Copyright Law
by Griffin Milsap · in General Discussion · 10/23/2006 (8:01 pm) · 16 replies
Hey, I'm thinking about adding a feature to my game, but I'm not sure if it infringes on copyright law.
The idea goes something like this.
The game itself is based around music. The game generates a level and a racetrack based on a piece of music, then the entire level jumps with the beat of the music and the game functions similarly to a rhythm game. (Some very nifty programming on my part).
I have it so a user can input any music file into the game, and it generates the level for single player play.
Single play is good and all, but I would also like network play. The user could choose a few mp3's from their playlist and create a game on the master server. The mp3 files would be temporarily uploaded to the master server, and temporarily streamed to any other player who wants to play the game. Once the game was concluded, the mp3s would be deleted from the master server, and the only person with a copy of the music used would be the person who created the network game.
Now I know I used Mp3 as an example, but ogg, wav, wma, and other audio formats are supported by the current program too.
Excluding file format liscencing fees, the copyright law is fuzzy in this area.
Is it legal for person one to stream music to person two at person one's discretion, so long as no actual copying of the music occured, and person one remains the sole person with a copy of the music at the end? Or does this infringe on copyright law.
I'm researching the issue now, but I can't find anything which pertains to my question. An answer, or atleast a pointer in the right direction would be appreciated.
-Griff
The idea goes something like this.
The game itself is based around music. The game generates a level and a racetrack based on a piece of music, then the entire level jumps with the beat of the music and the game functions similarly to a rhythm game. (Some very nifty programming on my part).
I have it so a user can input any music file into the game, and it generates the level for single player play.
Single play is good and all, but I would also like network play. The user could choose a few mp3's from their playlist and create a game on the master server. The mp3 files would be temporarily uploaded to the master server, and temporarily streamed to any other player who wants to play the game. Once the game was concluded, the mp3s would be deleted from the master server, and the only person with a copy of the music used would be the person who created the network game.
Now I know I used Mp3 as an example, but ogg, wav, wma, and other audio formats are supported by the current program too.
Excluding file format liscencing fees, the copyright law is fuzzy in this area.
Is it legal for person one to stream music to person two at person one's discretion, so long as no actual copying of the music occured, and person one remains the sole person with a copy of the music at the end? Or does this infringe on copyright law.
I'm researching the issue now, but I can't find anything which pertains to my question. An answer, or atleast a pointer in the right direction would be appreciated.
-Griff
About the author
#2
I agree with the advice that you've given Griffin in regards to the setup he has proposed for the network streaming of audio. I do have a question about:
Wouldn't Microsoft be in violation of this with Media Players "Guide" that if you search, then stream then "save as" it will let you save a copy of the wma, mp3 or wav file? (Noting that if I was the RIAA I probably wouldn't want to take Microsoft on, since everyone else -- including the U.S. Federal Gov. -- has done so well against them...) Or would all of this be covered under the broadcast fees, and not considered any more than internet equivalent of someone recording fm radio and the radio station is not responsible for its dissemination?
Just a curiosity question.
10/23/2006 (9:40 pm)
@Jon,I agree with the advice that you've given Griffin in regards to the setup he has proposed for the network streaming of audio. I do have a question about:
Quote:In addition you will not be able to control audio capturing and therefore would be responsible as the catalyst that enables users to obtain music through non legal means.
Wouldn't Microsoft be in violation of this with Media Players "Guide" that if you search, then stream then "save as" it will let you save a copy of the wma, mp3 or wav file? (Noting that if I was the RIAA I probably wouldn't want to take Microsoft on, since everyone else -- including the U.S. Federal Gov. -- has done so well against them...) Or would all of this be covered under the broadcast fees, and not considered any more than internet equivalent of someone recording fm radio and the radio station is not responsible for its dissemination?
Just a curiosity question.
#3
Kinda sounds like fair use to me, but then again, I don't know.
-Griff
I read about the broadcasting fees though, and that appears to be non avoidable. If thats the case, I really don't have 20,000 to spend on a liscence.
10/24/2006 (7:43 pm)
The way I think of it, is that it is no different from player one inviting player two over to his house to listen to a song, then sending player two back home again. Kinda sounds like fair use to me, but then again, I don't know.
-Griff
I read about the broadcasting fees though, and that appears to be non avoidable. If thats the case, I really don't have 20,000 to spend on a liscence.
#5
@Griff-The difference is the senario describe is not for personal use. I don't know what your plans are for the game, but if it is for profit then it will be catagorized as commercial use. Regardless of who provides the music, the music becomes part of the game. You may want to consult an entertainment lawyer, they would know better. I am just a musician, and I have had my stuff used without my permission. I went after the parties who used my stuff and received a lot of money. I would do your homework and consult an attorney, I would hate for you to get screwed after you create a kick butt game.
10/24/2006 (8:31 pm)
@Alan-you are correct about the lawsuits and MS, the difference is $$ and the lawyers they can afford. You would be covered by the broadcasting license and the responsibility would then be on the end-user...kind of like the radio.@Griff-The difference is the senario describe is not for personal use. I don't know what your plans are for the game, but if it is for profit then it will be catagorized as commercial use. Regardless of who provides the music, the music becomes part of the game. You may want to consult an entertainment lawyer, they would know better. I am just a musician, and I have had my stuff used without my permission. I went after the parties who used my stuff and received a lot of money. I would do your homework and consult an attorney, I would hate for you to get screwed after you create a kick butt game.
#6
- Team up with an online indie music distributor or two. Use their music, with low-fi versions of the music that can be used in your game and hi-fi versions available for quick and easy download if desired that can also be used in your game. Source of income for both of you perhaps.
- Find indie musicians yourself and let them know about this cool new music game you're making. Some of them would love to be a part of it and they'd let you license their music. Point players to their sites. Only allow their music to be played in your game. I think you could get a pretty big roster of some very cool music.
- Make it band-specific, sort of adver-gaming. Or allow bands to "skin" the game themselves and use it as a tool for their own marketing. Make a flash version that bands can easily put on their website. There could be dozens of bands out there willing to plunk down $50-100 to be able to use something cool like that. Or not, maybe a silly idea.
Anyway, the RIAA would like people to believe that the only music out there is what they give us, expensively-produced mass-market ear candy. That's not the case. I think you have a cool opportunity here to spread the word about music that's just as good (if not better), but maybe not as well known. I'd probably steer clear of letting players use any ol' music. That's a legal minefield. But I think you can team up with musicians or indie companies and come up with a sweet roster of music that lets everybody win.
Like Jon said, at some point no matter which route you take it would be smart to talk to a lawyer. Draw up the license documents, etc.
10/24/2006 (11:04 pm)
There's definitely reason to be concerned about using other people's music in your game. But don't let the legal bullies of the RIAA change the game you're making. Where they would like you to see only problems, I think you'll actually be able to find lots of cool opportunities. Some examples:- Team up with an online indie music distributor or two. Use their music, with low-fi versions of the music that can be used in your game and hi-fi versions available for quick and easy download if desired that can also be used in your game. Source of income for both of you perhaps.
- Find indie musicians yourself and let them know about this cool new music game you're making. Some of them would love to be a part of it and they'd let you license their music. Point players to their sites. Only allow their music to be played in your game. I think you could get a pretty big roster of some very cool music.
- Make it band-specific, sort of adver-gaming. Or allow bands to "skin" the game themselves and use it as a tool for their own marketing. Make a flash version that bands can easily put on their website. There could be dozens of bands out there willing to plunk down $50-100 to be able to use something cool like that. Or not, maybe a silly idea.
Anyway, the RIAA would like people to believe that the only music out there is what they give us, expensively-produced mass-market ear candy. That's not the case. I think you have a cool opportunity here to spread the word about music that's just as good (if not better), but maybe not as well known. I'd probably steer clear of letting players use any ol' music. That's a legal minefield. But I think you can team up with musicians or indie companies and come up with a sweet roster of music that lets everybody win.
Like Jon said, at some point no matter which route you take it would be smart to talk to a lawyer. Draw up the license documents, etc.
#7
If Vib-ribbon was able to do it, why can't I?
-Griff
10/25/2006 (10:54 pm)
Well, it apperars that network use is out... But Singleplayer still looks good.If Vib-ribbon was able to do it, why can't I?
-Griff
#8
10/26/2006 (7:31 am)
Because Vib used licensed music *and* had a legal team to make sure that they shifted the liability to the user rather than the software (which is the key issue here...make sure your legal t's are crossed and i's dotted to remove liability from yourself). It isn't even about "commercial" use. It is about means of distribution. If you make sure that your application is not a means of distribution (which really means in legalese, not necessarily in the way it functions or can be used for illicit purposes by the consumer), then you should be okay. Of course, any music you distribute with the game itself MUST be licensed.
#9
The game will be distributed commercially, although network play shall be limited to liscenced music. Theres plenty of indie bands and DJ's who, I'm sure, would sell me rights for pretty cheap.
However, I will keep the "Your own music feature" only for singleplay. Afterall, how does it function any differently from a music player.
As my dad always said, as you become more and more successful, more and more people will try to take it away. I really doubt my game will hit the big time (IF I ever decide its ever ready for release), though if it does, my most likely critic will probably be the RIAA. If thats the case, I should have accumulated enough from the game to be able to defend myself.
In either case... What can they do to me anyway? I'm still a minor :P.
-Griff
10/26/2006 (8:29 am)
Alright. I think I have this all figured out now. The game will be distributed commercially, although network play shall be limited to liscenced music. Theres plenty of indie bands and DJ's who, I'm sure, would sell me rights for pretty cheap.
However, I will keep the "Your own music feature" only for singleplay. Afterall, how does it function any differently from a music player.
As my dad always said, as you become more and more successful, more and more people will try to take it away. I really doubt my game will hit the big time (IF I ever decide its ever ready for release), though if it does, my most likely critic will probably be the RIAA. If thats the case, I should have accumulated enough from the game to be able to defend myself.
In either case... What can they do to me anyway? I'm still a minor :P.
-Griff
#10
10/26/2006 (8:34 am)
They can hold your parents/guardians legally responsible for your actions.
#11
-Griff
10/26/2006 (12:48 pm)
What about stepmania though. Surely, by your logic, the creators must have had their homes taken away by the RIAA. Is the only reason they don't get sued because they distribute their product free? If thats the case, I can make mine free...-Griff
#12
10/26/2006 (1:05 pm)
No. It is most likely because the copyright parties involved did not see it as litigiously viable in terms of dollars to make them stop. You may not be either, but you have to know the chance you are taking. It is not a commercial/non-commercial thing, though it jumps their shut-down decision-making power up several notches if you are making money and they are not. Free internet broadcasting, free file-sharing programs and services, etc have been killed not because they were making money, but because they were distributing copyrighted information without the proper legal measures in-place to point the finger at the people using their product/service rather than the product/service itself being liable.
#13
Now, broadcasting the music is a problem, and I don't see how that could work unless you use only game-supplied tracks, either made by yourself or licensed for your game.
But there is another problem, specific to MP3 playback: there are licensing fees for games capable of playing MP3 files. I am not sure if freely distributed games are supposed to pay for it, you should check the MP3 licensing page for more information, but if money is flowing somewhere, it's certain as death you need to pay something to Thomson & friends.
10/26/2006 (1:54 pm)
I don't think allowing your game to play audio files from the user's computer violates copyright. It's a player. By that logic, Winamp's visualizations would violate copyright too.Now, broadcasting the music is a problem, and I don't see how that could work unless you use only game-supplied tracks, either made by yourself or licensed for your game.
But there is another problem, specific to MP3 playback: there are licensing fees for games capable of playing MP3 files. I am not sure if freely distributed games are supposed to pay for it, you should check the MP3 licensing page for more information, but if money is flowing somewhere, it's certain as death you need to pay something to Thomson & friends.
#14
I know of many games where you can select an option to play your own music while you play the game (counter-strike) and they aren't getting sued. It doesn't matter how big your company is, if the record companies feel you are infringing, you'll get sued. They don't look at big companies and say "they got the money and lawyers, we better not try."
As long as you don't do anything except "stream" the music then I'd be you were fine. I'd consult a copyright/entertainment laywer before doing anything however.
10/26/2006 (2:02 pm)
This doesn't all sit well with me. I know quite a bit about copyright laws, but haven't touched on music so to speak. Are you playing an entire song over the course of the track or just parts of the song? Do you have any checks to the legality of the music they are "loading" into the game?I know of many games where you can select an option to play your own music while you play the game (counter-strike) and they aren't getting sued. It doesn't matter how big your company is, if the record companies feel you are infringing, you'll get sued. They don't look at big companies and say "they got the money and lawyers, we better not try."
As long as you don't do anything except "stream" the music then I'd be you were fine. I'd consult a copyright/entertainment laywer before doing anything however.
#15
For example, if someone uploads a copy of 3DSMax to an FTP server, discreet sues the person who did the uploading, not the person who made the FTP client.
PS as Jonathan says, consult a real lawyer tho before investing too much work.
10/26/2006 (2:24 pm)
One thing to consider is that if you give the user the option to load in an MP3 file off their disk and/or stream that file to friends, you can construct the EULA such that the responsibility to only stream legal material rests on the user, not on the app.For example, if someone uploads a copy of 3DSMax to an FTP server, discreet sues the person who did the uploading, not the person who made the FTP client.
PS as Jonathan says, consult a real lawyer tho before investing too much work.
#16
As for network streaming, I've decided against it after some very deep research. Its just too risky. Single player should be fine. Truth be told though; I would only need to add five new lines of code (literally) to enable network streaming. (I love FMOD).
I plan to pay format liscencing fees. Thats a given.
Edit: Reading up on Mp3 liscencing, no liscence fees are due if the game distributes less than 5000 copies.
WOO!
-Griff
10/26/2006 (7:16 pm)
Alright. Those were the responses I was looking for.As for network streaming, I've decided against it after some very deep research. Its just too risky. Single player should be fine. Truth be told though; I would only need to add five new lines of code (literally) to enable network streaming. (I love FMOD).
I plan to pay format liscencing fees. Thats a given.
Edit: Reading up on Mp3 liscencing, no liscence fees are due if the game distributes less than 5000 copies.
WOO!
-Griff
Torque Owner Jon Jorajuria
The music would be used as part of the game to enhance the game's experience. While it is not a part of the game build, you are using other people's music to promote your product. In addition you will not be able to control audio capturing and therefore would be responsible as the catalyst that enables users to obtain music through non legal means.
Here is the other issue, broadcasting fees. Since you would be broadcasting music beyond the realm of personal use, a broadcasting license would be required. Those run about 20K for the year.