How Do I Get My Ad Noticed?
by Trane DePriest · in General Discussion · 08/22/2006 (5:15 pm) · 11 replies
Hello,
I posted an advertisement for a programmer (or team) to help in the development of a game for my company. We are a group of TV stations, Magazines, and Newspapers, and we're SERIOUSLY interested in finding a crew to create a Massive Multiplayer Online RACING Game. There's a considerable amount of custom web/database/interface work besides the modeling, texturing, and map building... So a team with some experience is probably the best candidate.
I had posted a help wanted ad a few months back, and got some responses. Two were interesting. However, one of them was from Cologne Germany, and my have been out of our price range, the other was one individual, and my have been under-equiped for the task. I'd like to hear from others who think they're able to work this kind of a project.
My employer is looking for a turnkey solution... so I'd like to work with a team to refine the product to meet my company's requirements, and then make a deal both parties would like.
Please let me know, how I can get the attention of the best developers these forums have to offer, and how I can submit an RFQ that would get the ball rolling.
Thanks
Trane
I posted an advertisement for a programmer (or team) to help in the development of a game for my company. We are a group of TV stations, Magazines, and Newspapers, and we're SERIOUSLY interested in finding a crew to create a Massive Multiplayer Online RACING Game. There's a considerable amount of custom web/database/interface work besides the modeling, texturing, and map building... So a team with some experience is probably the best candidate.
I had posted a help wanted ad a few months back, and got some responses. Two were interesting. However, one of them was from Cologne Germany, and my have been out of our price range, the other was one individual, and my have been under-equiped for the task. I'd like to hear from others who think they're able to work this kind of a project.
My employer is looking for a turnkey solution... so I'd like to work with a team to refine the product to meet my company's requirements, and then make a deal both parties would like.
Please let me know, how I can get the attention of the best developers these forums have to offer, and how I can submit an RFQ that would get the ball rolling.
Thanks
Trane
#2
This is:
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=project&page=view.job&qid=5379
08/22/2006 (5:54 pm)
It's not... This is:
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=project&page=view.job&qid=5379
#3
Having a good demo with screenshots is the best way to get someone's attention, but it's pretty hard to create a demo when you don't have a programmer.
Maybe having a design document and some concept art or something would help.
It might also help to specify how much you're willing to pay. Of course, some of us (such as myself) don't use Torque anyways and wouldn't be able to do your project regardless.
08/23/2006 (8:20 am)
There's alot of people who post help wanted ads, and many of them aren't serious about the games they're working on. Yours looks relatively professional, but it lacks a demo.Having a good demo with screenshots is the best way to get someone's attention, but it's pretty hard to create a demo when you don't have a programmer.
Maybe having a design document and some concept art or something would help.
It might also help to specify how much you're willing to pay. Of course, some of us (such as myself) don't use Torque anyways and wouldn't be able to do your project regardless.
#4
I think you need to rethink the way you are going about this. Reading through your ad, what you are asking for is a lot of work. It will be hard to find an experienced team to quote on the whole thing. This is partly because the "best" are kept extremely busy and most wouldn't have time for something that big, and partly because there are very few complete teams that are geared up to take on an entire project like that.
I think you would be better off if you split this up into smaller tasks and contracted them out individually to different people.
I don't have time to go into this in any kind of depth, but here's some expectation management. I am splitting this into code and art, because you can contract those out seperately.
Code Stuff
Are you aware that the stock vehicle physics in Torque are kind of "crappy" ? They were originally used as a supplemental gameplay element for an FPS, and so are not exactly tuned for a racing game. If they are fine for what you need, cool, but it sounds like you're going to need to do something about that ... which is no small task.
That is doable. There are various options open on that route, and a good programmer would be able to get that done pretty quickly. One thing you don't mention is whether you need the web side of things too. If you already have an in-house team to handle that, you should mention that. Having to make the web side of things as well as the game side will pretty much double, or worse, the time it takes to make. That's important information to know when quoting.
Vehcile Upgrades seem to indicate that you do need better vehicle physics, since there is going to be a limit on how much you can tweak with the stock code for upgrades. That adds a lot of time.
Although getting DEM data into TGE is pretty easy, but it may not be so easy to do on a scale that you want. I'll come back to this in a minute.
That I think is a big part of where the problem is. There are very few people in this community that could handle an MMO, and that adds a big chunk of time. It also vastly increases the need for custom vehicle physics since the stock vehicles are going to be far too heavy on networking.
I think you need to reconsider that aspect, at least for version 1.0. It is pretty likely that you can support a good number of players, but probably not so many as would be deemed "massive."
To be honest, as a contractor, when I see the word "massive multiplayers" in a help wanted ad alarm bells ring immediately. It is a term usually used by the very inexperienced that have no idea what they are doing, and 90% of the time the ads for MMO developers are of the "work for royalties" type (e.g. work for free, since it's unlikely ever to ship). There are some exceptions to this, of course, and I'm not saying that's where you are coming from.
Art Stuff
That is a lot of art, and requires a significant amount of code to tie it all iinto the engine. The code side is not particularly difficult to do, its just time consuming.
That is very, very unrealistic. Doing 50 mile diameter maps in TGE ... unlikely to be feasible. You could do it in TSE, but that then kills Mac compatibility (for the time being, although given how much work this is, TSE will probably have been ported to the mac by the time you ship ;-)..) and it also vastly increases your minimum system requirements. Some of that can be alleviated by a good programmer, but you're talking about a lot of work.
Suggestions
I think you need to sit down and think this through. Be realistic about your game and what is involved.
You have basically two options to get this done:
1. Split this up into small chunks, and contract each chunk out seperately. You may end up with a few different people working on this over the life of the project, but more likely you will get lucky and find people that can take repeat work to get the rest done.
2. Contact GarageGames and find out about consulting. There are a few good consultants for things like this, and GG knows who they are. Perhaps you will get lucky and someone who knows more about this then I do will post to this thread ;)
Because your project sounds a bit unrealistic in it's current form, I would reccomend getting a consultant to help you work out the kinks with the current plan and don't start contracting out work until you have that sorted out.
Hopefully that helps you out at least a bit.
Regards,
Tom.
08/23/2006 (12:33 pm)
@Trane,I think you need to rethink the way you are going about this. Reading through your ad, what you are asking for is a lot of work. It will be hard to find an experienced team to quote on the whole thing. This is partly because the "best" are kept extremely busy and most wouldn't have time for something that big, and partly because there are very few complete teams that are geared up to take on an entire project like that.
I think you would be better off if you split this up into smaller tasks and contracted them out individually to different people.
Quote:As I'm only a novice with Torque, but I'm anxious to talk about the nuts and bolts of what is feasable.
I don't have time to go into this in any kind of depth, but here's some expectation management. I am splitting this into code and art, because you can contract those out seperately.
Code Stuff
Quote:I am looking to hire a developer(s) to modify the race game in Torque
Are you aware that the stock vehicle physics in Torque are kind of "crappy" ? They were originally used as a supplemental gameplay element for an FPS, and so are not exactly tuned for a racing game. If they are fine for what you need, cool, but it sounds like you're going to need to do something about that ... which is no small task.
Quote:1.) Advertising engine for billboards: I'd like to collect statistics in an SQL table of players much like web statistics are collected. When a player accumulates a certain point value and/or crosses a particular checkpoint, I'd like to register that event in an external database... for scoring, in-game upgrades, and on-the-web reporting purposes.
That is doable. There are various options open on that route, and a good programmer would be able to get that done pretty quickly. One thing you don't mention is whether you need the web side of things too. If you already have an in-house team to handle that, you should mention that. Having to make the web side of things as well as the game side will pretty much double, or worse, the time it takes to make. That's important information to know when quoting.
Quote:2.) The upgrade inventory items must be unlocked. EXAMPLE: In-game you buy some snowtires... but you only get 1/3 the traction bonus... you have to register at an external website in order to unlock the remaining 2/3 of the traction points.
Vehcile Upgrades seem to indicate that you do need better vehicle physics, since there is going to be a limit on how much you can tweak with the stock code for upgrades. That adds a lot of time.
Quote:4.) DEM data collected from county sites would need to be converted and modified. The racing region would be a patchwork of heightmaps based on real topographical data.
Although getting DEM data into TGE is pretty easy, but it may not be so easy to do on a scale that you want. I'll come back to this in a minute.
Quote:5.) Support for massive multiplayers.
That I think is a big part of where the problem is. There are very few people in this community that could handle an MMO, and that adds a big chunk of time. It also vastly increases the need for custom vehicle physics since the stock vehicles are going to be far too heavy on networking.
I think you need to reconsider that aspect, at least for version 1.0. It is pretty likely that you can support a good number of players, but probably not so many as would be deemed "massive."
To be honest, as a contractor, when I see the word "massive multiplayers" in a help wanted ad alarm bells ring immediately. It is a term usually used by the very inexperienced that have no idea what they are doing, and 90% of the time the ads for MMO developers are of the "work for royalties" type (e.g. work for free, since it's unlikely ever to ship). There are some exceptions to this, of course, and I'm not saying that's where you are coming from.
Art Stuff
Quote:3.)10 base car models, with a basic "paint" and model mod capability. Inventory of body upgrades would be tied to ingame "commerce."
That is a lot of art, and requires a significant amount of code to tie it all iinto the engine. The code side is not particularly difficult to do, its just time consuming.
Quote:7.) Maps would include metropolitan, urban streets, strip malls, freeways, suburbs, and wilderness. approx. 50 miles in diameter each. Player will be able to load other map by driving to "airport" and boarding a C5 Cargo plane.
That is very, very unrealistic. Doing 50 mile diameter maps in TGE ... unlikely to be feasible. You could do it in TSE, but that then kills Mac compatibility (for the time being, although given how much work this is, TSE will probably have been ported to the mac by the time you ship ;-)..) and it also vastly increases your minimum system requirements. Some of that can be alleviated by a good programmer, but you're talking about a lot of work.
Suggestions
I think you need to sit down and think this through. Be realistic about your game and what is involved.
You have basically two options to get this done:
1. Split this up into small chunks, and contract each chunk out seperately. You may end up with a few different people working on this over the life of the project, but more likely you will get lucky and find people that can take repeat work to get the rest done.
2. Contact GarageGames and find out about consulting. There are a few good consultants for things like this, and GG knows who they are. Perhaps you will get lucky and someone who knows more about this then I do will post to this thread ;)
Because your project sounds a bit unrealistic in it's current form, I would reccomend getting a consultant to help you work out the kinks with the current plan and don't start contracting out work until you have that sorted out.
Hopefully that helps you out at least a bit.
Regards,
Tom.
#5
Can you post that response in a resource or a plan. That was amazing to read a break down of expectations for making a game with Torque.
08/25/2006 (4:55 am)
@Tom BamptonCan you post that response in a resource or a plan. That was amazing to read a break down of expectations for making a game with Torque.
#6
08/25/2006 (6:01 am)
Well, I've noticed that people don't really read the Jobs posted. I posted a simple camera change for $50, and have received not even one request. Then again, I never go there.
#7
I read them. Then again, that's why I get paid to work extra contracts around here. :)
08/25/2006 (6:13 am)
@James (Burning) LakerI read them. Then again, that's why I get paid to work extra contracts around here. :)
#8
If it was so simple then someone probably would had stepped up :)
I'm interested to see what your request was, but I cant find it anymore.
08/25/2006 (6:27 am)
@Burning:If it was so simple then someone probably would had stepped up :)
I'm interested to see what your request was, but I cant find it anymore.
#9
08/25/2006 (10:06 am)
I would just like to say that, in general, non-programmers tend not to have a very good gauge of what is/isn't difficult for a programmer to do. I agree with that response by Tom. As a programmer, I see a big/unrealistic help-wanted ad as a sign that the poster doesn't have much experience with large programming projects. And that's about all it takes for me to ignore the post.
#11
What is the limit to scale for maps with heavy amounts of "city elements." Can Torque support massive maps with hundreds of city blocks? I've never seen one. I like the map scale of City of Heroes. That's perfect! Larger regions seperated by "tunnels" and lightrails.
I have refined my requests, and contacted a couple of interested programmers and development teams. I explained to them that I have some budget for the games development. But am also in a position to offer on-going revenue through customizations, license fees, etc..
I agree with you about getting a consultant... I will be contacting GG by the middle of next week. After I'm done with creating the design document.
08/25/2006 (10:34 pm)
@ Tom Bapton;What is the limit to scale for maps with heavy amounts of "city elements." Can Torque support massive maps with hundreds of city blocks? I've never seen one. I like the map scale of City of Heroes. That's perfect! Larger regions seperated by "tunnels" and lightrails.
I have refined my requests, and contacted a couple of interested programmers and development teams. I explained to them that I have some budget for the games development. But am also in a position to offer on-going revenue through customizations, license fees, etc..
I agree with you about getting a consultant... I will be contacting GG by the middle of next week. After I'm done with creating the design document.
Torque Owner Okashira
Why do I get the feeling that this is actually your ad?