Violent people play violent video games?
by AzraelK · in General Discussion · 05/24/2002 (12:14 pm) · 45 replies
I think Ive just the jackpot in one of our industry most discussed themes, and found a way to put a nail to this discussion forever!
My theory is the following:
People who like and/or some how aprove violence as a way to deal with ackward situations (even imaginarily) enjoy to play violent games.
And is counter part
People who dont believe in violence and disaprove it opt to play other kind of games or activities.
Is as simple as that! for years governments have expent their time and money trying to solve this simple issue, media has fought to link them to henious crimes, this is THE explanation!
Enjoying violent games are a RESULT of violent behaviour not a CAUSE
Thats why some kids who play games act violently because they already are violent ot begin with! (some how) video games act as a form to vent this violent behaviour thats all.
If they werent violent they would reject this kind of
games, is as obvious as that!
Case 1:
I have a 3 year old kid, since he was born he tended to be a bit agressive to other kids and grown ups trying to hurt him (like doctors trying to inyect him) dont take it wrong he is very sweet he is just over protective of himself since he was born.
Since I love games I introduced him to them since he was 2 he liked the colors and the movement of child games, but at 3 he had choices for games and rejected most than werent interesting to him the list began to grew smaller and smaller at the end his favorites were platform
games with cuddly critters and (guess!) fighting games! (he is 3 I dont allow him to play M games of course) at the end he liked Tekken above all games, he even learned
to say "Tekken" correctly to ask for it by name.
A few days ago my wife said, "the kid is agressive because you let him play that game!". Then it hit me! he has always been agressive! (is kind of hard not to remember a new born kicking his doctor so he would let him go!) he just choose his favorite from a
pile, no one forced him too, he is a bit agressive, so he likes agressive games!
I can make him play a puzzle or a rpg (maybe for a while) but at the end he is always back at tekken!
Case 2:
(this is a bit less scientific but more obvious)
I can make by brother play quake3 or doom not even if his life depended on it, by brother REJECTS very violent games (he could play a fighter or tribes 2 but not doom) I couldnt force him too. Why is this?
Because according his values playing DOOM is WRONG. there is nothing fun about blasting a man/critter entrails out, even if its a simulation its just wrong and he wont do it!
Conclussion:
People who like violence play violent games, people who reject violence (at some level) reject violent games.
People who commit violent acts are attached to violent games or music or movies because thats the kind of entertainment they enjoy!
Is as simple as that! we are looking at the results not the causes!
Of course this does not mean that a man who plays "soldier of fortune" must be locked away, it simply means he doesnt reject that kind of behaviour, and that could be because:
*He/she realizes is just a game and concentrates on the excitement, realism may bring to the experience.
Or B
*He/she secretly desires this kind of behaviours and finds that he/she can liberate this forbidden desires through a videogame without worries because is just a GAME!
As soon as I realized this I came here to share my theory with you! I think this may just be what we were looking for! this may be our defense!
Please share your thoughts about this!
(Do you know someone who may actually give good use to this info?)
My theory is the following:
People who like and/or some how aprove violence as a way to deal with ackward situations (even imaginarily) enjoy to play violent games.
And is counter part
People who dont believe in violence and disaprove it opt to play other kind of games or activities.
Is as simple as that! for years governments have expent their time and money trying to solve this simple issue, media has fought to link them to henious crimes, this is THE explanation!
Enjoying violent games are a RESULT of violent behaviour not a CAUSE
Thats why some kids who play games act violently because they already are violent ot begin with! (some how) video games act as a form to vent this violent behaviour thats all.
If they werent violent they would reject this kind of
games, is as obvious as that!
Case 1:
I have a 3 year old kid, since he was born he tended to be a bit agressive to other kids and grown ups trying to hurt him (like doctors trying to inyect him) dont take it wrong he is very sweet he is just over protective of himself since he was born.
Since I love games I introduced him to them since he was 2 he liked the colors and the movement of child games, but at 3 he had choices for games and rejected most than werent interesting to him the list began to grew smaller and smaller at the end his favorites were platform
games with cuddly critters and (guess!) fighting games! (he is 3 I dont allow him to play M games of course) at the end he liked Tekken above all games, he even learned
to say "Tekken" correctly to ask for it by name.
A few days ago my wife said, "the kid is agressive because you let him play that game!". Then it hit me! he has always been agressive! (is kind of hard not to remember a new born kicking his doctor so he would let him go!) he just choose his favorite from a
pile, no one forced him too, he is a bit agressive, so he likes agressive games!
I can make him play a puzzle or a rpg (maybe for a while) but at the end he is always back at tekken!
Case 2:
(this is a bit less scientific but more obvious)
I can make by brother play quake3 or doom not even if his life depended on it, by brother REJECTS very violent games (he could play a fighter or tribes 2 but not doom) I couldnt force him too. Why is this?
Because according his values playing DOOM is WRONG. there is nothing fun about blasting a man/critter entrails out, even if its a simulation its just wrong and he wont do it!
Conclussion:
People who like violence play violent games, people who reject violence (at some level) reject violent games.
People who commit violent acts are attached to violent games or music or movies because thats the kind of entertainment they enjoy!
Is as simple as that! we are looking at the results not the causes!
Of course this does not mean that a man who plays "soldier of fortune" must be locked away, it simply means he doesnt reject that kind of behaviour, and that could be because:
*He/she realizes is just a game and concentrates on the excitement, realism may bring to the experience.
Or B
*He/she secretly desires this kind of behaviours and finds that he/she can liberate this forbidden desires through a videogame without worries because is just a GAME!
As soon as I realized this I came here to share my theory with you! I think this may just be what we were looking for! this may be our defense!
Please share your thoughts about this!
(Do you know someone who may actually give good use to this info?)
#22
You might as well say the same thing about Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail. I think that movie is hilarious, especially the 'Black Knight' scene where the dude gets all of his limbs chopped off. Am I violent? No.
The thing is, violence does not upset me. Do I like violence? No, not especially, it just doesn't upset me. In fact, in some contexts it is humorous, while in other contexts it reinforces positive behavior. (For instance, Star Wars, ie good-vs-evil). And so much of this stuff is subjective; what's funny to me may not be funny to you, and what constitutes fighting for a 'noble cause' and 'justified violence' will change from one person to another.
But, anyways, the short answer is: you're wrong.
05/26/2002 (4:00 pm)
Well, I think that if you think about your reasoning a little, you'll understand that your arguements are very biased towards your personal opinion.You might as well say the same thing about Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail. I think that movie is hilarious, especially the 'Black Knight' scene where the dude gets all of his limbs chopped off. Am I violent? No.
The thing is, violence does not upset me. Do I like violence? No, not especially, it just doesn't upset me. In fact, in some contexts it is humorous, while in other contexts it reinforces positive behavior. (For instance, Star Wars, ie good-vs-evil). And so much of this stuff is subjective; what's funny to me may not be funny to you, and what constitutes fighting for a 'noble cause' and 'justified violence' will change from one person to another.
But, anyways, the short answer is: you're wrong.
#23
I think your half right.
Socioty, as a whole is violent. Now, I look at the types of games that come from what region and european countries seem to come out with the most consistantly, and increasingly violent games. I mean, while Quake is the most popular style game in the US, Japan is addicted to Dance Dance Revolution. While we make developers that go out of their way to make sure guts and stuff spew from the characters, and build death engines... Japan is making games that siulate being a bus driver for a day, walking the dog, running a game corperation, and messing around with a college kid's apt. We make WW2 sims, they make Dating sims.
Now while I say that, I won't deny the grey areas. Now there are, I suppose, non-violent people who are entertained by acts of violence. But I'd have to wonder how they explain it to themselves. As games get more realistic looking, I think some may mistake "violent" and "non Violent"
Now, waning to have a gun and go blow up people, is violent. That's agreed. Now what about the blowing up of afganastan for the Sept 11th attacks. Is that violent? Alot of us (Me included) have been subject to the mind set, that if someone deos something we disapprove of, they should be handled physically. May not be by that person. They may not want it to be done. But the though of "Kicking Their ass" still pops up. Being antsy around guns, may not come from a pacifistic persona, but more of fear.
Now fighting games, grey area, the friend who likes them cause their fast, deffinate grey area.
Anoter clear grey area? Agression.
Now I know of some, me included, who tend to play violent games to let go of agression. How is that related with violent tendacies (sp)? Well, people who do that, tend to do that because in a game world, they can do what ever they please, without consiquence.
I will play UT and so on to my hearts content. I though am personally disguested by Solider Of Fortune 2, and GTA3 and the new UT. Why? Because the developers felt they had to go out of their way to make the game more violent. I have refused to play SOF2, I have played GTA3, and enjoyed the missions and openended ness of the game. But that quickly melted into hatred as a viewd a friend playing it ONLY to beat down innocent people, blow up poliec choppers and NOT do the missions.
But then...
It's only a game...............
05/26/2002 (8:17 pm)
I have to put in my $0.02 Here. This is something I've pondered and observed for a while.I think your half right.
Socioty, as a whole is violent. Now, I look at the types of games that come from what region and european countries seem to come out with the most consistantly, and increasingly violent games. I mean, while Quake is the most popular style game in the US, Japan is addicted to Dance Dance Revolution. While we make developers that go out of their way to make sure guts and stuff spew from the characters, and build death engines... Japan is making games that siulate being a bus driver for a day, walking the dog, running a game corperation, and messing around with a college kid's apt. We make WW2 sims, they make Dating sims.
Now while I say that, I won't deny the grey areas. Now there are, I suppose, non-violent people who are entertained by acts of violence. But I'd have to wonder how they explain it to themselves. As games get more realistic looking, I think some may mistake "violent" and "non Violent"
Now, waning to have a gun and go blow up people, is violent. That's agreed. Now what about the blowing up of afganastan for the Sept 11th attacks. Is that violent? Alot of us (Me included) have been subject to the mind set, that if someone deos something we disapprove of, they should be handled physically. May not be by that person. They may not want it to be done. But the though of "Kicking Their ass" still pops up. Being antsy around guns, may not come from a pacifistic persona, but more of fear.
Now fighting games, grey area, the friend who likes them cause their fast, deffinate grey area.
Anoter clear grey area? Agression.
Now I know of some, me included, who tend to play violent games to let go of agression. How is that related with violent tendacies (sp)? Well, people who do that, tend to do that because in a game world, they can do what ever they please, without consiquence.
I will play UT and so on to my hearts content. I though am personally disguested by Solider Of Fortune 2, and GTA3 and the new UT. Why? Because the developers felt they had to go out of their way to make the game more violent. I have refused to play SOF2, I have played GTA3, and enjoyed the missions and openended ness of the game. But that quickly melted into hatred as a viewd a friend playing it ONLY to beat down innocent people, blow up poliec choppers and NOT do the missions.
But then...
It's only a game...............
#24
The fact is that it just depends on the person playing the game. One person can play GTA3 and just have fun seeing if he can scale one particular hill with a semi truck (a friend of mine spent three days of vacation time trying to get a semi to make that one water's-edge jump on the first island). Another person can play the game and you get a kind of chill watching them play, and you realize that it's a good thing this person is too clueless and spineless to ever acquire a position of real authority . . .
But the point is that it all comes down to the person that plays the game. It's all about making choices. Some games do not provide non-violent alternatives (ie, SOF2, every shooter), but that does not mean that violent people play them! Honestly, an entirely non-violent person can spend hours blowing limbs off of virtual people and still get sick at the sight of a nosebleed; they can kill a cat in a game yet own three or four *extremely* pampered cats (ok, maybe not that one, but that's just because cat owners are MESSED UP, I mean HELLOOOOOO your cats don't even like you HELLOOOOOO if you die in your sleep and no food is available do you realize that your cat will EAT YOUR FACE until your flesh becomes too putrid to eat, whereas a dog would just loyally sit by your side until it starves to death).
Can you classify games as 'violent', yes, I think you can with some games. SOF2 is a very violent game. However, only a blithering idiot would say that violent games are played mostly by violent people, or any other moronic association of that sort.
I mean, for God's sake. Overall, I'll bet that MMORPG players are the most violent -- they're the most reclusive, and they probably suffer more frustration than any other game players.
Also, I never let out aggressions when I play a game. If I go into it with that mindset, I get more frustrated. Instead, I play games to escape, to drift away, to engage myself in something interesting and captivating. And any agression I was feeling dissolves.
05/26/2002 (9:06 pm)
It's all subjective.The fact is that it just depends on the person playing the game. One person can play GTA3 and just have fun seeing if he can scale one particular hill with a semi truck (a friend of mine spent three days of vacation time trying to get a semi to make that one water's-edge jump on the first island). Another person can play the game and you get a kind of chill watching them play, and you realize that it's a good thing this person is too clueless and spineless to ever acquire a position of real authority . . .
But the point is that it all comes down to the person that plays the game. It's all about making choices. Some games do not provide non-violent alternatives (ie, SOF2, every shooter), but that does not mean that violent people play them! Honestly, an entirely non-violent person can spend hours blowing limbs off of virtual people and still get sick at the sight of a nosebleed; they can kill a cat in a game yet own three or four *extremely* pampered cats (ok, maybe not that one, but that's just because cat owners are MESSED UP, I mean HELLOOOOOO your cats don't even like you HELLOOOOOO if you die in your sleep and no food is available do you realize that your cat will EAT YOUR FACE until your flesh becomes too putrid to eat, whereas a dog would just loyally sit by your side until it starves to death).
Can you classify games as 'violent', yes, I think you can with some games. SOF2 is a very violent game. However, only a blithering idiot would say that violent games are played mostly by violent people, or any other moronic association of that sort.
I mean, for God's sake. Overall, I'll bet that MMORPG players are the most violent -- they're the most reclusive, and they probably suffer more frustration than any other game players.
Also, I never let out aggressions when I play a game. If I go into it with that mindset, I get more frustrated. Instead, I play games to escape, to drift away, to engage myself in something interesting and captivating. And any agression I was feeling dissolves.
#25
These are CULTURAL gaming preferences, not to be confused with CULTURAL violence preferences.
But don't doubt for a minute that the Japanese don't have a violent side, it is just not expressed in games, but mostly in motion picture entertainment, specifically ANIMATED violence.
I am a like certain anime, and the Japanese have put out some of the most gruesome, violent, scenes of destruction and mutilation to a human body in their "cartoons" that you will ever see. They make the most violent video game form the US look silly by comparison. Most of this is so over the top that I don't enjoy it, especially the Horror genre anime. I like the simple old school Mech anime genre. And even those had some gruesome scenes.
Violent people commit violent acts every day that have NEVER played a video game in their life.
The commited these acts BEFORE video games were invented, BEFORE motion pictures were invented, BEFORE television was invented, BEFORE rock-n-roll was invented, BEFORE printing presses and writing was invented, well BEFORE BEFORE.
Violence is in our NATURE as human beings, to deny it is to deny our humanity. Violence in all forms or entertainment is nothing more than a natural release of the natural violent tendencies that we know longer get to act out in "polite" society.
What do you think the Colisseum was built for!
I can just hear them now, "I am a pacifist!. I abhore violence, I would NEVER spear someone in the back or throw a Christian to a lion, but I don't mind watching someone else do it! "
05/26/2002 (9:21 pm)
Japan also has those freaky "dating" games, and lots of bizarra ideas about sexuality and its inclusion in games that is strickly "taboo" in the US.These are CULTURAL gaming preferences, not to be confused with CULTURAL violence preferences.
But don't doubt for a minute that the Japanese don't have a violent side, it is just not expressed in games, but mostly in motion picture entertainment, specifically ANIMATED violence.
I am a like certain anime, and the Japanese have put out some of the most gruesome, violent, scenes of destruction and mutilation to a human body in their "cartoons" that you will ever see. They make the most violent video game form the US look silly by comparison. Most of this is so over the top that I don't enjoy it, especially the Horror genre anime. I like the simple old school Mech anime genre. And even those had some gruesome scenes.
Violent people commit violent acts every day that have NEVER played a video game in their life.
The commited these acts BEFORE video games were invented, BEFORE motion pictures were invented, BEFORE television was invented, BEFORE rock-n-roll was invented, BEFORE printing presses and writing was invented, well BEFORE BEFORE.
Violence is in our NATURE as human beings, to deny it is to deny our humanity. Violence in all forms or entertainment is nothing more than a natural release of the natural violent tendencies that we know longer get to act out in "polite" society.
What do you think the Colisseum was built for!
I can just hear them now, "I am a pacifist!. I abhore violence, I would NEVER spear someone in the back or throw a Christian to a lion, but I don't mind watching someone else do it! "
#26
Sure, Japanese games may tend to be non-violent, but that doesn't say much about the culture. Watch or read about some of their game shows...many of which involve REAL HUMAN TORTURE. Sick, disgusting stuff...really disgusting.
Re: GTA3. The first time I played it was at a friends house with my girlfriend present. I got a kick out of it and she got very upset over it (and at me for enjoying it). It's a GAME, people. If you confuse games with reality, there's something wrong. It's always a game no matter what. Just because I blow someone's head off in a game of SOF2 doesn't mean I'm going to go blow my neighbor's head off.
Video game violence has been around since the very early days. Upon launching MAME I notice the earliest game in my list is called "Gun Fight." Space Invaders shooting aliens...Doom involes shooting aliens. Difference? Graphics...concept? Eh, give or take the same thing.
Humans are violent by nature. That doesn't mean we HAVE to be, we just TEND to be. It's Plan B...when all else fails, get physical. It's personally not my Plan B, as I always use my words and brain as my offense, but some people are too stupid (yes, too stupid) to handle things with words and are forced to use physical violence. Defending yourself physically? Sure, if that's what it takes. I have no qualms with self-defense.
05/26/2002 (10:12 pm)
Random thoughts and observations:Sure, Japanese games may tend to be non-violent, but that doesn't say much about the culture. Watch or read about some of their game shows...many of which involve REAL HUMAN TORTURE. Sick, disgusting stuff...really disgusting.
Re: GTA3. The first time I played it was at a friends house with my girlfriend present. I got a kick out of it and she got very upset over it (and at me for enjoying it). It's a GAME, people. If you confuse games with reality, there's something wrong. It's always a game no matter what. Just because I blow someone's head off in a game of SOF2 doesn't mean I'm going to go blow my neighbor's head off.
Video game violence has been around since the very early days. Upon launching MAME I notice the earliest game in my list is called "Gun Fight." Space Invaders shooting aliens...Doom involes shooting aliens. Difference? Graphics...concept? Eh, give or take the same thing.
Humans are violent by nature. That doesn't mean we HAVE to be, we just TEND to be. It's Plan B...when all else fails, get physical. It's personally not my Plan B, as I always use my words and brain as my offense, but some people are too stupid (yes, too stupid) to handle things with words and are forced to use physical violence. Defending yourself physically? Sure, if that's what it takes. I have no qualms with self-defense.
#27
I've seen lots of adult videos, but the japanese stuff is actually disturbing.... (Ever notice how in DoA 2 & 3 you can get schoolgirl outfits for most the female characters?)
Same with anime, SOF2 looks silly compared to Battle Angel.. In particular a scene with a dog.
As for this debate, the truth is, there are so many grey areas that it's pointless. And while it is just a game most of the time, there are a lot of people who can't handle it. And they'll be right on the forums, saying that video games don't effect them. At the same time, we live in a socity that loves scapegoats. Which is almost why I'd love for the government to enforce the rateings system. Meaning only 18+ can buy violent games (Though they are having T rated FPS...) Meaning parenmts know what their kids are playng. so when said kid goes off, they can't blame us.
Do violent people play video games? Yes
Do Non-violent people play violent video games? Yes
Is anything ever gonna change? Probably not.
Options? More underground games to explore more Taboo subject matters. At the same time, games don't have to ALL be violent. (Pisses me off when people call nintendo a Kiddie console.)
But hey, I've got a few game ideas that will be banned in a few countries.
05/27/2002 (8:37 am)
okay, I will step down, I have been told... I forgot about the other japanese stuff....I've seen lots of adult videos, but the japanese stuff is actually disturbing.... (Ever notice how in DoA 2 & 3 you can get schoolgirl outfits for most the female characters?)
Same with anime, SOF2 looks silly compared to Battle Angel.. In particular a scene with a dog.
As for this debate, the truth is, there are so many grey areas that it's pointless. And while it is just a game most of the time, there are a lot of people who can't handle it. And they'll be right on the forums, saying that video games don't effect them. At the same time, we live in a socity that loves scapegoats. Which is almost why I'd love for the government to enforce the rateings system. Meaning only 18+ can buy violent games (Though they are having T rated FPS...) Meaning parenmts know what their kids are playng. so when said kid goes off, they can't blame us.
Do violent people play video games? Yes
Do Non-violent people play violent video games? Yes
Is anything ever gonna change? Probably not.
Options? More underground games to explore more Taboo subject matters. At the same time, games don't have to ALL be violent. (Pisses me off when people call nintendo a Kiddie console.)
But hey, I've got a few game ideas that will be banned in a few countries.
#28
Do violent people may play violent video games? YES
Do video games turn people violent? NO!!!! (not phisically violent at least)
People who loathe violence in every form would play a ultra violent video game by their own will and turned into rabid fans of it? NO!!
Does playing violent games COUNT as a way of violence because you are simulating violence? YES!!!
Let me remark that : YES!!!!!!
Is playing Violent video games bad and turning me evil?
NO!!!!!!
Im a bad person for enjoying violent video games? NO!!!
(you can be for a lot of other reasons, but not this one)
Does this mean I enjoy Violence at some level? YES!!! (just like 80% of the population)
Im a physically violent person for playing games? NO, (but you could be , one thing does not have nothing to do with the other.)
Does that mean if I commit a violent act (because Im a physically violent person for some reason or another) and someone finds out im a game fan, does one thing have to do with the another? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me remark that: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So if a news reporter, governor or legislator says that, they are just talking ... ? BULL-S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!T
So let me get this straight, if I play violent video games, in a violent manner it means I like violence at least simulated ? YES
But not physically? YES
Although I could ? YES
However if I were truly dangerous I could pretend or avoid to like this kind of games, so they wouldnt suspect of me? YES
And also I could play this kind of games for an alternate reason and not to enjoy the violence? YES (per example to jump on cars on GTA3)
But not If I play violently and WANTING to enjoy the violence? YES
Should I talk with someone about this? Only if you think you COULD exteriorize your violence due to stress or something. Otherwise you are a normal average guy venting out a bit of stress thats all. Playing sports is also a good way to vent out a bit and you do exercise as well.
So violent games are evil? No , they are just games, same goes for violent anime, movies , etc. They are just entertainment for people who enjoy high emotions and adrenaline rush and wont settle for the common.
But Im a little violent for watching or playing them? Hmm.. just a little bit nothing to worry about. Unless you do exteriorize violence in a physical for no good reason.
Should minors play violent games? NO minors (kids) often confuse fantasy and reality so it may be dangerous/traumatic for them to use that kind of entertainment.
So what the heck what this thread all about?
It was for us to realize that the connection between violent games and violent acts exists but not in the way the government and parent associations believe, an individual already accepts or does not reject violence to some level before playing, listening or watching a violence involved medium, the medium does not change him or her into something he/she originally was not.
Also to stablish that even though a person using this medium has some affinity to violence, this level of affinity doesnt neccesarily need to be high as a matter of fact for most people is really low and almost never reaches physical unwanted levels.
In addition we stablished that a person may have an affinity with violence extremely low, and enjoy this medium for a complete alternate reason. (like watching cute Japanese girls in manga style)
Like most investigations, there really isnt an application for this knowledge, except to prove what we already knew, people arent turned into criminals by games or media. people who are criminals will probably look for a criminal style of media. (although not all people who use this kind of media are criminals)
German Cons Tapia.
May the torque be with you...
05/27/2002 (10:34 am)
Hmmm...Do violent people may play violent video games? YES
Do video games turn people violent? NO!!!! (not phisically violent at least)
People who loathe violence in every form would play a ultra violent video game by their own will and turned into rabid fans of it? NO!!
Does playing violent games COUNT as a way of violence because you are simulating violence? YES!!!
Let me remark that : YES!!!!!!
Is playing Violent video games bad and turning me evil?
NO!!!!!!
Im a bad person for enjoying violent video games? NO!!!
(you can be for a lot of other reasons, but not this one)
Does this mean I enjoy Violence at some level? YES!!! (just like 80% of the population)
Im a physically violent person for playing games? NO, (but you could be , one thing does not have nothing to do with the other.)
Does that mean if I commit a violent act (because Im a physically violent person for some reason or another) and someone finds out im a game fan, does one thing have to do with the another? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me remark that: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So if a news reporter, governor or legislator says that, they are just talking ... ? BULL-S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!T
So let me get this straight, if I play violent video games, in a violent manner it means I like violence at least simulated ? YES
But not physically? YES
Although I could ? YES
However if I were truly dangerous I could pretend or avoid to like this kind of games, so they wouldnt suspect of me? YES
And also I could play this kind of games for an alternate reason and not to enjoy the violence? YES (per example to jump on cars on GTA3)
But not If I play violently and WANTING to enjoy the violence? YES
Should I talk with someone about this? Only if you think you COULD exteriorize your violence due to stress or something. Otherwise you are a normal average guy venting out a bit of stress thats all. Playing sports is also a good way to vent out a bit and you do exercise as well.
So violent games are evil? No , they are just games, same goes for violent anime, movies , etc. They are just entertainment for people who enjoy high emotions and adrenaline rush and wont settle for the common.
But Im a little violent for watching or playing them? Hmm.. just a little bit nothing to worry about. Unless you do exteriorize violence in a physical for no good reason.
Should minors play violent games? NO minors (kids) often confuse fantasy and reality so it may be dangerous/traumatic for them to use that kind of entertainment.
So what the heck what this thread all about?
It was for us to realize that the connection between violent games and violent acts exists but not in the way the government and parent associations believe, an individual already accepts or does not reject violence to some level before playing, listening or watching a violence involved medium, the medium does not change him or her into something he/she originally was not.
Also to stablish that even though a person using this medium has some affinity to violence, this level of affinity doesnt neccesarily need to be high as a matter of fact for most people is really low and almost never reaches physical unwanted levels.
In addition we stablished that a person may have an affinity with violence extremely low, and enjoy this medium for a complete alternate reason. (like watching cute Japanese girls in manga style)
Like most investigations, there really isnt an application for this knowledge, except to prove what we already knew, people arent turned into criminals by games or media. people who are criminals will probably look for a criminal style of media. (although not all people who use this kind of media are criminals)
German Cons Tapia.
May the torque be with you...
#29
How about hitler. Would he be too busy playing command & conquer to do any of the taking over the world crap?
05/27/2002 (10:37 am)
I wonder what game Jack the ripper would be playing if he was around in this day and age. (lets just forget that some people say the murders were by a number of people, not just jack)How about hitler. Would he be too busy playing command & conquer to do any of the taking over the world crap?
#30
05/27/2002 (11:01 am)
Jack the ripper? Probably Tetris
#31
LOL! That is a quote from the japanese anime:
Orgus 02 (mechs and different dimensions) or Bounty Dog (Mars, some guys girlfriend got killed by her evil Moon alien clone thing... The guys girlfriend got killed ion a fire and during it... a peice of glass landed straight through his arm, SLICE... lol then he gets a robotic arm and gets a bounty hunter team or cop team or something, they go to the moon and find the clone or something and blow it up at the end)
BTW: I'm not violent... but I LOVE VIOLENT, FUTURISTIC GAMES!
P.S. I agree with the Violent people play violent games Side.(IE: The guy who started the topic, I agree with you...)
P.P.S. WTF does P.P.S. mean!?
05/27/2002 (11:44 am)
Quote:
Violence is in our NATURE as human beings, to deny it is to deny our humanity.
LOL! That is a quote from the japanese anime:
Orgus 02 (mechs and different dimensions) or Bounty Dog (Mars, some guys girlfriend got killed by her evil Moon alien clone thing... The guys girlfriend got killed ion a fire and during it... a peice of glass landed straight through his arm, SLICE... lol then he gets a robotic arm and gets a bounty hunter team or cop team or something, they go to the moon and find the clone or something and blow it up at the end)
BTW: I'm not violent... but I LOVE VIOLENT, FUTURISTIC GAMES!
P.S. I agree with the Violent people play violent games Side.(IE: The guy who started the topic, I agree with you...)
P.P.S. WTF does P.P.S. mean!?
#32
05/28/2002 (7:28 am)
I read somewhere that they used violent games to "cure" a guy guy who was all to violent(ie, he wanted to hit people all the time, he fought several times a day, but mostly it was that sometimes just like that he went into rage) and it worked so he now is a normal guy.
#33
People will indulge in activities that they do not _normally_ get to indulge in on a regular basis, to such an extent that they will get sick of it and not want to do it for a while. This is a RELEASE of tension, stress and emotion that is not normally accepted in every day activities that is perfectly accepted in the context of the ritual.
These rituals were in ancient times lead by a shaman and most resembled what we know today as a "Rave".
But there are other forms of ecstacy rituals, such as me sitting down to play an RPG or other time consuming game from a friday evening until early monday morning before work over an entire weekend. After that I am tired of the game, tired of the PS2, tired of television, etc.
I won't touch my PS2 for weeks mainly because I don't have the time, but also because I got my fill of it in one big sitting.
now if you do this every night there is some kind of obsessive behavior that is probably not healthy. But every 3 - 4 months my wife will go out of town for the weekend, and I will INDULGE myself in some self-destructive behavior with some friends and it balances out all the other weeks of work.
Same with my motorcycle, 10 hours straight in the moutains on an R1 is not what most people would call enjoyable, but I only get to ride once every 6 weeks, sometimes less, I make damn well sure I get as much of it as possible when I get the chance. Once I strip the bike down and put it on the track, my riding will be less frequent but the experience will be MUCH more intense. 30 minutes averaging 130 mph on a road course == 100 hours on the street. After a full day of riding, I have usually had enough of the bike, not that I am not looking foward to my next ride, but it does make the wait bearable.
So VIOLENT video games are a ritual to some, recreation to others and a scape goat to even more people. Who is old enough to remember Dungeons and Dragons ( I mean the ORIGINAL ) not the Advanced or the crap they have now? The original was nothing more than a little 1/4 page yellow book.
If you remember that you remember all the STINK the religous zealots caused about how kids were killing themselves and each other from playing this GAME ( 3 in the entire US )! When in reality all those kids had histories of problems from physical abuse, to drug addictions or worse, D&D was a scapegoat of the un-informed, and an excuse for parents to not take responsiblity for their lack of parenting.
I love how the Colombine shootings were blamed on DOOM! Which was about 8 years old when the shooting happened, they did not even try and do research on any up-to-date games to blame it on, they just knew "Doom", that must be it, not the fact that these kids were ridiculed mercilessly by some of the "victums" and some of the teachers that were "victums" let them be physically and pychologically tortured by their classmates writing it off to "kids will be kids". I was waiting on them to blame it on D&D also, and pen-and-paper RPG has been dead in the US since about 1990.
Ever notice that those Colombine kids had rigged propane tanks as bombs, but there is no movement to BAN propane tanks or require licences and fees to own a propane tank, but the ant-gun movement jumped on it as a "reason" to ban guns.
Seems like the Germans recently proved that gun bans and gun control don't stop school shootings either, and that german kids are better shots to boot!
The thing is that the Germans CAN'T blame it on violent video games as they ban anything that "depicts weapons of mass destruction or realistic depictions of killing of people". They ban/edit lots of Hollywood movies and television because of gratuitous or excessive violence.
So the Germans have pretty much proven that Doom did not drive those kids to shoot up Colombine High School.
05/28/2002 (8:13 am)
there is also a psychological process at work that is commonly referred to as the "ecstacy ritual" [ which has nothing to do with the drug! ].People will indulge in activities that they do not _normally_ get to indulge in on a regular basis, to such an extent that they will get sick of it and not want to do it for a while. This is a RELEASE of tension, stress and emotion that is not normally accepted in every day activities that is perfectly accepted in the context of the ritual.
These rituals were in ancient times lead by a shaman and most resembled what we know today as a "Rave".
But there are other forms of ecstacy rituals, such as me sitting down to play an RPG or other time consuming game from a friday evening until early monday morning before work over an entire weekend. After that I am tired of the game, tired of the PS2, tired of television, etc.
I won't touch my PS2 for weeks mainly because I don't have the time, but also because I got my fill of it in one big sitting.
now if you do this every night there is some kind of obsessive behavior that is probably not healthy. But every 3 - 4 months my wife will go out of town for the weekend, and I will INDULGE myself in some self-destructive behavior with some friends and it balances out all the other weeks of work.
Same with my motorcycle, 10 hours straight in the moutains on an R1 is not what most people would call enjoyable, but I only get to ride once every 6 weeks, sometimes less, I make damn well sure I get as much of it as possible when I get the chance. Once I strip the bike down and put it on the track, my riding will be less frequent but the experience will be MUCH more intense. 30 minutes averaging 130 mph on a road course == 100 hours on the street. After a full day of riding, I have usually had enough of the bike, not that I am not looking foward to my next ride, but it does make the wait bearable.
So VIOLENT video games are a ritual to some, recreation to others and a scape goat to even more people. Who is old enough to remember Dungeons and Dragons ( I mean the ORIGINAL ) not the Advanced or the crap they have now? The original was nothing more than a little 1/4 page yellow book.
If you remember that you remember all the STINK the religous zealots caused about how kids were killing themselves and each other from playing this GAME ( 3 in the entire US )! When in reality all those kids had histories of problems from physical abuse, to drug addictions or worse, D&D was a scapegoat of the un-informed, and an excuse for parents to not take responsiblity for their lack of parenting.
I love how the Colombine shootings were blamed on DOOM! Which was about 8 years old when the shooting happened, they did not even try and do research on any up-to-date games to blame it on, they just knew "Doom", that must be it, not the fact that these kids were ridiculed mercilessly by some of the "victums" and some of the teachers that were "victums" let them be physically and pychologically tortured by their classmates writing it off to "kids will be kids". I was waiting on them to blame it on D&D also, and pen-and-paper RPG has been dead in the US since about 1990.
Ever notice that those Colombine kids had rigged propane tanks as bombs, but there is no movement to BAN propane tanks or require licences and fees to own a propane tank, but the ant-gun movement jumped on it as a "reason" to ban guns.
Seems like the Germans recently proved that gun bans and gun control don't stop school shootings either, and that german kids are better shots to boot!
The thing is that the Germans CAN'T blame it on violent video games as they ban anything that "depicts weapons of mass destruction or realistic depictions of killing of people". They ban/edit lots of Hollywood movies and television because of gratuitous or excessive violence.
So the Germans have pretty much proven that Doom did not drive those kids to shoot up Colombine High School.
#34
They picked on it because the killers were known to be DOOM afficianados and Eric Harris at least had released WADs for it.
No, I don't think id Software are responsible for any murders. I'm just pointing out that the press were delighted to find such a link.
I wonder what will happen with people who have trouble distinguishing video games from reality when they get their hands on things like this?
05/28/2002 (9:03 am)
Quote:
I love how the Colombine shootings were blamed on DOOM! Which was about 8 years old when the shooting happened, they did not even try and do research on any up-to-date games to blame it on
They picked on it because the killers were known to be DOOM afficianados and Eric Harris at least had released WADs for it.
No, I don't think id Software are responsible for any murders. I'm just pointing out that the press were delighted to find such a link.
I wonder what will happen with people who have trouble distinguishing video games from reality when they get their hands on things like this?
#35
You know, all of this is just old hat. Really old hat.
RE: America's Army. The whole reason for the game is because the Army doesn't know how to recruit people(Sorry in advance to all the Army dogs out there, but I'm a Devil Dog and tend to be hard on ya ;) They've been missing recruiting targets until 9/11 came up, and they responded by trying to look hip and cool. Thus, the "Army of One" commercials and America's Army-which actually follows more than just violence, but is trying to gear itself to be a roleplaying game to familiarize people with a career in the Army, NOT to turn them into violence crazed lunatics, for those who can see no other reason for an Army game than that. Pisses me off when people dig on what they have no experience in...
RE: Columbine... You want to know what makes me mad at game companies about this incident? Or any incident that results in a lawsuit against games for that matter? It's that the companies get so wrapped up in putting their tale between their legs that they don't tell it like it is: These incidents result from a combination of Bad Parenting and psychological problems that were not addressed(usually because of bad parenting, which more or less cause the psychological problems in the first place!).
Verant was going to be sued by the mother of a man who had killed himself because of EQ. But it comes out that he had a history of epilepsy and mental problems, and that is all of a sudden Verant's responsibility? These kinds of things are the debates we as a development community need to discuss(as far as how to defend yourself legally against them), not whether we're making people go out and kill because we put violence in our games. As a race, we've been killing each other for millions of years, well before music and games were made.
The human is an emotionally- and mentally-frail animal, and any environmental stimuli can make that animal react in any sort of way to the point of practical unpredictability. Game companies cannot predict the mental state of the players that use their games, and therefore cannot predict the effect their games will have. This is the responsibility of the individual and the parents that brought him/her up. To say otherwise will restrict the content of books, magazines, newspapers, television, movies, games, advertising, political thought and speech, individual speech, and all other forms of communication. But even with such a result there will be individuals that become mass-murderers and serial killers.
IOW, all this hand-wringing is getting us nowhere...
09/18/2002 (6:59 am)
::Winding up to beat the dead horse::You know, all of this is just old hat. Really old hat.
RE: America's Army. The whole reason for the game is because the Army doesn't know how to recruit people(Sorry in advance to all the Army dogs out there, but I'm a Devil Dog and tend to be hard on ya ;) They've been missing recruiting targets until 9/11 came up, and they responded by trying to look hip and cool. Thus, the "Army of One" commercials and America's Army-which actually follows more than just violence, but is trying to gear itself to be a roleplaying game to familiarize people with a career in the Army, NOT to turn them into violence crazed lunatics, for those who can see no other reason for an Army game than that. Pisses me off when people dig on what they have no experience in...
RE: Columbine... You want to know what makes me mad at game companies about this incident? Or any incident that results in a lawsuit against games for that matter? It's that the companies get so wrapped up in putting their tale between their legs that they don't tell it like it is: These incidents result from a combination of Bad Parenting and psychological problems that were not addressed(usually because of bad parenting, which more or less cause the psychological problems in the first place!).
Verant was going to be sued by the mother of a man who had killed himself because of EQ. But it comes out that he had a history of epilepsy and mental problems, and that is all of a sudden Verant's responsibility? These kinds of things are the debates we as a development community need to discuss(as far as how to defend yourself legally against them), not whether we're making people go out and kill because we put violence in our games. As a race, we've been killing each other for millions of years, well before music and games were made.
The human is an emotionally- and mentally-frail animal, and any environmental stimuli can make that animal react in any sort of way to the point of practical unpredictability. Game companies cannot predict the mental state of the players that use their games, and therefore cannot predict the effect their games will have. This is the responsibility of the individual and the parents that brought him/her up. To say otherwise will restrict the content of books, magazines, newspapers, television, movies, games, advertising, political thought and speech, individual speech, and all other forms of communication. But even with such a result there will be individuals that become mass-murderers and serial killers.
IOW, all this hand-wringing is getting us nowhere...
#37
Simply enough, I play the most violent games I can find, RPG's, and Strategy games. I think that violence in real life is the result of a disturbed mind. The Al Queda (or however you spell it) is a bunch of very sick, twisted individuals, who were taught that violence is proper. I was never taught that violence is proper, therefor, I don't do it. But why do I do it in video games?
Read carefully now, because not everyone might understand this:
VIDEO GAMES ARE FAKE. THEY ARE NOT REAL.
If I blow up someone in a video game, they just respawn and I do it again. Yay! But in real life? How could one living creature do that to another living creature? That is disgusting and disturbing. And to think that people who love violent games won't play RPG's and strategy games? Hell, I personally miss all the great adventure titles! Willy Beamish, Jeff Tunnel's masterpiece (in my opinion) is still one of my favorite games, along with the Final Fantasy Series, the SimCity series, and Quake 3: Arena!!!
In other words, (aside from letting this topic be, as it is now a dead horse reanimated to be nuked again), put some more colors in your life than white and black, look out of the box, and look into the real world. Only then can you make successful games and make it in the indsutry. Closed minds never cut it.
*Puts bat away, leaves horse be* There, my two cents. Chew on it as you will, truth is truth and life is life. Live it as you will.
09/18/2002 (9:47 am)
*Grabs a stick for some beating and puts in his own 2 cents*Simply enough, I play the most violent games I can find, RPG's, and Strategy games. I think that violence in real life is the result of a disturbed mind. The Al Queda (or however you spell it) is a bunch of very sick, twisted individuals, who were taught that violence is proper. I was never taught that violence is proper, therefor, I don't do it. But why do I do it in video games?
Read carefully now, because not everyone might understand this:
VIDEO GAMES ARE FAKE. THEY ARE NOT REAL.
If I blow up someone in a video game, they just respawn and I do it again. Yay! But in real life? How could one living creature do that to another living creature? That is disgusting and disturbing. And to think that people who love violent games won't play RPG's and strategy games? Hell, I personally miss all the great adventure titles! Willy Beamish, Jeff Tunnel's masterpiece (in my opinion) is still one of my favorite games, along with the Final Fantasy Series, the SimCity series, and Quake 3: Arena!!!
In other words, (aside from letting this topic be, as it is now a dead horse reanimated to be nuked again), put some more colors in your life than white and black, look out of the box, and look into the real world. Only then can you make successful games and make it in the indsutry. Closed minds never cut it.
*Puts bat away, leaves horse be* There, my two cents. Chew on it as you will, truth is truth and life is life. Live it as you will.
#38
Gladly, the courts threw it out. But what's funny is that nintendo was in the list of companies sued. LOL! This proves my point that these idiots are just looking for something to blame, whether or not it actually is at fault. I don't recall hearing testimony of the columbine kids jumping on the heads of their peers in order to kill them....I think they used guns...The only people that believe that games CAUSE violence are ignorant and selfish cuz they are trying to put a price on thier children's heads. What is their child worth? 1 million? 2 million? When will they no longer grieve? When they own their own home, car and yacht? Those parents make me almost as sick as the kids that shot up that school.
09/18/2002 (10:14 am)
OMG. You went and did it. You started it. You started THE discussion. I'm gonna fight not to respond (wait..this is a response...DOH!). Did anyone hear 'bout how columbine victims families' sued numerous game companies for the loss of their children. Can you belive this HORSE SHI...
#39
Amen.
And this is my last post in this topic, really! (Damn political issues... it's like a moth to a light when they come up...)
09/18/2002 (11:42 am)
*Applauds Jeremy*Amen.
And this is my last post in this topic, really! (Damn political issues... it's like a moth to a light when they come up...)
#40
It must take an incredibly weak minded person to not be able to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Hell I remember being six years old and watching violent movies. I grew up with stuff like that, who didn't? Whatever the "experts" say about children being violent from what they watch is total BS. I was a completely twisted child. I made fake body parts (blood, gore and everything) and would throw them out into the street. I stuck my tongue on 9 volt batterys, and fried ants with magnifying glasses. Every kid has done this kind of stuff. Does that mean he is violent? I am not a violent person. I grew up in the country with guns everywhere. I have fired every different type of pistol or rifle there is. The only time I ever killed anything out of pure meanness was when I was 9. I killed a bird with a BB gun, and felt like crap about it ever since (not to say I would feel like crap for slaughtering an animal for food).
Things have NOT gotten worse through the years. People would like you to THINK that, but mostly only to use you for their own selfish needs and wants("its a dangerous place out there, THATS why you need Roll-aids"(fnord)). If anything the world has become a much friendlier place throughout the years. People say that crime is worse than ever before. Maybe, but you must also consider that there are a LOT more laws than ever before as well (therefore more crime). When people say that, they usually fail to mention that there are more people in the world than ever before as well, and they usually don't think about the fact that about 9% of American citizens are currently in jail (a disease must infect 3% of the population to be considered an epidemic, hmmm). The main difference between now and then is the fact that now you hear about it no matter where it happens.
If a child is going to be violent, he will be violent regardless of what he watches, reads or hears. People are just like that. Whether or not they play violent games or watch violent movies is a moot point, because humans are genetically prone to violence.
I consider people who can laugh at sick/scary things superior to those who cannot do so. I think blood and gore in games is hilarious. People who get sick from a video game, or angry or offended at gore in a game are one of those who have problems seperating fantasy and reality, and probably should stay away from it. I for one don't need those weak minded people pushing their weak-minded belief system off on me and telling me what I SHOULD think. No fucking thank you, I have a mind of my own, not a pliant mind full of propaganda and brainwashing like theirs.
If violence is so bad then why do we thrive off it? There is always a war going on somewhere in the world at any given time(you might bitch and complain when the US goes to war, but you dont mind living off the nice economical results huh?). Many sports are violent, yet a lot of people FORCE sports on their kids. What about hunting? Isnt that violent? Would you rather starve to death than to kill an animal for food? Would you just stand there while some guy was beating you in the face? Even the Holy Bible is chock full of violence. Oh my, better keep your kids from reading the holy word of God! Its got violence and sex in there! Oh no, war is violent, let's completely get rid of our military! It's funny people who spout anti-violence doctrine left and right and then turn around and talk about how the Giants did last weekend. We all have a propensity toward violence, just some people might need to be pushed farther than others.
Get off it people. I am sick to death of hearing about how damned politically correct everything should be. Violence is a fact of life, and it always will be. Its a violent universe we live in, death is a fact of life and vise versa. If you want to live in smurf-land just lock yourself in a room for the rest of your(short) life and leave the rest of us alone.
"America spends 50% more incarcerating 1.2 million non-violent offenders than the entire $16.6 billion the federal government is currently spending on welfare programs that serve 8.5 million people"
Ted Says:
"You know, all of this is just old hat. Really old hat. "
As old as history itself.
Case: Burningrose takes 2 completely different examples that are so far from an kind of scientific thinking whatsoever and makes a broad general (and bold I might add) statement that pretty much sums up the entire history of humanity.
Conclusion: Burningrose is a totally annoying moron who should probably just keep his idiotic ideas to himself instead of posting them here for me to flame. Are you on pot, man? Smoking those marijuana cigarettes? ENJOYING VIOLENT GAMES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VIOLENT BEHAVIOR! If it did then everybody in the freaking world would be playing them.
09/18/2002 (1:43 pm)
Who the hell cares about the psychology behind it? Sex and violence will always sell. It must take an incredibly weak minded person to not be able to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Hell I remember being six years old and watching violent movies. I grew up with stuff like that, who didn't? Whatever the "experts" say about children being violent from what they watch is total BS. I was a completely twisted child. I made fake body parts (blood, gore and everything) and would throw them out into the street. I stuck my tongue on 9 volt batterys, and fried ants with magnifying glasses. Every kid has done this kind of stuff. Does that mean he is violent? I am not a violent person. I grew up in the country with guns everywhere. I have fired every different type of pistol or rifle there is. The only time I ever killed anything out of pure meanness was when I was 9. I killed a bird with a BB gun, and felt like crap about it ever since (not to say I would feel like crap for slaughtering an animal for food).
Things have NOT gotten worse through the years. People would like you to THINK that, but mostly only to use you for their own selfish needs and wants("its a dangerous place out there, THATS why you need Roll-aids"(fnord)). If anything the world has become a much friendlier place throughout the years. People say that crime is worse than ever before. Maybe, but you must also consider that there are a LOT more laws than ever before as well (therefore more crime). When people say that, they usually fail to mention that there are more people in the world than ever before as well, and they usually don't think about the fact that about 9% of American citizens are currently in jail (a disease must infect 3% of the population to be considered an epidemic, hmmm). The main difference between now and then is the fact that now you hear about it no matter where it happens.
If a child is going to be violent, he will be violent regardless of what he watches, reads or hears. People are just like that. Whether or not they play violent games or watch violent movies is a moot point, because humans are genetically prone to violence.
I consider people who can laugh at sick/scary things superior to those who cannot do so. I think blood and gore in games is hilarious. People who get sick from a video game, or angry or offended at gore in a game are one of those who have problems seperating fantasy and reality, and probably should stay away from it. I for one don't need those weak minded people pushing their weak-minded belief system off on me and telling me what I SHOULD think. No fucking thank you, I have a mind of my own, not a pliant mind full of propaganda and brainwashing like theirs.
If violence is so bad then why do we thrive off it? There is always a war going on somewhere in the world at any given time(you might bitch and complain when the US goes to war, but you dont mind living off the nice economical results huh?). Many sports are violent, yet a lot of people FORCE sports on their kids. What about hunting? Isnt that violent? Would you rather starve to death than to kill an animal for food? Would you just stand there while some guy was beating you in the face? Even the Holy Bible is chock full of violence. Oh my, better keep your kids from reading the holy word of God! Its got violence and sex in there! Oh no, war is violent, let's completely get rid of our military! It's funny people who spout anti-violence doctrine left and right and then turn around and talk about how the Giants did last weekend. We all have a propensity toward violence, just some people might need to be pushed farther than others.
Get off it people. I am sick to death of hearing about how damned politically correct everything should be. Violence is a fact of life, and it always will be. Its a violent universe we live in, death is a fact of life and vise versa. If you want to live in smurf-land just lock yourself in a room for the rest of your(short) life and leave the rest of us alone.
"America spends 50% more incarcerating 1.2 million non-violent offenders than the entire $16.6 billion the federal government is currently spending on welfare programs that serve 8.5 million people"
Ted Says:
"You know, all of this is just old hat. Really old hat. "
As old as history itself.
Case: Burningrose takes 2 completely different examples that are so far from an kind of scientific thinking whatsoever and makes a broad general (and bold I might add) statement that pretty much sums up the entire history of humanity.
Conclusion: Burningrose is a totally annoying moron who should probably just keep his idiotic ideas to himself instead of posting them here for me to flame. Are you on pot, man? Smoking those marijuana cigarettes? ENJOYING VIOLENT GAMES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VIOLENT BEHAVIOR! If it did then everybody in the freaking world would be playing them.
Torque Owner MK
Anyway, despite of playing these games, I assure you I am not a violent person. Honest. I don't even own a gun, not that we're allowed to do that in the UK. But, even if we were, I wouldn't get one. I've never been involved in a fight. Well, not recently anyway.
I am a nice guy. really... you do believe me, dont you?
Oh, that smell. Nooo... its not rotten flesh. Thats always been there.