What is being worked on for the next release(s) of TGB?

#1 @John: I have seen your name around GG for a long time. As you know, GG does not talk about what is going into our technologies in the future. There are many reasons for this, but the main thing is expectation management. You know what I am talking about, if a feature ends up getting cut or takes a long time, we get a huge amount of discussion about GG overpromising, not delivering, etc.

TGB is a completed and proven game engine that is capable of, and is shipping, products in a commercial manner. While we have been very generous with updates and free revisions in the past, there is not even a guarantee there will be updates. I'm not saying we are not going to give some free updates, we are, but we are not going to publish a roadmap.

I can tell you that real-time networking will not be added in the near future. Part of the design requirements for TGB was that it had to be easier to use than TGE or TSE. Removing major 3D functionality was part of that design as was removing client server networking. If you have used TGE, you can understand that full C/S networking makes development much harder. We are researching ideas about how to make it easier, but again, we can't make promises.

If your game requires different physics or C/S networking, then you either need to figure out how to add that functionality to the engine or consider designing a different game or find a different solution.

Again, I would love to be able to publish roadmaps and let people know where we are going, but we have been burned enough in the past that we have found that it is not feasible.

-Jeff Tunnell, GG

#2

Quote:So what I'm wondering is what is being worked on for the next release of TGB and future releases of TGB.

Cool stuff that makes games easier to make ;)

#3 Wow. Your post sounds a bit harsh but I won't take it personal. All I asked for was a general idea of what you are currently working on and your response is "We will not publish a roadmap." and "While we have been very generous with updates and free revisions in the past, there is not even a guarantee there will be updates."

I purchased TGB with the understanding that full Torque networking would be in relatively soon. I didn't expect an answer like "Don't expect full networking anytime soon. It's not a priority, and hey, even if we do implement it, it might not be free."

So perhaps I'm coming across a bit harsh now, and I hope you don't take personal offense but I didn't come up with the understanding that full networking would be implemented "soon" by the own. Take a look at Josh William's .plan from over year and a half ago. He says, and I quote:

"However, full-on, Torque-style networking isn't a part of T2D just yet. It will be very soon after the initial Early Adopter release though, and that'll be another outstanding system T2D gets to leverage for free. "

Ok, so the initial early adopters release was released what... 6 months ago? The final product (v1.0) was release what... a month ago? ...and still the only answer seems to be "don't expect it anytime soon, if ever."

So yeah, that's why I'm a little upset. I could see if I was told not to expect real-time networking for several years, but I wasn't. I was told to expect it "very soon after the early's adopters release". Also, Josh's plan isn't the only place I was told this-- I'm sure I can find many other places as well.

#4 Unfortunately, plans change during development and the inclusion of ghosted networking has been supplanted by ease-of-use. You can, however, implement TomB's resource to accommodate your game (of which I am sure you are aware from other topics you have posted).

#5 "Take a look at Josh William's .plan from over year and a half ago. He says, and I quote:"

That's exacty what Jeff was talking about - why he chose not to promise anything this time around. Even if it were being worked on, it could be detrimental to GG's credibility with the community to say so because if it was decidedly cut there would be tons of posts like this: people going 'hey, where is it?'. I'm not saying you're being malicious or even cross. I think you have a right to feel short-changed if this was a feature you expected. But again, it's that kind of thing that Jeff is trying to avoid. It's especially hard because I personally would love to see a new version of TGB go out with real-time networking. It's just not something that GG can promise right now. I'm sorry and I know that's not the answer you were looking for.

#6 I can sympathize a bit, as I was at one time pretty bummed that there would be no real-time networking implemented, and I was a little vocal about it in a particular TGB update blog. Since then, however, i've really come to appreciate the amount of work that has gone into the package aside from the RT networking, and I really do appreciate what is being offered for what amounts to a paltry sum (even for an indy!). Though I won't deny that it would be a killer feature, I think that it would be very difficult for anyone to say that TGB is not worth its price without it. From what i've read (and I cannot speak from experience here, i've never messed with it), the networking that *is* implemented is still very capable, and if better networking is a requirement for your project, the source is available, and the skys the limit there!

As far as GG's unwillingness to post a roadmap, this is becoming standard practice for many areas of software development. Announcing features before they've even begun to be implemented is an old and dreadful practice which usually leads to upset customers and frustrated developers. Typically, you will be kept abreast of TGB developments through .blogs here on the site. The great thing about getting your information this way is that you aren't hearing about features that might get impleneted, or could come in at some time, you're mostly hearing about things that are actively in the works.

#7 I'm still relatively new at Torque, so if this is a stupid question I apologize :)

Does TGE contain all the 2D capabilities of TGB? Could you own both engines and take a game you wrote for TGB and switch it over to TGE and add in the advanced networking that way?

#8 No, TGE does not contain TGB. However you can "add" TGB to TGE easily (or it was simple, I'm not sure with the latest versions) and "use" TGE that way. I think there is a tutorial of sorts on TDN which goes into using TGE as the networking for TGB.

#9 That's a thought. I might end up buying TGE anyway mostly so I don't get blocked out on the forums all the time, but it would be cool if I could combine the two...just not sure why I would want to yet :P I'll think of something lol.

#10 Aaron, another alternative is the 'Torque Network Library' (TNL) which TGE uses -- it's available in the Developer Store and is also available for free download from it's website, licensing is dependant upon use -- although, this may be a slightly more complex way to go about doing it ...

I don't believe TGE uses a stock version of TNL, however ... and TNL may provide more things then you may even possibly need ... :)

#11

Quote:and TNL may provide more things then you may even possibly need ... :)

Yes, like migraines and premature hairloss if you try and use it in TGB. The reasons for which have been mentioned over and over and I can't be bothered to repeat them yet again ;)

The only option that works well with minimum effort is using the TGE networking in TGB. Coincidentally, this is also the cheapest option. If you already have a TGB Pro license, TGE costs and extra $150 and there already exists a TDN article to get you started on moving the networking code over. TNL costs an extra $295 (IIRC) for an indie license, plus the cost of numerous trips to the hair dresser to tidy up your new bald patches and a ton of ibuprofen/asprin/whatever.

Regardless of the route chosen, real time networking in TGB still requires that you know what you are doing and you still have to write a ton of code, so that was not included in the above cost analysis.

Note that TNL does not suck, it is in fact awesome. A determined person could probably get it working in TGB, but it's just not worth the effort when there's a cheaper and significantly less painful alternative.

T.

#12 Cheaper and less painful is definately a good thing. I would prefer to go the TGE route because that way I would also own TGE. Also I doubt I would really need everything that is in TNL...I probably wouldn't need everything that's in TGE. If I decide I really need real time I'll do some more research, but probably I would just purchase TGE and work it in.

Good info. Thanks.