The vertex is far away from the bones
by FanZhang · in Artist Corner · 08/30/2006 (11:57 pm) · 4 replies
When i explors the modle,the Messagebox says that Vertex 28 missing weight on skin "horse2",but the vertex is so far away from the bones
what is the matter about that?
thanks a lot:->
what is the matter about that?thanks a lot:->
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#2
I would disagree. I think the documentation is pretty dammed good and covers more than what most people likely need to know.
Also in regards to finding an unweighted vertex. One would simply to be to move the rig around and find the vertex that is unweighed and thus remains in place. Another would be to look at the Weight Table in the skin modifier (unfortunately vertex 28 in the weight table wont be the one the export is bitching about), find it and weigh it manually. There are a few more after this but my time is too limited to explain anymore.
Logan
08/31/2006 (8:04 am)
@Tim I would disagree. I think the documentation is pretty dammed good and covers more than what most people likely need to know.
Also in regards to finding an unweighted vertex. One would simply to be to move the rig around and find the vertex that is unweighed and thus remains in place. Another would be to look at the Weight Table in the skin modifier (unfortunately vertex 28 in the weight table wont be the one the export is bitching about), find it and weigh it manually. There are a few more after this but my time is too limited to explain anymore.
Logan
#3
(About the documentation - I'm referring specifically to animation, and to character animation for Max even more specifically. Docs for making DTS shapes abound, but the act of finding information on exporting a boned character like a biped is very difficult.
I mean look at the official documentation here:
http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/general/ch08s04.php
Can you read that list of nodes? No, you can't, and there's no enlargeable version. Furthermore this information applies only to the old exporter. If you want to use the new exporter (which to the best of my knowledge does not support sequence exports at all- and if it does it has some fruity rules that nobody's discovered yet or is willing to talk about anyway - and certainly has no documentation for how to export said sequences).
And look at the documentation here, for creating a complex character:
http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/DTS/3dsmax/Creating_a_Complex_Character
It's empty!
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying the information isn't there - but it's finding it that's horribly difficult. It's offsite, or it's hidden under the resources and needs to be searched for, or you need to read through random forum threads and hope for a link... and the new exporter just causes issue after issue (I understand it's still in development, so I'm not having a dig, I'm just saying) and is also mostly undocumented.
The only real way to get a clean look at how to setup a biped for export is to look in the player.max file, and you won't know that's there unless somebody tells you, which none of the documentation does.
Apologies for dragging it so far off topic. I just did not have a fun time trying to get to grips with biped/dts export.)
08/31/2006 (9:15 am)
That's a good point actually Logan - after a while I found the easiest way to find the missing vertex was to grab every bone at once and just rotate the rig as a whole (so you get that collapsing-in-on-itself deal) which lets you see quickly which vertices aren't weighted. Then you can select them and use the weight table to manually fix them up.(About the documentation - I'm referring specifically to animation, and to character animation for Max even more specifically. Docs for making DTS shapes abound, but the act of finding information on exporting a boned character like a biped is very difficult.
I mean look at the official documentation here:
http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/general/ch08s04.php
Can you read that list of nodes? No, you can't, and there's no enlargeable version. Furthermore this information applies only to the old exporter. If you want to use the new exporter (which to the best of my knowledge does not support sequence exports at all- and if it does it has some fruity rules that nobody's discovered yet or is willing to talk about anyway - and certainly has no documentation for how to export said sequences).
And look at the documentation here, for creating a complex character:
http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/DTS/3dsmax/Creating_a_Complex_Character
It's empty!
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying the information isn't there - but it's finding it that's horribly difficult. It's offsite, or it's hidden under the resources and needs to be searched for, or you need to read through random forum threads and hope for a link... and the new exporter just causes issue after issue (I understand it's still in development, so I'm not having a dig, I'm just saying) and is also mostly undocumented.
The only real way to get a clean look at how to setup a biped for export is to look in the player.max file, and you won't know that's there unless somebody tells you, which none of the documentation does.
Apologies for dragging it so far off topic. I just did not have a fun time trying to get to grips with biped/dts export.)
#4
No I think you bring up some very good points. A lot of the links for artists are horribly buried or are difficult to find, for example the "Artists" link is in the Developer category, something that I know most artists don't consider themselves as.
With regards to TDN, I have no clue what is going on there. I know most of the old information got ported onto TDN, but you are right there are a number of entries that are empty. I don't know if this is because someone at GG forgot to finish the entry or because someone with public access thought they could write a tutorial and then gave up. I do know that you are not the first person to mention this and as such it really shows a glaring problem with how documentation and information is maintained here on the site.
As for the DTS Nodes. There's a great little doc that I wrote up called the DTS Nodes PDF, which lists all the stock nodes that TGE/TSE uses by default. Its a pretty invaluable doc to have and reference. Sadly it is also another example of a great artist link that got buried and most new people don't know about ;(
One thing that should be made clear though, is that there aren't many hard and fast rules as to where DTS nodes have to go when exporting a skeletal rig except for the following:
1) Detail markers should be branched off of the root node that marks the DTS hierarchy. All other nodes can be placed anywhere else on the DTS hierarchy.
2) Start01 and Base01 are not required names. You can replace Start01 with any other name, such as Bip01 and it will work fine. Base01 isn't actually a hard requirement.
In regards to the new exporter, I actually don't use it by choice. I find it to be pretty difficult to use and counter to my productivity. Tasks that took me no time at all to do, take me about 20x longer with it, and when I am dealing with exporting a plethora of art every day, it becomes a real hinderence. As such I might recommend stripping it out of your Max install and relying on the old method if you are having problems with it.
09/01/2006 (8:09 am)
@TimNo I think you bring up some very good points. A lot of the links for artists are horribly buried or are difficult to find, for example the "Artists" link is in the Developer category, something that I know most artists don't consider themselves as.
With regards to TDN, I have no clue what is going on there. I know most of the old information got ported onto TDN, but you are right there are a number of entries that are empty. I don't know if this is because someone at GG forgot to finish the entry or because someone with public access thought they could write a tutorial and then gave up. I do know that you are not the first person to mention this and as such it really shows a glaring problem with how documentation and information is maintained here on the site.
As for the DTS Nodes. There's a great little doc that I wrote up called the DTS Nodes PDF, which lists all the stock nodes that TGE/TSE uses by default. Its a pretty invaluable doc to have and reference. Sadly it is also another example of a great artist link that got buried and most new people don't know about ;(
One thing that should be made clear though, is that there aren't many hard and fast rules as to where DTS nodes have to go when exporting a skeletal rig except for the following:
1) Detail markers should be branched off of the root node that marks the DTS hierarchy. All other nodes can be placed anywhere else on the DTS hierarchy.
2) Start01 and Base01 are not required names. You can replace Start01 with any other name, such as Bip01 and it will work fine. Base01 isn't actually a hard requirement.
In regards to the new exporter, I actually don't use it by choice. I find it to be pretty difficult to use and counter to my productivity. Tasks that took me no time at all to do, take me about 20x longer with it, and when I am dealing with exporting a plethora of art every day, it becomes a real hinderence. As such I might recommend stripping it out of your Max install and relying on the old method if you are having problems with it.
Torque Owner Tim Colwill
I'm loathe to say this as the documentation for animation is scattered, out of date and generally pretty awful, but even this is in there.
Check out this guide at http://torque.smdlabs.com/3dsmaxAnimationSetup.htm for some help.