Death of the console?
by Dark Tengu · in General Discussion · 11/21/2006 (2:25 pm) · 17 replies
With all the recent console launches I have been fascinated recently. I must admit that I used to be a HUGE console gamer. Gradually as I have used the computer as a tool, I have also begun using it for gaming. For some reason I think in the long run PC games will dominate. Here are my reasons why: (**just an opinion**)
1) Console prices are more or less doubling every generation. That would put PS4 at $1200! This is also assuming console makers can afford to lose hundreds of dollars on hardware from the get go.
2) With each generation, consoles become more like a computer. I think that the XBOX will just disappear into some Microsoft hardware used to manage your DVD (HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) collection, music collection, TV programming, word processing, email, Internet Explorer, and gaming. In short, consoles will become a PC. Sony will find themselves in a deep water though, the cost of developing a high level OS isn't cheap, unless you use Linux (which I like more). People for whatever reason are scared to learn anything that isn't windows.
3) DirectX10 looks amazing. It looks to be very promising. With the next-gen consoles not coming out for another 7-10 years, computers are going to be WAY ahead of console's power (already are in a lot of cases).
4) With kids learning computers in school they are becoming more tech saavy and have higher expectations for new tech. The younger generation is not afraid of computers and have a decent understanding of them.
Some of the major disadvantages of PC games are:
1) Wide range of hardware. Harder to develope for. You can't assume anything about what the player has. A wide variety of systems make it more difficult to provide customer care for.
2) Some of the console franchises aren't coming to the PC any time soon.
3) Consoles are just easier to use for the general public.
I don't know what will happen but I think it makes for an interesting conversation.
1) Console prices are more or less doubling every generation. That would put PS4 at $1200! This is also assuming console makers can afford to lose hundreds of dollars on hardware from the get go.
2) With each generation, consoles become more like a computer. I think that the XBOX will just disappear into some Microsoft hardware used to manage your DVD (HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) collection, music collection, TV programming, word processing, email, Internet Explorer, and gaming. In short, consoles will become a PC. Sony will find themselves in a deep water though, the cost of developing a high level OS isn't cheap, unless you use Linux (which I like more). People for whatever reason are scared to learn anything that isn't windows.
3) DirectX10 looks amazing. It looks to be very promising. With the next-gen consoles not coming out for another 7-10 years, computers are going to be WAY ahead of console's power (already are in a lot of cases).
4) With kids learning computers in school they are becoming more tech saavy and have higher expectations for new tech. The younger generation is not afraid of computers and have a decent understanding of them.
Some of the major disadvantages of PC games are:
1) Wide range of hardware. Harder to develope for. You can't assume anything about what the player has. A wide variety of systems make it more difficult to provide customer care for.
2) Some of the console franchises aren't coming to the PC any time soon.
3) Consoles are just easier to use for the general public.
I don't know what will happen but I think it makes for an interesting conversation.
#2
11/21/2006 (3:46 pm)
@N R - I know that Sony's laptops were called the VAIO. Is that what you where thinking of? 
#3
Otherwise, technical issues will probably merge the two together within a console generation or two. They're clearly moving in that direction.
11/21/2006 (3:47 pm)
Consoles won't die until the gaming styles they each support can merge. Sitting on a couch and playing with friends is very different from sitting in front of a smaller screen alone.Otherwise, technical issues will probably merge the two together within a console generation or two. They're clearly moving in that direction.
#4
11/27/2006 (3:57 pm)
I can't see consoles dying... in fact, I think we have yet to see the best of what they can offer. I think that consoles are evolving into multi-featured entertainment boxes for TV, Movies, Internet, and Games. And hey, who knows. Maybe one of these days you'll be able to dial up your friends through your nifty black box and chat with them live on your high-def plasma TV. Now THAT would be great!!!
#5
Ten, Fifteen years ago consoles were popular dedicated gaming machines because PC's weren't as nimble or fast as gaming machines. Now that PC's are all supercomputers in comparison to those days, and have the gaming ability as well as media and production capabilities Consoles have been needing to add gimmicks to draw crowds in. E-Z online gaming, Exclusive titles, Unique Controllers, Built-in Media Centers, but the functionality still doesn't exceed that of a decent PC.
The only defining difference in my eyes with the current generation is that Consoles generally support multiple players, whereas PC's are usually one-each.
11/27/2006 (10:25 pm)
To me it's not the death of the console - though it is the death of the console being any different from a mid-range PC.Ten, Fifteen years ago consoles were popular dedicated gaming machines because PC's weren't as nimble or fast as gaming machines. Now that PC's are all supercomputers in comparison to those days, and have the gaming ability as well as media and production capabilities Consoles have been needing to add gimmicks to draw crowds in. E-Z online gaming, Exclusive titles, Unique Controllers, Built-in Media Centers, but the functionality still doesn't exceed that of a decent PC.
The only defining difference in my eyes with the current generation is that Consoles generally support multiple players, whereas PC's are usually one-each.
#6
Everytime you put a house or trailer on the power grid you have a potential customer.
Globally it's nuts the potential for all forms of games.
There are just a few things going on right now slowing down things but that's mostly hardware issue.
Either too many junk GPU's in inventory or just older ones so reliable no one wants to upgrade.
Too bad all GPU's slower than say a 7800 would just blow up right now... would make our
life a lot easier... lol (in terms of quickly modernizing the PC game force).
12/02/2006 (3:58 am)
No way.. All the segments of electronic entertainment and games will grow.Everytime you put a house or trailer on the power grid you have a potential customer.
Globally it's nuts the potential for all forms of games.
There are just a few things going on right now slowing down things but that's mostly hardware issue.
Either too many junk GPU's in inventory or just older ones so reliable no one wants to upgrade.
Too bad all GPU's slower than say a 7800 would just blow up right now... would make our
life a lot easier... lol (in terms of quickly modernizing the PC game force).
#7
I just paid $1,500 to build a new music studio PC. Core 2 Duo, 2 gigs of DDR2 ram and all that. All I need to do now is get a $700 video card and I probably still won't be that much better than a $300 360 or $500 PS3 when it comes to gaming.
They become more like computers but they're still consoles. They're still plug and play. Auto updates, no game instalations (there are always exceptions), and I never have to worry about one part or program conflicting with another. With the PS3 you may have the option to run Linux and use it as a PC but the majority of PS3 owners won't. I doubt that'll change in the next 10 or 20 years or even ever. Most kids will learn about computers in school, but most of them won't be into technology enough to be able to do anything worth while.
Consoles are big money, easy to use, and way cheaper to the consumer than any PC with near equal power. Consumers need that shiny new box to look at along with that technology jump every 5 years. It's added marketing hype. If consoles gradually got better like PC do, people will remain jaded instead of being blown away.
I believe you will always have your console, and you will always have your PC. They are getting more and more simmilar, but they are still different enough at their cores to keep their individuality from the controls and ease of use to the thing you sit on and look at while you play them. There will always be a market for both.
-Ajari-
12/02/2006 (8:34 am)
This is the only generation where the price of a console has doubled from what it used to be, and it's only with the PS3 (And 3D0, Neo-Geo back in the early '90s if you wanna get spacific). The price for the NES was around $250 and so is the price of the Wii. The Dreamcast was even less than that at $200. I can get an Xbox 360 for $300 which is the same price as the PS1, PS2, and Xbox when they launched.I just paid $1,500 to build a new music studio PC. Core 2 Duo, 2 gigs of DDR2 ram and all that. All I need to do now is get a $700 video card and I probably still won't be that much better than a $300 360 or $500 PS3 when it comes to gaming.
They become more like computers but they're still consoles. They're still plug and play. Auto updates, no game instalations (there are always exceptions), and I never have to worry about one part or program conflicting with another. With the PS3 you may have the option to run Linux and use it as a PC but the majority of PS3 owners won't. I doubt that'll change in the next 10 or 20 years or even ever. Most kids will learn about computers in school, but most of them won't be into technology enough to be able to do anything worth while.
Consoles are big money, easy to use, and way cheaper to the consumer than any PC with near equal power. Consumers need that shiny new box to look at along with that technology jump every 5 years. It's added marketing hype. If consoles gradually got better like PC do, people will remain jaded instead of being blown away.
I believe you will always have your console, and you will always have your PC. They are getting more and more simmilar, but they are still different enough at their cores to keep their individuality from the controls and ease of use to the thing you sit on and look at while you play them. There will always be a market for both.
-Ajari-
#8
2) You are forgetting that the widest use for a personal computer is not gamming but for office work used in companies around the world. Although consoles may become comparable one day there will always be a place for the seperate computer.
3) How many games really take advantage of shader model 3.0? Shader model 4.0 games are a long way off, even with vista just around the corner.
4) People havent need decent computer knowledge to get a PC working for over a decade. Especially the 13 and up age group which is traditionally the big cash cow market for computer games.
You seem to miss the large point that console games and pc games tend to fit entirely different areas of peoples lives.
Console games are generally easy on the brain, they are simple to learn, shying away from anything complex, use lots of storylines that people are already comfortable and do their best not to rock the boat. A console game is designed to be played in the front room, on a sofa, surrounded more often than not by other people.
A PC game tends to be more complex and are usually designed to keep players at the computer for longer periods of time than a console game is. A PC game is often more of a private affair and usually arnt entertaining for other people to watch which leads to the person in their bed room hunched over a pc image, traditionally associated with pc gaming.
As for all pre 7800 gpus exploding, although that would be nice, DirectX 10 does offer a similar, if less destructive solution by offering a set of standard features a graphics card must have before being classed as DirectX 10 compatible. Although this will go to hell when nVIDIA and ATI add features beyond this that each other dont ahve and we are forced into an endless cycle of trying to use both of their unique capabilities while offering the same experience on both.
Then again this conversation happens every time a new generation of consoles are released and for a brief year or two consoles have similar capabilities to pcs for graphics rendering. Within a year or two pcs will toddle off ahead again and everyone will stop wondering if they will converge. Until next time..... :P
12/02/2006 (8:46 am)
1) Past trends do not always predict furture trends. Besides if price is an issue its very hard to keep in touch on the PC gaming side, the recent nvidia graphics card costs more than an XBox 360 (or atleast in my country)2) You are forgetting that the widest use for a personal computer is not gamming but for office work used in companies around the world. Although consoles may become comparable one day there will always be a place for the seperate computer.
3) How many games really take advantage of shader model 3.0? Shader model 4.0 games are a long way off, even with vista just around the corner.
4) People havent need decent computer knowledge to get a PC working for over a decade. Especially the 13 and up age group which is traditionally the big cash cow market for computer games.
You seem to miss the large point that console games and pc games tend to fit entirely different areas of peoples lives.
Console games are generally easy on the brain, they are simple to learn, shying away from anything complex, use lots of storylines that people are already comfortable and do their best not to rock the boat. A console game is designed to be played in the front room, on a sofa, surrounded more often than not by other people.
A PC game tends to be more complex and are usually designed to keep players at the computer for longer periods of time than a console game is. A PC game is often more of a private affair and usually arnt entertaining for other people to watch which leads to the person in their bed room hunched over a pc image, traditionally associated with pc gaming.
As for all pre 7800 gpus exploding, although that would be nice, DirectX 10 does offer a similar, if less destructive solution by offering a set of standard features a graphics card must have before being classed as DirectX 10 compatible. Although this will go to hell when nVIDIA and ATI add features beyond this that each other dont ahve and we are forced into an endless cycle of trying to use both of their unique capabilities while offering the same experience on both.
Then again this conversation happens every time a new generation of consoles are released and for a brief year or two consoles have similar capabilities to pcs for graphics rendering. Within a year or two pcs will toddle off ahead again and everyone will stop wondering if they will converge. Until next time..... :P
#9
That's just my opinion though.
12/07/2006 (5:06 pm)
Why consoles will always dominate in not-the-most tech-savy families(or the ones that don't want to spend alot of money on gaming) - You never have to lay down a few hundred dollars every few months so you can play the next Prey or Half-Life 2. You only have to put out, at the most, $500-$600 every few Christmas'.That's just my opinion though.
#10
12/23/2006 (8:08 pm)
Thoes are very good points I think we're going to be seeing a shift to consoles and pc secondary although pc will continue to be supported I don't think major games are going to come out on pc first then shift to consoles. I agree think that piracy does play a big part in this. I wonder what the ratio is sales on pc vs. sales on consoles for games on both I'll have to do some research.
#11
As said a PC game always has to be scaled down to a lowestd denominator called minimum requirements.
I update my computer about once every 3 yrs and only piecemeal usually.
As for PC games the only genres that are left that are really for the PC are RTS and MMOGs (like WOW). FPSs have moved to the consoles with few of them going to PC first. (Think Halo) With the advent and success of LOTR:BFME + expansions, PSO, PSU, and FF Online (FFXI) + expansions. We see that the trend for these games are moving to consoles more succesfully then previously thought.
Not necessarily, think Splinter Cell (esp. Double Agent), GRAW, Gears of War, pikmin, Mario Party. UNless you are refering to RTS games and between good RTS players matches can last for sometime. Yet as I said above look at LOTR:BFME. I will agree that a PC game even in multiplayer or a LAN party is still a pretty intimate and [bold]PRIVATE[/bold] affair.
It is the market not fear that software is bulit mainly for windows. Macs and UNIX/Linux are specialized OSs. Macs have been generally for artists types and Linux has been for Networking gurus. Most people don't fall into these categories and have opted for the Windows platform. I haved learned unix and used but I can say I like the windows more for functionality and easy of use (not having to do a lot of things via command line). Yet these are traditionally unsupported as they weren't built specifically with games in mind. More mere afterthoughts.
Just My 2 Cents.
12/23/2006 (10:01 pm)
One must remember that also overall quality is an area where consoles outrank PCs. Consoles have a specific hardware setting that is universal to that system and allow the programmers to create a very high quality game in terms of speed, loading and graphics.As said a PC game always has to be scaled down to a lowestd denominator called minimum requirements.
Quote:I just paid $1,500 to build a new music studio PC. Core 2 Duo, 2 gigs of DDR2 ram and all that. All I need to do now is get a $700 video card and I probably still won't be that much better than a $300 360 or $500 PS3 when it comes to gaming.
I update my computer about once every 3 yrs and only piecemeal usually.
As for PC games the only genres that are left that are really for the PC are RTS and MMOGs (like WOW). FPSs have moved to the consoles with few of them going to PC first. (Think Halo) With the advent and success of LOTR:BFME + expansions, PSO, PSU, and FF Online (FFXI) + expansions. We see that the trend for these games are moving to consoles more succesfully then previously thought.
Quote:A PC game tends to be more complex and are usually designed to keep players at the computer for longer periods of time than a console game is. A PC game is often more of a private affair and usually arnt entertaining for other people to watch which leads to the person in their bed room hunched over a pc image, traditionally associated with pc gaming.
Not necessarily, think Splinter Cell (esp. Double Agent), GRAW, Gears of War, pikmin, Mario Party. UNless you are refering to RTS games and between good RTS players matches can last for sometime. Yet as I said above look at LOTR:BFME. I will agree that a PC game even in multiplayer or a LAN party is still a pretty intimate and [bold]PRIVATE[/bold] affair.
Quote:Sony will find themselves in a deep water though, the cost of developing a high level OS isn't cheap, unless you use Linux (which I like more). People for whatever reason are scared to learn anything that isn't windows.
It is the market not fear that software is bulit mainly for windows. Macs and UNIX/Linux are specialized OSs. Macs have been generally for artists types and Linux has been for Networking gurus. Most people don't fall into these categories and have opted for the Windows platform. I haved learned unix and used but I can say I like the windows more for functionality and easy of use (not having to do a lot of things via command line). Yet these are traditionally unsupported as they weren't built specifically with games in mind. More mere afterthoughts.
Just My 2 Cents.
#12
01/08/2007 (6:29 am)
Consoles will be around forever they will only parrallel PC's but not replace them. There may be a market for an upgradable console but them being diminished won't happen. And the average life span of a system is 3 - 5 years Max, not 7- 10.
#13
You think so? I mean with things like web browsers and linux(PS3) on console, along with mouses and keyboards for the consoles I can easily see consoles surpassing PCs. And with several major RTS' being successfully(unlike the Red Alerts for the PSOne) on to consoles(for example, the new Command & Conquer will come out on the 360, and the one LOTR rts is for the 360, and very fun to play), I can picture the PC loosing the RTS market in the next 6 years. And now that consoles can have hard drives, web browsers, and Linux and them, I can picture the modding community(especially the FPS modding community) shifting towards the next-next-gen consoles in about 7-10 years.
But these are just my opinions. I just know I am strongly considering switchting most of my gaming to consoles and getting a 360 to accompany my Wii, especially with the LOTR rts and the new C&C rts coming for the 360(both of those use the same engine, so C&C should be just as easy to do as the LOTR one).
01/14/2007 (10:53 am)
@CappaucinoYou think so? I mean with things like web browsers and linux(PS3) on console, along with mouses and keyboards for the consoles I can easily see consoles surpassing PCs. And with several major RTS' being successfully(unlike the Red Alerts for the PSOne) on to consoles(for example, the new Command & Conquer will come out on the 360, and the one LOTR rts is for the 360, and very fun to play), I can picture the PC loosing the RTS market in the next 6 years. And now that consoles can have hard drives, web browsers, and Linux and them, I can picture the modding community(especially the FPS modding community) shifting towards the next-next-gen consoles in about 7-10 years.
But these are just my opinions. I just know I am strongly considering switchting most of my gaming to consoles and getting a 360 to accompany my Wii, especially with the LOTR rts and the new C&C rts coming for the 360(both of those use the same engine, so C&C should be just as easy to do as the LOTR one).
#14
Direct X 10 will be great, however since so many people will be lacking directX 10 support for a least two or three years(I am talking hardware here), no games will implement full directx 10 features for years to come.
I am a long time console and PC gamer. I have always enjoyed the PC gaming experience a bit more, however I hope they both continue to thrive. Its good competition for both, without the other I think one might become stagnate.
01/18/2007 (11:45 am)
I know this is a very hot topic, but I think consoles are going to continue to go strong for years to come. Quite simply, its due to the wide range of hardware that PCs have in today's world. I read a great article that was stating how intel killed computer gaming. This article went to the extreme, however the article simply stated that so many computer users these days have integrated graphics, they are not able to run some of the more advanced games we have today.Direct X 10 will be great, however since so many people will be lacking directX 10 support for a least two or three years(I am talking hardware here), no games will implement full directx 10 features for years to come.
I am a long time console and PC gamer. I have always enjoyed the PC gaming experience a bit more, however I hope they both continue to thrive. Its good competition for both, without the other I think one might become stagnate.
#15
1) Console prices are more or less doubling every generation. That would put PS4 at $1200! This is also assuming console makers can afford to lose hundreds of dollars on hardware from the get go.
Not all consoles are doubling. Really, only Sony made that mistake. The Wii is being sold for 250. The gamecube was 200 on launch back in '01. The original Xbox was 300, the deluxe 360 was 400, no? So really that's only a point against Sony.
2) With each generation, consoles become more like a computer. I think that the XBOX will just disappear into some Microsoft hardware used to manage your DVD (HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) collection, music collection, TV programming, word processing, email, Internet Explorer, and gaming. In short, consoles will become a PC. Sony will find themselves in a deep water though, the cost of developing a high level OS isn't cheap, unless you use Linux (which I like more). People for whatever reason are scared to learn anything that isn't windows.
Yeah, I agree here, but consoles differ in that they aren't as modifiable [legally] as computers. I can update my PC's memory or processor or hard drive, when I want and how I want. Other than buying a different version of a console, you're kinda stuck with that console's specs, so they are more stand alone units than the PC. but mostly, yes i agree
3) DirectX10 looks amazing. It looks to be very promising. With the next-gen consoles not coming out for another 7-10 years, computers are going to be WAY ahead of console's power (already are in a lot of cases)
Well, computers have more or less always been ahead of consoles. However, as better tech is made for the consoles, I think the margin between the systems will become less over time. and console's don't come out 7-10 years. They may remain in the market that long, but the current gen systems were released in what, '01? at least the Cube was. here we are only 6 years later [5 since 360 came out last year] and there are rumors that some of the head honchos are already looking ahead to the Xbox 540 and PS4.
4) With kids learning computers in school they are becoming more tech saavy and have higher expectations for new tech. The younger generation is not afraid of computers and have a decent understanding of them.
Well, kids have never really had a problem adapting to console's, either.
02/23/2007 (9:12 pm)
Ok, I haven't had time to read everyone's comments [I just joined up here today] so sorry if I repeat anything.1) Console prices are more or less doubling every generation. That would put PS4 at $1200! This is also assuming console makers can afford to lose hundreds of dollars on hardware from the get go.
Not all consoles are doubling. Really, only Sony made that mistake. The Wii is being sold for 250. The gamecube was 200 on launch back in '01. The original Xbox was 300, the deluxe 360 was 400, no? So really that's only a point against Sony.
2) With each generation, consoles become more like a computer. I think that the XBOX will just disappear into some Microsoft hardware used to manage your DVD (HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) collection, music collection, TV programming, word processing, email, Internet Explorer, and gaming. In short, consoles will become a PC. Sony will find themselves in a deep water though, the cost of developing a high level OS isn't cheap, unless you use Linux (which I like more). People for whatever reason are scared to learn anything that isn't windows.
Yeah, I agree here, but consoles differ in that they aren't as modifiable [legally] as computers. I can update my PC's memory or processor or hard drive, when I want and how I want. Other than buying a different version of a console, you're kinda stuck with that console's specs, so they are more stand alone units than the PC. but mostly, yes i agree
3) DirectX10 looks amazing. It looks to be very promising. With the next-gen consoles not coming out for another 7-10 years, computers are going to be WAY ahead of console's power (already are in a lot of cases)
Well, computers have more or less always been ahead of consoles. However, as better tech is made for the consoles, I think the margin between the systems will become less over time. and console's don't come out 7-10 years. They may remain in the market that long, but the current gen systems were released in what, '01? at least the Cube was. here we are only 6 years later [5 since 360 came out last year] and there are rumors that some of the head honchos are already looking ahead to the Xbox 540 and PS4.
4) With kids learning computers in school they are becoming more tech saavy and have higher expectations for new tech. The younger generation is not afraid of computers and have a decent understanding of them.
Well, kids have never really had a problem adapting to console's, either.
#16
That is extremely untrue, historically speaking. The 3DO, CD-i, PAC, and NeoGeo were more expensive then(or for the PAC, around the same price) even the PS3, and those are a couple of generations old.
02/25/2007 (2:05 pm)
Jacob drew my attention to this quote with his post above-Quote:Console prices are more or less doubling every generation.
That is extremely untrue, historically speaking. The 3DO, CD-i, PAC, and NeoGeo were more expensive then(or for the PAC, around the same price) even the PS3, and those are a couple of generations old.
#17
The all in one is not far off at all look at the xbox 360 it's windows based, has graphics card and everything it's a windows pc in a box, ps is linux based. The all in one will come faster then people know and I think that will be good for gaming, as it is right now it is rare to have the players of the same game on a console be able to play the gamers on a pc, so imagine how much better the player base will be with an all in one anyways. The best thing of an all in one would be putting pc gamers on an even playing field the way console gamers are.
As for console prices, they arn't that bad when you think of how much play time you get out of them, if you want to play all the new pc games constantly you pay much more in the upgrades. I think game prices are working their way up a little too much though, nothing worse then paying $60 on a game beating it in a couple weeks due to lack of content and having a crappy multiplayer so you never get your money out of it
04/02/2007 (4:31 am)
It's tough to say when it will happen but it is pretty much guaranteed to happen that there will be an all in one system and that will be for everything. Houses will eventually have computers integrated into the whole house. Companies arn't even making CRT tvs anymore LCD and plasma all the way so having those nice screens hooked into computers and wireless controllers would allow console players to feel right at home, add a portable desk with wireless mouse/keyboard and pc gamers are right at home (eventually console gamers will figure out that the only games controllers are better for are sports games, a mouse is such a better tool for fps right now) The all in one is not far off at all look at the xbox 360 it's windows based, has graphics card and everything it's a windows pc in a box, ps is linux based. The all in one will come faster then people know and I think that will be good for gaming, as it is right now it is rare to have the players of the same game on a console be able to play the gamers on a pc, so imagine how much better the player base will be with an all in one anyways. The best thing of an all in one would be putting pc gamers on an even playing field the way console gamers are.
As for console prices, they arn't that bad when you think of how much play time you get out of them, if you want to play all the new pc games constantly you pay much more in the upgrades. I think game prices are working their way up a little too much though, nothing worse then paying $60 on a game beating it in a couple weeks due to lack of content and having a crappy multiplayer so you never get your money out of it
Torque Owner N R Bharathae
It may be hardware like this will help establish some standards for developers. It may be these media-hubs will become the market's answer to the wide-range of user hardware.