Incorrect "Save" behavior
by Benjamin Schneider · in Artist Corner · 10/30/2006 (7:54 pm) · 6 replies
I'm new to the beta list so if this isn't the proper place to post topics like this, please advise. I'm not sure if the development team would consider these issues bugs or design decisions. If they're considered bugs, let me know and I'll file with mantis as soon as my account is updated.
The save behavior doesn't follow standard practices when saving files. Note, I use the term document. For Constructor, I'm referring to the scene.
In a typical application...
If the user selects "Save" from the file menu for a document that has already been saved to file, that document's file will be updated to reflect the changes but the file will be saved with the same name and in the same location as the original file.
If the "Save As" dialog has been called and the user selects a filename and location that already exists, the user will be notified that the file already exists and ask if they want to replace the file or to cancel the operation.
In Constructor...
If the user selects "Save" from the file menu for a document that has already been saved to file, a new file with the same name is saved to the Constructor folder. The original file is not updated and the recent scenes menu shows both versions (with both paths).
If the "Save As" dialog has been called and the user selects a filename and location that already exists, the file will be overwritten with no warning.
In addition, the check for save code is incomplete.
In other applications that only support having one document open at one time, If you've got a document open that has been modified, and then go to the file menu and select New, Open or Open Recent, the application will warn you by presenting a dialog that gives you three options: Save, Don't Save and Cancel. If you press Save, the file will be updated if it already existed or you'll be presented with a Save As dialog if it had never been saved at all. After saving, the document will close. If you press Don't Save, the file will close without saving. If you press Cancel, the new/open operation will be aborted.
In Constructor, If you've got a document open that has been modified...
...and then go to the file menu and select New or Open, Constructor will not check if the current document needs saved and will simply create a new document - thus, you lose all of your changes.
... and then go to the file menu to select Open Recent, Constructor disables all entries in the list. While it's good to disallow someone from losing their work, the user isn't told why they can't select any recent scenes.
In other applications, when you close a document that has been modified, the application warns you by presenting a dialog that gives you three options: Save, Don't Save and Cancel. If you press Save, the file will be updated if it already existed or you'll be presented with a Save As dialog if it had never been saved at all. After saving, the document will close. If you press Don't Save, the file will close without saving. If you press Cancel, the close operation will be aborted.
In Constructor, when you close a document that has been modified since the last save, Constructor warns you with a dialog but the dialog only provides two options. If you press Ok, the document will close without saving. If you press Cancel, the close operation will appear to have been aborted, but all content in all viewports will be gone even though the titlebar says you still have the same document open.
This last one is just a Mac specific feature request of sorts...
On Mac OS X, there a small dot can be placed in the close control in a document window that represents the document has been modified. This is pretty simple to implement. It just takes a call to SetWindowModified. You can then call this function (passing false) when the user saves the document. It's quite nice to let the user know when their document has been modified.
OSStatus SetWindowModified (WindowRef window, Boolean modified);
BTW, I'm using beta 13 for Mac.
The save behavior doesn't follow standard practices when saving files. Note, I use the term document. For Constructor, I'm referring to the scene.
In a typical application...
If the user selects "Save" from the file menu for a document that has already been saved to file, that document's file will be updated to reflect the changes but the file will be saved with the same name and in the same location as the original file.
If the "Save As" dialog has been called and the user selects a filename and location that already exists, the user will be notified that the file already exists and ask if they want to replace the file or to cancel the operation.
In Constructor...
If the user selects "Save" from the file menu for a document that has already been saved to file, a new file with the same name is saved to the Constructor folder. The original file is not updated and the recent scenes menu shows both versions (with both paths).
If the "Save As" dialog has been called and the user selects a filename and location that already exists, the file will be overwritten with no warning.
In addition, the check for save code is incomplete.
In other applications that only support having one document open at one time, If you've got a document open that has been modified, and then go to the file menu and select New, Open or Open Recent, the application will warn you by presenting a dialog that gives you three options: Save, Don't Save and Cancel. If you press Save, the file will be updated if it already existed or you'll be presented with a Save As dialog if it had never been saved at all. After saving, the document will close. If you press Don't Save, the file will close without saving. If you press Cancel, the new/open operation will be aborted.
In Constructor, If you've got a document open that has been modified...
...and then go to the file menu and select New or Open, Constructor will not check if the current document needs saved and will simply create a new document - thus, you lose all of your changes.
... and then go to the file menu to select Open Recent, Constructor disables all entries in the list. While it's good to disallow someone from losing their work, the user isn't told why they can't select any recent scenes.
In other applications, when you close a document that has been modified, the application warns you by presenting a dialog that gives you three options: Save, Don't Save and Cancel. If you press Save, the file will be updated if it already existed or you'll be presented with a Save As dialog if it had never been saved at all. After saving, the document will close. If you press Don't Save, the file will close without saving. If you press Cancel, the close operation will be aborted.
In Constructor, when you close a document that has been modified since the last save, Constructor warns you with a dialog but the dialog only provides two options. If you press Ok, the document will close without saving. If you press Cancel, the close operation will appear to have been aborted, but all content in all viewports will be gone even though the titlebar says you still have the same document open.
This last one is just a Mac specific feature request of sorts...
On Mac OS X, there a small dot can be placed in the close control in a document window that represents the document has been modified. This is pretty simple to implement. It just takes a call to SetWindowModified. You can then call this function (passing false) when the user saves the document. It's quite nice to let the user know when their document has been modified.
OSStatus SetWindowModified (WindowRef window, Boolean modified);
BTW, I'm using beta 13 for Mac.
#2
I would agree with you on those parts... saving and all that.. it isnt as we have come to know it.. every editing application has this "default" window when saving.. or exiting
And also about having multible scenes opened at once... i didn't even know that
and for me.. it doesn't seem to good.. meaning i doubt that i would work on many different scenes at once
I have used Valve hammer editor for years and there you only have one scene opened at the time..(i think so... well if the feature is there.. i have NEVER used it) and thats enough for me... dunno about you guys
Regards
10/31/2006 (12:48 pm)
Nice reportings :)I would agree with you on those parts... saving and all that.. it isnt as we have come to know it.. every editing application has this "default" window when saving.. or exiting
And also about having multible scenes opened at once... i didn't even know that
and for me.. it doesn't seem to good.. meaning i doubt that i would work on many different scenes at once
I have used Valve hammer editor for years and there you only have one scene opened at the time..(i think so... well if the feature is there.. i have NEVER used it) and thats enough for me... dunno about you guys
Regards
#3
10/31/2006 (11:42 pm)
Hammer has always supported multiple scenes.
#4
looking forward to test the upcoming beta :)
Regards
11/01/2006 (3:53 am)
Ok.. heh.. but as said i have NEVER used it.. didnt even know it was there (or maybe i did.. well its over 1 year last time i used it)looking forward to test the upcoming beta :)
Regards
#5
11/02/2006 (10:08 pm)
The more I get used to Constructor, the more I can understand why you allow multiple scenes to be open. For example, you might want to build part of your interior in one scene and another part in another scene, then paste brushes from one scene to another. I still think doing this via multiple scene windows would be more intuitive but I imagine people can get used to it once they've used Constructor for a while.
#6
what i would guess that maybe it can be helpfull if you want to have more control over these different parts... and maybe use some parts in many scenes, then you just open the wanted "part" scene and copy it.
But is copying parts from one scene to another possible?
but whatever.. i guess there are people out there that do really use multible scenes
Regards
11/03/2006 (4:30 am)
Yes maybe... but what would be the point of doing different brushes in multible scenes? i mean whats your opinion on thatwhat i would guess that maybe it can be helpfull if you want to have more control over these different parts... and maybe use some parts in many scenes, then you just open the wanted "part" scene and copy it.
But is copying parts from one scene to another possible?
but whatever.. i guess there are people out there that do really use multible scenes
Regards
Torque Owner Benjamin Schneider