizarre themes. (cricket simulator? what they were thinking?!)
*You will look at the comments for help, but you probably wont base your decission on them. ("best plane simulation ever", I dont know, have played too many of those, doesnt sound fun.)
*You will probably click at those with GOOD GRAPHICS and a theme that is NOT COMMON and APPEALING to you (a superhero rpg? a werewolf simulator? cool!)
*When clicking you MAY check the webpage of the game (only if it was interesting enough to be cliked)
*You will then check the requirements and the size of the file. if you dont meet the requirements or the file is too big (like more than 150mb) no questions asked, you will go and look for another demo.
(you will of course take into account the complexity of the game if its an mmorpg you may consider downloading 150 mgs, but if its an arcade game you WONT)
*If all meets your criteria you will put the game in a list of POSSIBLE DOWNLOADS.
*After getting tired of browsing, you will choose the most appealing of the games in your list.
*You will download (guilt free) only one game out of a hundred in the site.
(After that you will play it for a while if the game is fun the gameplay is solid, there is some replayability the graphics are jaw dropping, is not very bugged, and there is something extra cool if you buy it. you will consider the purchase. but thats outside the scope of the experiment)
Now heres the deal, in our discussion we concluded that making a game truly original was not important and a clone would be considered for publishing, this is NOT the case in Garagegames, because you already have a publisher (duh!)
So the real problem comes from BEING DOWNLOADED or not. And if we review our possible decisions, you will realize CLONES and COMMON recurrent themes get almost immediately ditched!
We also can conclude that:
Good graphics wont make it alone (although will drive interest. )
Clones and too recurrent themes most probably wont get Downloaded !(unless graphics are exceptional)
An ORIGINAL but unappealing idea will GET attention, but most probably wont be downloaded.
USERS wont care too much about good reviews or comments (unless they come from sources they trust)
USERS wont even notice your publicity, if the game subject is unappealing or just too common.
AN ORIGINAL AND APPEALING idea will be clicked on.
If the size and the requirements are right, the demo will get downloaded.
Game play and fun are very IMPORTANT at the end, but NOT during the downloading choice!
Publicity will only be noticed afterwards or while the download is made. BUT ONLY if the game is interesting!
A combined effort of all parts of the process succeding will probably lead to the purchase of the game.
SO in conclussion in GarageGames ORIGINALITY and APPEAL is important, (just as much as gameplay and fun) since it will have a lot of weight in the downloading decission.
Other elements to take care are GOOD GRAPHICS and DOWNLOAD SIZE, getting good reviews can also help in the process (although not much)
But heres something very important CLONES or COMMON THEMES will often go UNNOTICED over UNCOMMON and/or ORIGINAL themes with an appeal!
So ... I think if your game fells in those categories, and you are attempting a sale here.. well it may be a good idea to hit the drawing board again
(or find a very good twist for your game or near excelent execution)
Btw. sorry Matt I guess you were more right than I thought. =)
Here are some areas that are AWFUL common in game making today (and if you are in designing phase, you should try avoiding)
*Fantasy RPG
*Deathmatch
*space combat/strategy games.
*Team deathmatch
*Dark sci fi shooters/rts/rpg
*sci-fi rpgs
*Realistic Swat simulation
*Army Simulation.
*Historic Simulation (age of empires, civilization, empire earth)
*Racing simulators (of all kinds)
*Sport Games (specially extreme sports)
*WW2 war games.
Etc. (go to the site to see more)
Here are some areas that are _not so common_ in game making today:
*Jobs Simulation (company owner, conductor, etc)
*Animals simulation
*Other eras gameplay besides dark ages and space.
like: westerns, vikings, prehispanic, colony, arabian
prehistoric, etc.
*Horror games (not in the survival or shooter areas.)
*God games (a la black & white, populous)
*Super hero games. (they arent that many)
*creative games. (where you build something like in the Incredible machine)
ETC.
May the torque be with you...
#2
I will pick what interests ME.
Probably, but if the genre is interesting graphics are less important than gameplay. JA2 for example.
I loved JA2, I would probably download any game that claimed to have similar game play just to try it out.
see above, if I like a genre / theme / game type, I am actually MORE inclined to play one similar than one different. I like LOTS of genres / themes / game types.
I hate lots to, like all resource intensive RTS games, and DEATHMATCH type game play.
depends on the genre, a Majhonng game is nothing but about graphics :) And I love my puzzle games like that!
not really, that old adventure game where you play as a cockroach got old after about 10 minutes. It like most "original" games are all about the "hook" or the "gimick" that makes them original and rarely about gameplay or quality of execution
depends on the "quality" of the comment, if it is well thought out and reasonable and has some basis in fact it will weight on my discision makeing. If it says nothing more than "this sux0rs" or "r0x0rs" I will probably ignore that idiots opinion.
not unless I have lots of time to waste and I am bored. That has not happend since I was in high school or college. I am going to dowload something that I don't think I will be wasting my time with. Something that will enterain ME.
I would probably visit all the websites if the game intrigqed me, since it takes less time to browse a site and you can get a feel for the EXECUTION and QUALIY of the game from the web site a lot of the times.
You forgot that if you have a SUPER FAST connection and a LARGE HARD DRIVE and TIME TO WASTE you would be more likely to download things on a whim.
[quote.*If all meets your criteria you will put the game in a list of POSSIBLE DOWNLOADS.[/quote]
See last response . . .
Only people with real lives and responsibilties could possibly feel "guilt" from downloading demos or games, the target audience is NOT these guilt ridden adults.
don't go to Japan, this is the LARGEST genre over there and is EXTREMELY popular. They even have a commuter train sim ulation that looks boring as hell and it was a number 1 seller for most of a YEAR!
Also have you been in a closet for the past year. There is a Tycoon this and Tycoon that for almost every industry outside of garabage collection and prostituion.
They all play almost EXACTLY the same with different graphics.
Now American Pimp Tycoon where you get to go to Detroit to be Pimp of the Year American Pimp of course the second one would be in Europe or a differnt time period, like Colonial Days, or how about Blow Tycoon based on George Jung introducing Cocaine to the US! might be "original" but more likely they would be considered "derivative" or "clever" twists on un-original gameplay.
Ants, Sheep, Cows, Creatures, Pigs, all played the same and died out when the fad died in Japan ( Tamagonichi something other ).
Also Westerns are "not politically correct"!
All the rest of the genres are not violent enough or would only include gameplay mechanics the same as the sims or simcity with differnt graphics. More appropriate for mods than full games. A different time period != originalty in my opinion, it == gimick || twist
05/28/2002 (10:49 am)
actually I believe some of your conclusions/assumptions are flawed, not wrong but flawed.I will pick what interests ME.
Quote:Here are some conclussions I made in this process and you will probably reach the same:
*you will immediately discharge those with ugly graphics or no screenshots. (bonne voyage!)
Probably, but if the genre is interesting graphics are less important than gameplay. JA2 for example.
Quote:*you wont consider blatant CLONES either(play pacman again? no thanks)
I loved JA2, I would probably download any game that claimed to have similar game play just to try it out.
Quote:*For some reason you will be unisterested to common and too recurrent themes (swat combat, fantasy rpgs, deathmatching? racing theres a ton! I cant decide they all look the same!)
see above, if I like a genre / theme / game type, I am actually MORE inclined to play one similar than one different. I like LOTS of genres / themes / game types.
I hate lots to, like all resource intensive RTS games, and DEATHMATCH type game play.
Quote:*You will check the screenshots and stop at those with nice graphics but you wont download one just for that. (most probably you wont even be interested enough to clik on them)
depends on the genre, a Majhonng game is nothing but about graphics :) And I love my puzzle games like that!
Quote:*You will look twice at ORIGINAL but uninteristing or bizarre themes. (cricket simulator? what they were thinking?!)
not really, that old adventure game where you play as a cockroach got old after about 10 minutes. It like most "original" games are all about the "hook" or the "gimick" that makes them original and rarely about gameplay or quality of execution
Quote:*You will look at the comments for help, but you probably wont base your decission on them. ("best plane simulation ever", I dont know, have played too many of those, doesnt sound fun.)
depends on the "quality" of the comment, if it is well thought out and reasonable and has some basis in fact it will weight on my discision makeing. If it says nothing more than "this sux0rs" or "r0x0rs" I will probably ignore that idiots opinion.
Quote:*You will probably click at those with GOOD GRAPHICS and a theme that is NOT COMMON and APPEALING to you (a superhero rpg? a werewolf simulator? cool!)
not unless I have lots of time to waste and I am bored. That has not happend since I was in high school or college. I am going to dowload something that I don't think I will be wasting my time with. Something that will enterain ME.
Quote:*When clicking you MAY check the webpage of the game (only if it was interesting enough to be cliked)
I would probably visit all the websites if the game intrigqed me, since it takes less time to browse a site and you can get a feel for the EXECUTION and QUALIY of the game from the web site a lot of the times.
Quote:*You will then check the requirements and the size of the file. if you dont meet the requirements or the file is too big (like more than 150mb) no questions asked, you will go and look for another demo.
(you will of course take into account the complexity of the game if its an mmorpg you may consider downloading 150 mgs, but if its an arcade game you WONT)
You forgot that if you have a SUPER FAST connection and a LARGE HARD DRIVE and TIME TO WASTE you would be more likely to download things on a whim.
[quote.*If all meets your criteria you will put the game in a list of POSSIBLE DOWNLOADS.[/quote]
See last response . . .
Quote:*After getting tired of browsing, you will choose the most appealing of the games in your list.As a general rule Women "browse / shop" men are looking for something specific and don't tend to "browse" or "shop" for games or demos, they know what they are looking for and ignore just about everything else. I know I don't and none of my male friends do, but my wife browses shareware game sites all the time.
Quote:*You will download (guilt free) only one game out of a hundred in the site.
Only people with real lives and responsibilties could possibly feel "guilt" from downloading demos or games, the target audience is NOT these guilt ridden adults.
Quote:Here are some areas that are _not so common_ in game making today:
*Jobs Simulation (company owner, conductor, etc)
don't go to Japan, this is the LARGEST genre over there and is EXTREMELY popular. They even have a commuter train sim ulation that looks boring as hell and it was a number 1 seller for most of a YEAR!
Also have you been in a closet for the past year. There is a Tycoon this and Tycoon that for almost every industry outside of garabage collection and prostituion.
They all play almost EXACTLY the same with different graphics.
Now American Pimp Tycoon where you get to go to Detroit to be Pimp of the Year American Pimp of course the second one would be in Europe or a differnt time period, like Colonial Days, or how about Blow Tycoon based on George Jung introducing Cocaine to the US! might be "original" but more likely they would be considered "derivative" or "clever" twists on un-original gameplay.
Quote:*Animals simulationAll these have been done and were niche markets at best.
Ants, Sheep, Cows, Creatures, Pigs, all played the same and died out when the fad died in Japan ( Tamagonichi something other ).
Quote:*Other eras gameplay besides dark ages and space.There is an AWESOME western mod for Quake III, no one plays it and it is FREE. There is an AWESOME western mod remake of Outlaws from Lucas Arts for HL, no-one plays it either????
like: westerns, vikings, prehispanic, colony, arabian
prehistoric, etc.
Also Westerns are "not politically correct"!
All the rest of the genres are not violent enough or would only include gameplay mechanics the same as the sims or simcity with differnt graphics. More appropriate for mods than full games. A different time period != originalty in my opinion, it == gimick || twist
Quote:*Horror games (not in the survival or shooter areas.)People read horror, all the horror / non survial third person shooters have failed to gain acceptatnce and some were executed very well and good games, the public is just not buying them.
Quote:*God games (a la black & white, populous)there were dozens of these games at the last 2-3 E3 shows. Most never made it to market because of market forces ( read the first runners ate up the market share and it would cost more to market and sell the game than to just shelve it and eat the dev costs )
Quote:*Super hero games. (they arent that many)There are plenty of games out right now that have SuperHeros, Spiderman for one, and all the Capcom fighters with the X-Men and what not. They just can't translate comic book feel to interactive games without them feeling contrived"
Quote:*creative games. (where you build something like in the Incredible machine)that is because they would all be compared to Incredible machine and panned for being clones, as their is not alot of room for alternative game play in this genre.
#3
Sorry, you are wrong here. Case in point is Combat Mission. An ugly game in comparison to most others, but THE best wargame you can possibly buy for the PC.
05/28/2002 (12:24 pm)
Quote:*you will immediately discharge those with ugly graphics or no screenshots. (bonne voyage!)
Sorry, you are wrong here. Case in point is Combat Mission. An ugly game in comparison to most others, but THE best wargame you can possibly buy for the PC.
#4
It is a PREMIERE example of of how excellent EXECUTION by an indepenant developer ( 4 guys ) can bring success where originality and lots of eye candy fail with poor execution will fail.
05/28/2002 (12:30 pm)
I agree with Mike "Combat Mission" is an awesome game, great EXECUTION even though the graphics were sub-par and dated by about 8 years. It is a PREMIERE example of of how excellent EXECUTION by an indepenant developer ( 4 guys ) can bring success where originality and lots of eye candy fail with poor execution will fail.
#5
CM was an incredible game, but how many games magazines wrote review? on how many non-wargamer sites have you seen it even mentioned? I learned about it when gamespy wrote an article about great games that just didn't sell or see publicity.
I can imagine that from a publisher's POV, CM didn't do too well.
05/28/2002 (12:57 pm)
uh, well I absolutely *loved* Combat Mission (was the sole reason I kept a windos partition for almost a year) but I don't think it invalidates the point.CM was an incredible game, but how many games magazines wrote review? on how many non-wargamer sites have you seen it even mentioned? I learned about it when gamespy wrote an article about great games that just didn't sell or see publicity.
I can imagine that from a publisher's POV, CM didn't do too well.
#6
Also I friend has three issues of mainstream gaming magazines that all wrote it up last year. Of course it had been out for a year when they wrote it up, but still it did get lots of recognition and won lots of awards.
05/28/2002 (1:00 pm)
they sold over 100k copies last I heard, how is not NOT successful from a publishers stand point, oh, wait, the developers WERE the publishers, so I guess for the LEECH publishers that is BAD they did not make any money off the game.Also I friend has three issues of mainstream gaming magazines that all wrote it up last year. Of course it had been out for a year when they wrote it up, but still it did get lots of recognition and won lots of awards.
#7
You also stretched another fact that is likely open to discussion, "originality" comes with a price, developers use tried and true formulas because they know they have a greater chance of success with originality theres a 50/50 chance you will either succeed or bomb completely.
Even independent game legend Seumas Mcnelly choose tank racing/combat for his game "treadmarks", a subject you may hardly call original although a bit innovative.
I think Innovation can be better than complete originality per example an FPS with a viking theme could be considered original or innovative and with great execution it could go far. It provides a genere and interface we feel comfortable with and a whole new subject to explore. (the game in question could be called "valhala" hehe =) )
=) of course this are just my 0.02 units.
p.s.
Harvest moon (a farm simulator believe it or not) wasnt the psx best buy but it did had a good level of success to make it all the way to the ps2 =) something to think about.
By the way we must agree that just because you or I particularly hate /like a game doesnt mean everyone else does so lets try to keep an open mind.
hey this subject is cool =)
May the torque be with you
05/28/2002 (1:13 pm)
Well I did said "probablly" =) of course my conclussions wont be the same of everyone else. However I do believe MOST people will go for good graphics. (I have no idea what JA2 is)You also stretched another fact that is likely open to discussion, "originality" comes with a price, developers use tried and true formulas because they know they have a greater chance of success with originality theres a 50/50 chance you will either succeed or bomb completely.
Even independent game legend Seumas Mcnelly choose tank racing/combat for his game "treadmarks", a subject you may hardly call original although a bit innovative.
I think Innovation can be better than complete originality per example an FPS with a viking theme could be considered original or innovative and with great execution it could go far. It provides a genere and interface we feel comfortable with and a whole new subject to explore. (the game in question could be called "valhala" hehe =) )
=) of course this are just my 0.02 units.
p.s.
Harvest moon (a farm simulator believe it or not) wasnt the psx best buy but it did had a good level of success to make it all the way to the ps2 =) something to think about.
By the way we must agree that just because you or I particularly hate /like a game doesnt mean everyone else does so lets try to keep an open mind.
hey this subject is cool =)
May the torque be with you
#8
(and it was actually cheaper than buying it online, with the exchange figured in : too bad I was broke that day !)
But as others said, CM is clearly an example of gameplay over graphics/eye candy : I spend countless hours playing with the various demo versions that came out during its development cycle, and after its release.
Go make that understand to the average producer or investor, 'though... 8p
Pax,
N.
05/28/2002 (3:03 pm)
Just a note : looks like Battlefront picked up some distribution deal for Combat Mission, since I saw it boxed in a retail store, here in Montreal...(and it was actually cheaper than buying it online, with the exchange figured in : too bad I was broke that day !)
But as others said, CM is clearly an example of gameplay over graphics/eye candy : I spend countless hours playing with the various demo versions that came out during its development cycle, and after its release.
Go make that understand to the average producer or investor, 'though... 8p
Pax,
N.
#9
Woops here it iswww.battlefront.com, the http was misspelled.
05/28/2002 (3:19 pm)
The link for Combat Mission is bad, does anyone else have a pointer to a demo for it ?Woops here it iswww.battlefront.com, the http was misspelled.
#10
You have drawn some interesting conclusions but they are based on assumptions only. For example, if I were to take your test, my methodolgy would be significantly different than yours.
First, I would look for at all the Adventure (read Myst/Riven) and MMORPG games and add them to my list.
Why? Because those are the games I like playing right now.
Next, I would look at each one individually and see if any of them were fantasy based. I prefer solid fantasy to attempts to recreate real-world violence. I've seen real dead bodies - they hold no appeal so I'll go for hacked up demons, trolls and dragons (none of which I have ever seen.) All sci-fi, horror, military get cut.
Assuming any are left (I will assume that there are for purposes of the discussion) I would look to see what the setting is. Lately, I have been listening to Arabic style movie scores (i.e. Stargate, The Mummy, etc.) so I would probably look for a desert setting.
Finally, I would try for story lines I find appealing. Rescue the maiden, find the lost sword, genie grants you three wishes.... I would probably be looking at the graphics all the while. Really bad graphics would probably stop me from picking a title - even if it fit the criteria. (As an aside... I usually rule out games where I play the opposite gender when the game is created by a male. I don't want to try to think like a guy who thinks he's thinking like a girl!)
Now that I'm down to a few, I would look carefully at the storyline, the artwork, and maybe the website to see what is being said about it. If I found an original storyline I would consider it icing on the cake.
At no time did I look for anything original in a game. And I suspect that my method is at least as common as yours. In fact, I believe that my method is more common given the way people follow gaming genre's. If you like MMORPG's you know what's out there and what's coming up - not as a developer - but as a gamer.
If you listen to acid rock you know when your favorite band's next album is coming. You probably don't know squat about what the current top Cajun Zydeco album is, or when an album by the Black Watch is coming out. (a Scottish bagpipe band from many years ago for those of you who think it's an occult group.)
I'm not invalidating your result. You could be right overall and you are certainly right in some cases. I'm pointing out that the sample size is too small to draw meaningful conclusions.
Time and market sampling will give us better information on how the majority of people choose games. Those results will probably differ signifanctly from the methods employed by hard core gamers and groups who follow other trends into games. (i.e. "I'm buying everything that is Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Zena the Warrior Princess, etc. -- you made a game with it - I'll buy it. I might even leave it in the original packing so it will appreciate in value!")
Love this discussion, but it's all hypothesis. No testable theory here yet.
05/28/2002 (3:21 pm)
Ahhh the joys of a sample size of one...You have drawn some interesting conclusions but they are based on assumptions only. For example, if I were to take your test, my methodolgy would be significantly different than yours.
First, I would look for at all the Adventure (read Myst/Riven) and MMORPG games and add them to my list.
Why? Because those are the games I like playing right now.
Next, I would look at each one individually and see if any of them were fantasy based. I prefer solid fantasy to attempts to recreate real-world violence. I've seen real dead bodies - they hold no appeal so I'll go for hacked up demons, trolls and dragons (none of which I have ever seen.) All sci-fi, horror, military get cut.
Assuming any are left (I will assume that there are for purposes of the discussion) I would look to see what the setting is. Lately, I have been listening to Arabic style movie scores (i.e. Stargate, The Mummy, etc.) so I would probably look for a desert setting.
Finally, I would try for story lines I find appealing. Rescue the maiden, find the lost sword, genie grants you three wishes.... I would probably be looking at the graphics all the while. Really bad graphics would probably stop me from picking a title - even if it fit the criteria. (As an aside... I usually rule out games where I play the opposite gender when the game is created by a male. I don't want to try to think like a guy who thinks he's thinking like a girl!)
Now that I'm down to a few, I would look carefully at the storyline, the artwork, and maybe the website to see what is being said about it. If I found an original storyline I would consider it icing on the cake.
At no time did I look for anything original in a game. And I suspect that my method is at least as common as yours. In fact, I believe that my method is more common given the way people follow gaming genre's. If you like MMORPG's you know what's out there and what's coming up - not as a developer - but as a gamer.
If you listen to acid rock you know when your favorite band's next album is coming. You probably don't know squat about what the current top Cajun Zydeco album is, or when an album by the Black Watch is coming out. (a Scottish bagpipe band from many years ago for those of you who think it's an occult group.)
I'm not invalidating your result. You could be right overall and you are certainly right in some cases. I'm pointing out that the sample size is too small to draw meaningful conclusions.
Time and market sampling will give us better information on how the majority of people choose games. Those results will probably differ signifanctly from the methods employed by hard core gamers and groups who follow other trends into games. (i.e. "I'm buying everything that is Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Zena the Warrior Princess, etc. -- you made a game with it - I'll buy it. I might even leave it in the original packing so it will appreciate in value!")
Love this discussion, but it's all hypothesis. No testable theory here yet.
#11
It's funny to see me playing a rather old game that is low on the graphics spectrum, but it's just too fun. No game out there offers what it does, and it's fun makes me want to keep playing it despite pretty much every other game out now beats it in the graphics department.
If you can make something unique, then graphics can be secondary.
If anyone attempted a Jagged Alliance-like game in 3D, chances are it'd do pretty well if you stuck close to their formula.
05/28/2002 (3:28 pm)
Yep, after installing Deus Ex on my brand new PC I installed Jagged Alliance 2 (JA2).It's funny to see me playing a rather old game that is low on the graphics spectrum, but it's just too fun. No game out there offers what it does, and it's fun makes me want to keep playing it despite pretty much every other game out now beats it in the graphics department.
If you can make something unique, then graphics can be secondary.
If anyone attempted a Jagged Alliance-like game in 3D, chances are it'd do pretty well if you stuck close to their formula.
#12
JA2 ( Jagged Alliance 2 ) had mediocore graphics at best for the time it was released, but awesome game play ( except for the lame sniper rifles )!
05/28/2002 (5:28 pm)
Yep, TreadMarks ruled, to bad the only people that play it are in EUROPE, and get my butt kicked because of the lag over the "Pond".JA2 ( Jagged Alliance 2 ) had mediocore graphics at best for the time it was released, but awesome game play ( except for the lame sniper rifles )!
#13
You'll make millions
05/28/2002 (7:08 pm)
Hey if you go with market trends you should make a game that's a cross between Myst and The Sims....You'll make millions
#14
You could call it Fashion Island Mall Hunter. You're located on a small island (like Myst), with a very large mall. Inside the mall are many Simulated people. You can control these people, selecting what they buy, who they talk to etc. And once in a while a hunter will come shopping in the mall and buy guns at the sporting goods store. When you see him, you can take control of him and go around killing the simulated people from a first person POV. Preferably with ultra-violent graphics because people who play violent games are violent, like me.
05/29/2002 (2:34 pm)
Don't forget Deer Hunter.You could call it Fashion Island Mall Hunter. You're located on a small island (like Myst), with a very large mall. Inside the mall are many Simulated people. You can control these people, selecting what they buy, who they talk to etc. And once in a while a hunter will come shopping in the mall and buy guns at the sporting goods store. When you see him, you can take control of him and go around killing the simulated people from a first person POV. Preferably with ultra-violent graphics because people who play violent games are violent, like me.
#15
If such a game existed I would download the demo even if it were 300 mb.
May the torque be with you...
p.s. I mentioned this in another thread but a point here is mistaken, word of wouth and reviews are very important for game selection. Gamers (specially male) usually "hunt" their games after reading or hearing about them from a trusted source. They dont go "browsing" for them.
05/29/2002 (3:14 pm)
Actually (and Im not kidding) a (real) 3d version of the sims (per example torque based) with the posibility to actually drive your sim to work, meet friends etc will probably drive some people crazy in joy (including me) if you add a net connection to it, the Medical US department may as well try to prohibit is sale without a prescription.If such a game existed I would download the demo even if it were 300 mb.
May the torque be with you...
p.s. I mentioned this in another thread but a point here is mistaken, word of wouth and reviews are very important for game selection. Gamers (specially male) usually "hunt" their games after reading or hearing about them from a trusted source. They dont go "browsing" for them.
#16
05/29/2002 (4:29 pm)
Sounds like The Sims Online :) 
Torque Owner George McBay
This is a great point. Far too many games fall back on medeval times or space or 'typical cartoon world' as seen in most platformers... Some new locations would be nice.
I'd love to see some well done horror (not RE-type survival) adventure games.
There was a time a few years back when there were way too many of these types of games...Guess it goes in cycles...
Considering the success of Freedom Force, you can bet there's going to be 500 clones coming down the pike, so indies might want to avoid this space for now.