MMO rpg/fps with mmo kit

#1 You do know, that mmo's are the hardist game types to make? you will need more than 4 people....

Just letting you know, you may wish to start with somthing smaller.

#2 Here we go again... lol

#3 This guy cannot be serious.

#4 To be honest!

If you are not going to aid this guy in his project, then why post here...

: Some do know that mmo's are 'the hardest to do', they have had their ears howled full for ages now so stop howling!

: If he(they) do want to work on this, let them!

Sorry for posting in Brian, especially as I cant set time off to aid ya guys. But I sish you folks the best of luck. Just wanted to post my opinion of the constant mmo slappers, since they seem to be more eager to slap than to aid!

And yes, I(we) are also working on a mmo, which of course cannot be done by indies!

Project::attempt(time, dedication);

#5 Thanks Chrisian you gave me some support by telling them how it is. my turn now.

Christian is right why post if all you are going to do is flame someone that has a idea and a dream. I spent time working on the design document and still am working on it. I have also been working with one of my team mates that is working on the web site. God im tired of people that flame before they even know what work the poster has done. Yes i am full well aware of how much work goes into a good mmo game, and i plan on working my butt off. So if all you plan on doing is flaming people that want to work on an mmo game do what Christian said and dont post at all. Christian, and a few others are about the only reasionable people that I actualy would feel like helping. I dont help flamers. What is this world coming to we need more developers like Christian instead of flamers. Christian if there is any help i can do I will help you in any way I can while working on my own project.

#6 Oh and I am dead serious about this project, and I realy do admire those who have the guts, and the will to help some one that has a dream regardless of how hard it is.

#7 Actually 4 people can pull off a succesful mmo *cough* Minions anyone? *cough* GL Brian

#8 Thanks Jonathon. one question for Christian and Jonathon. In yalls opinion is $5 a month for an mmo game reasonable. I realy dont want to go much higher than 10. I know that guild wars is free play which i do like but id pay 5 a month heck even 10 since they seem to keep the buggs down unlike SOE....I admit i still play galaxies which is why im doing this project to give people something like galaxies but not a clone even if its not as a big hit as galaxies I am doing it for those who like what galaxies brought before all of those bs updates.

#9 Well Brian Irvin. Do you code, do you do art. You can't just rely on others to make your game. If you want something done sometimes you have to do it. Also if you do want to make a MMORPG with dreamers kit you should at LEAST pay for a liscence for your team members if they don't have it.

You are basically saying buy this kit and make my game.

#10 I will be doing art, I will probaly try to do the character models as well as some of the other models. Right now I have been trying to get the design document updated to make it better and more of a design document also trying to get a website going. I have purchased dreamers mmo kit and I plan on using it to save time. Believe me I would buy the license for that kit for my team mates but kinda hard when you dont have much money.

It is alot to ask someone to work on such a huge project without geting paid until the publish date when money begins flowing, but im sure there are a few willing and i wont give up looking tell i find those few willing souls

#11 I love MMOs as much as the next guy, and of course I have pipe dreams about making an mmo and getting rich of it and what I would do diffrently then the next guy or whatever. However man MMORPGS are really hard to do. They seem extremely simple at the front end, but MMOs are like ninjas dude they dont get hard until you invest alot of time into them and then you find your self at a stone wall.

I am not trying to crush your dreams just letting you know what your in for. Start on something smaller move up from there...

Also Dreamers kit is far from being ablet o really support a true mmo.

#12 Trust me i know mmo's are difficult to make which is probaly why theres not alot of new ones coming out. Due to cost, time, and whatever else there is. And even if i did something smaller it would be a tatical 3d fps which is still big to some people i guess but that is as small as im going. Yes I do plan on doing a series of tatical fps's which take place before the mmo game and maybe some after.

Isaac I understand what your saying and i thank you for not flamming me like the beggining posters did

#13 I say too ambitous. Start small. Its more rewarding.

#14 Brian it is possible to make a MMO with a small team, but it will require lots! of hours, there will be times that you'll want to throw the towel in, but don't! ;)

Some of the best MMO's were started by small groups, and now are the biggest and best MMO out there, like at EVE online started of very small, and only during the beta testing did they increase their development teams, now their the biggest and one of the best MMO's out there, MANKIND is any other small starter, and many more come to mind.

Sure you have MMO's like WOW, Everquest, StarWars Gal., etc..., out there that started big with lots of money to back them from their companys (Blizzard, Lucas Arts, EA, etc...), but only due to the small developers showing the big boys that MMO's can be done and make lots of money.

I wish you the best luck. I'd offer my help but I'm only just getting back into programming (from the old basic days ;) ).

#15 Matthew does have an point! Start small. Its more rewarding!

Do an basic MMO of what you want, and just keep refining it till you get it to what you.

#16 Every year there are several MMO's announced that actually make it to completion and die on the shelves or in localization (many come across the pond from Korea). There are tons of them and most die out quickly because they cannot provide a ROI to either the company, the shareholders, or the subscribers. Working in the indie marketplace has some very different implications, so thinking in terms of $5 is rather meaningless without determining why a subscriber should choose your project over a flood of similar games (fantasy being the majority, sci-fi being next, and then stranger titles like Puzzle Pirates and their new Western MMO).

Take a look at smaller games like Minions of Mirth and Puzzle Pirates and how they have had to market their games. You can read back through a number of Josh Ritter's blogs and posts to see how they have worked through the history of te project and the amount of work that was put into it. It is a small-team project that worked, though some of the team did have prrofessional experience. Especially Josh, who was an extremely talented coder beforehand.

Imagining subscribers in terms of paying customers is putting the horse before the cart (miles before it) if you have no content that would make someone become a paying customer. Right now, and perhaps for the first year of production in a couple of years from now, you might be looking at a scenario when you have to give it away to even ctch one or two of the people who are curious to see what makes your game different or better.

Currently, you have a model with zero sales, regardless of whether you make it free or sell monthly subscriptions for a million dollars. You will need a system for backend subscription processing if you decide to charge for it, but with such systems, the amount charged is negligible. It is the transaction that has to work (and one of the worst places that things can go wrong is when you are dealing with their credit card or banking information). In fact, it is quite impossible to work out how many potential sales you will have since there is no content which will allow people to make a decision about your MMO over any other. Especially since the question right now seems to be "we are a few years out in development, and I'm trying to figure out if $5 will be too much to charge in three years, assuming we can create the game in that time."

A more prominent question that you should ask right now is "how can I create large-scale models of battleships which players (multiple) can fly in to, walk around on, do various things, fly out of, and fly to the planet in another ship from another cargo bay?" It may not initially seem like a MMO question because you can remove the (other people) paart in some aspects, but you still have to be conscious of it. But it gets you 1) creating art, which seems to be where you are strongest. It gets you figuring out how to create usable art that has a purpose...if your game has large starships, that is. It will help you figure out multiple points of control (can the player gain entrance to the bridge and change the starship's path? Can the player get rich and buy their own starship? If so can the player control a small ship into the big one, park, and then control the big one?) How is your collision? How are your NPC dialogue writing skills? How do you use the MMOKit inventory to do what you want? Do NPC's fall through the cracks between collision hulls? Do their paths cross zones correctly? Do you mind load times or fancy tricks such as an animated "landing sequence" at which time the level is loading in the background? Do you want a constantly streaming world?

Actually, I would recommend something even simpler bu useful. A single ship. Make it. Tweak it to fly correctly. Learn how to trigger and mount and exit flying vehicles. Tweak flight controls. You can do this now, with or without the MMMOKit. It is a small step (and remember, I advocate small steps so that your project has a chance) that works towards your final dream. That is, unless you do not want the players to be able to fly ships. Then I'm sure you can figure something that is SMALL and still works. Even the smallest things have sticking points. Then you can make a bigger ship, with a cargo hold to fly into. And a base on the ground to fly into... You know, those things that you keep putting in your document and on the forum as important.

Doing small projects like that (or implementing a backend credit processing feature to provide subscription access for pay content regardless of the price) is worth more than arbritrary numbers for a zero-subscriber base.

Again, good luck with your project. It needs some massive fleshing out.

#17 Well im glad to see that no more flamers have posted here. I will be working on the design document which will answer all of those and helping Mal geting the website up and runing. When i get back home ill answer some of those questions in your nice long post David :P.

#18 Would it be best to do what galaxies did get the ground stuff done then after that they worked on the jump of lightspeed expansion pack would that be something good for me to do?

#19 I don't have the pack since I didn't think the original was worth the money I spent on the CD and the initial month of service. There hasn't been a MMO yet that I've felt was "worth the money". I hope that it changes, but it seems that there is little innovation other than applying a new skin and changing skill names to reflect the genre.

FFXI did what I suggested above with cut-scenes while loading areas. That way the player was given something other than "Now loading...please wait" and it appeared to be seamless, even if it wasn't. They learned from their single-player development experience that people would rather see something than have their game stutter along while loading or see a load screen.

#20 I am assuming you are talking about galaxies David and I do agree that soe's lineup is borderlined of me closing all of my acounts with them due to the lack of inteligence EQ2 is about the only game still worth playing from soe planet side is ok to but glaxies has gone to hell and still isnt back lol. I wouldnt consider matrix online a game.

Yes players will be able to move around in ships and dock with bigger ones such as a carrier "maybe 10 capacity for fighters" i havent worked out the details due to not knowing what the end result will be capable of so it may be more than 10 or less than. I may do a cut scene when a ship goes in or out of a planets atmospher but as for actualy landing craft thats up to the player. All of this will be adressed in the updated version of my design doc.