Why No 3ds Max???
by Nick Husby · in Artist Corner · 10/09/2006 (12:41 pm) · 30 replies
I guess not a single person has ever wanted to export buildings from 3d studio since 1996.
Because I dont know about you, but I dont use 3d studio version 3.0!
If there is a solution to export DIF's from anything made in the last 10 years, please let me know, because it is hidden EXTREEMLY well...
Because I dont know about you, but I dont use 3d studio version 3.0!
If there is a solution to export DIF's from anything made in the last 10 years, please let me know, because it is hidden EXTREEMLY well...
#22
10/20/2006 (1:31 pm)
Try snapping your edges and see if that reduces the problems. Then we try to figure out why, what angles, and what edge requirements there are.
#23
10/20/2006 (1:32 pm)
Most AAA developers are moving away from BSP/CSG routines (aside from using it to define the rough shell of interior spaces) and moving more towards hardware occlusion query systems. BSP still has it's place but it's quickly becoming obsolete as new techniques are introduced.
#24
This was an old image so I don't know what one it was mad with.. I have almost given up on it.
10/20/2006 (1:35 pm)
I have tried a majority of them.. just makes me made when each one has its own problems when it comes to map2dif.. each one you have to watch out for so what one is the less of 2 evils.. and I don't see Constructor fixing this problem when it is released. This was an old image so I don't know what one it was mad with.. I have almost given up on it.
#25
You can use it for a while with the A6 3DGS demo.
10/20/2006 (1:35 pm)
BTW I found the best way to get .map files into torque accurately was to use WED that comed with 3DGS. For some reason I get far fewer errors when loading a map in that and then sending it through map2dif than with Quark, radiant or hammer. You can use it for a while with the A6 3DGS demo.
#26
Im willing to help, but not if your not really interisted.
@Adrian
I don't totally disagree with you, but none of us around here have the resources for AAA engines or anything bleeding edge...lol. (referring to the 50k+ engines out there).
I just also think your preaching the doom of these techniques a little early. (Pun intended, speaking of BSP =))
10/20/2006 (1:39 pm)
I cant really help if i dont know the tool you used.... I am able to create full Star cruisers in BSP/diffs complete with interiors. (for testing in TORQUE, yes, i said torque)Im willing to help, but not if your not really interisted.
@Adrian
I don't totally disagree with you, but none of us around here have the resources for AAA engines or anything bleeding edge...lol. (referring to the 50k+ engines out there).
I just also think your preaching the doom of these techniques a little early. (Pun intended, speaking of BSP =))
#27
I dont really understand your reference to Ogre being just a renderer in your previous post.
this is not new information.
Indeed OgreLib is a renderer, however there are many components that plugin to it that add more to it.
basically I have my Ogre + addons to the point where it is indeed a game engine
ie:
Renderer
Input
Physics
Particles
Character controls
Terrain
Atmosphere
and all of these components are from the Ogre cvs.
so while what you are saying is true that it is designed as a stand alone renderer.
there are many good components to use.
still not quite enough parts for a AAA title, but it is much more advanced than torque when it comes to
just about anything it does.
there is even an up and coming editor.
not to mention the support for either bsp art or poly soup pushed into a quad tree.
but this is not an Ogre plug just letting you know.
if you have the initiative there is alot to Ogre.
the problems you are having with your scene here are trivial learning mistakes.
you need to learn more about the bsp format if you wish to use it.
simple.
I could crack off that little example area you show above with no flaws.
yet in that small area you display there are many intersections.
useless intersections as well.. from lazy placement of your brush's.
simply start smaller bud.
and you should maybe consider using the bsp on a more rigid platform
(quake2 | quake3)
you can then respect torque's bsp implementation a little more.
if anything as a simple learning test.
you should also consider advancing your techniques by continuing to deploy simple structures to your scene
so you can analyze them for flaws and iteratively repair your problems till your work is flawless.
10/20/2006 (2:27 pm)
Allyn:I dont really understand your reference to Ogre being just a renderer in your previous post.
this is not new information.
Indeed OgreLib is a renderer, however there are many components that plugin to it that add more to it.
basically I have my Ogre + addons to the point where it is indeed a game engine
ie:
Renderer
Input
Physics
Particles
Character controls
Terrain
Atmosphere
and all of these components are from the Ogre cvs.
so while what you are saying is true that it is designed as a stand alone renderer.
there are many good components to use.
still not quite enough parts for a AAA title, but it is much more advanced than torque when it comes to
just about anything it does.
there is even an up and coming editor.
not to mention the support for either bsp art or poly soup pushed into a quad tree.
but this is not an Ogre plug just letting you know.
if you have the initiative there is alot to Ogre.
the problems you are having with your scene here are trivial learning mistakes.
you need to learn more about the bsp format if you wish to use it.
simple.
I could crack off that little example area you show above with no flaws.
yet in that small area you display there are many intersections.
useless intersections as well.. from lazy placement of your brush's.
simply start smaller bud.
and you should maybe consider using the bsp on a more rigid platform
(quake2 | quake3)
you can then respect torque's bsp implementation a little more.
if anything as a simple learning test.
you should also consider advancing your techniques by continuing to deploy simple structures to your scene
so you can analyze them for flaws and iteratively repair your problems till your work is flawless.
#28
5 brushes to make up some walls that is all that is in the module I can't think of anything that is simpler there isn't anything else to it.. .. and I do build a little here and take it into torque and make check to see if all is good. if it isn't I fix it then I keep building and as soon as I do that the fix i made are bigger fixes and or ar back and they just keep coming there is no way to keep on top of all the fixes..
-- edit
I read in post
over lap the brushes.. I do that I get small slivers cut up and some become missing faces.. so I try and butt them up against each other but then I read that the points get rounded so I loose my zones... so what that is telling me is there is no happy middle.
It should not me this hard!!
10/20/2006 (2:38 pm)
Thanks for the help.. 5 brushes to make up some walls that is all that is in the module I can't think of anything that is simpler there isn't anything else to it.. .. and I do build a little here and take it into torque and make check to see if all is good. if it isn't I fix it then I keep building and as soon as I do that the fix i made are bigger fixes and or ar back and they just keep coming there is no way to keep on top of all the fixes..
-- edit
I read in post
over lap the brushes.. I do that I get small slivers cut up and some become missing faces.. so I try and butt them up against each other but then I read that the points get rounded so I loose my zones... so what that is telling me is there is no happy middle.
It should not me this hard!!
#29
what tool are you using at this moment to generate the .map files?
lets start small get the geometry happy forget zones for now.
just keep it small and tight.
do Not overlap brush's
and do Not allow thier faces to connect. (this causes an intersection)
if you need to do stuff like that use detail brush's.
you should be able to have them tight without these problems.
what is the scale? sometimes if you try to build to big or small the editor fights ya.
10/20/2006 (4:01 pm)
Ok,what tool are you using at this moment to generate the .map files?
lets start small get the geometry happy forget zones for now.
just keep it small and tight.
do Not overlap brush's
and do Not allow thier faces to connect. (this causes an intersection)
if you need to do stuff like that use detail brush's.
you should be able to have them tight without these problems.
what is the scale? sometimes if you try to build to big or small the editor fights ya.
#30
Read the quote i included. Its from the orge FAQ.
Ogre is not a complete game engine.
Torque is a complete game engine.
This in no way means it not a good tool to use.
But it is not a game engine. It can be.
Depending on your project, skills, ETC... use what you need to.
I have used it before, but rather than spend all my time, and the past two years (that i have been working with torque) building my engine before i even get to start making a GAME. This is where torque shines. This isnt to say, later in life i wont use orge for another game.
Also, as a lightwave use, the support for lightwave (when i used it) is nill...
So,There you have why i chose torque.
PS: You have created a game engine. Based on Orges Rendering engine.
10/20/2006 (4:11 pm)
@BadguyRead the quote i included. Its from the orge FAQ.
Ogre is not a complete game engine.
Torque is a complete game engine.
This in no way means it not a good tool to use.
But it is not a game engine. It can be.
Depending on your project, skills, ETC... use what you need to.
I have used it before, but rather than spend all my time, and the past two years (that i have been working with torque) building my engine before i even get to start making a GAME. This is where torque shines. This isnt to say, later in life i wont use orge for another game.
Also, as a lightwave use, the support for lightwave (when i used it) is nill...
So,There you have why i chose torque.
PS: You have created a game engine. Based on Orges Rendering engine.
Adam Wilson
Thanks..... all
Like I said before I have read all I could get my hands many time over.
I am fine with bsp that is cool I understand why it is used and how it helps out anything to make it work better great.. but when it makes a dif it mess it all up. why the crap does it cut the faces up begin ?.. it just hacks up the modules so bad it isn't funny..
Her is an image I just don't know why it cut it up. 2 red arrows show the face it cut for no reason... and that is why I get missing faces when I start to add all the rooms in my building.. it seems to really only mess up when I start to put walls at angles. Keep them at right angles ??