Tutorial Woes
by Sebastian Potter · in Torque Game Builder · 08/15/2006 (2:38 pm) · 6 replies
I've worked through a couple of the tutorials on TDN, and much to my frustration found them to be non-functional. Despite that I've persisted and eventually gotten something close to the original intent working.
I've since read several comments noting that the tutorials I have completed have taught me extremely bad habits and that there is discussion about pulling them from TDN until new versions can be created.
As a request for those of us who do not know enough about TGB to determine the usefulness of a particular tutorial, is there perhaps a list somewhere of complete, tested, contemporary and appropriate tutorials for TGB? It's really disheartening looking at the list of genre tutorials only to see that they are all either incomplete or to find out after using them that they are incorrect.
I've since read several comments noting that the tutorials I have completed have taught me extremely bad habits and that there is discussion about pulling them from TDN until new versions can be created.
As a request for those of us who do not know enough about TGB to determine the usefulness of a particular tutorial, is there perhaps a list somewhere of complete, tested, contemporary and appropriate tutorials for TGB? It's really disheartening looking at the list of genre tutorials only to see that they are all either incomplete or to find out after using them that they are incorrect.
#2
Can I make a suggestion -- if you've gone through a good majority of them, and have found errors or 'bad habits' and can note them, identify all these in a single thread so that 'newbs' can quickly see what tutorials are 'good', which are 'out dated' and which are just 'not good practice' ... as Charlie stated, they are community based and supported -- help the community by notating your 'woes' with a list of what you've discovered thus far.
Thanks in advance if you take my advice, as I'll probably be one of the first people to take advantage of your 'woes' and not live through it myself.
08/17/2006 (7:33 pm)
Sebastian,Can I make a suggestion -- if you've gone through a good majority of them, and have found errors or 'bad habits' and can note them, identify all these in a single thread so that 'newbs' can quickly see what tutorials are 'good', which are 'out dated' and which are just 'not good practice' ... as Charlie stated, they are community based and supported -- help the community by notating your 'woes' with a list of what you've discovered thus far.
Thanks in advance if you take my advice, as I'll probably be one of the first people to take advantage of your 'woes' and not live through it myself.
#3
It was written when a previous version of the software was developed and the tileset section in the first tutorial is out of date. The motion section in chapter two refers to scripts that aren't used anymore, plus use code snippets that will knowingly flood out the console. The third part on the camera, again refers to old scripts that have been eliminated or hidden, and don't seem to work.
I haven't trudged any farther than the 3rd section yet, but unless you like debugging stuff and trial and error learning, look elsewhere than this tutorial.
P.S. To those of you who worked on the tutorial, don't think that I am saying your work was unappreciated or slipshod. It has it's merits, but it needs to be updated in order for it to be a good tutorial for beginners. So don't take offense, because it's not what's intended.
08/23/2006 (8:58 pm)
The Platformer tutorial is one of the ones to avoid if you're a total newb.It was written when a previous version of the software was developed and the tileset section in the first tutorial is out of date. The motion section in chapter two refers to scripts that aren't used anymore, plus use code snippets that will knowingly flood out the console. The third part on the camera, again refers to old scripts that have been eliminated or hidden, and don't seem to work.
I haven't trudged any farther than the 3rd section yet, but unless you like debugging stuff and trial and error learning, look elsewhere than this tutorial.
P.S. To those of you who worked on the tutorial, don't think that I am saying your work was unappreciated or slipshod. It has it's merits, but it needs to be updated in order for it to be a good tutorial for beginners. So don't take offense, because it's not what's intended.
#4
Is it still useable to understand the basic code concepts necessary to create a platformer? Such as how to implement gravity so when the player jumps they fall correctly, as well as when they step off objects, etc.
08/23/2006 (9:11 pm)
Mark,Is it still useable to understand the basic code concepts necessary to create a platformer? Such as how to implement gravity so when the player jumps they fall correctly, as well as when they step off objects, etc.
#5
If you already know some programming and have played with TGE or TSE, then you'll probably be able to figure out how to make the code work. But for beginners, the frustration will kill them off.
There is some good stuff in there though, like how to determine if the slope ahead is too steep, etc...
08/23/2006 (9:50 pm)
It is, but a new user is going to get too frustrated at not being able to get the code running to see any of it work. The tileset problem with the old editor is in the very first section. Do you think anyones going to go much further than that if they can't get step 1 to work? Probably not.If you already know some programming and have played with TGE or TSE, then you'll probably be able to figure out how to make the code work. But for beginners, the frustration will kill them off.
There is some good stuff in there though, like how to determine if the slope ahead is too steep, etc...
#6
Programming is how I make my living, game-dev is how I'm currently attempting to entertain myself 'after work'. I've grasped the understanding that TGB is still in 'beta' for the most part and is being heavily worked on, as well as that it was also at one point (from my understanding thus far) codenamed/tagged 'Torque2D' while it was just alpha.
I expect there to be quite a few issues with the tutorials, I'd actually like to help resolve some of them by rewriting or updating them for the current release once I license the engine.
As for beginners, I assume you meant 'new to programming and game dev all together', in which case, I honestly don't believe that the TGB tutorials are going to get them very far -- there is no much 'intro to coding' involved in them, it's more or less 'intro to torquescript for programmers by programmers' but with a 'for dummies' twist to there overall logic -- they over explain how to do things, but don't really explain the logic behind it (which is what newb programmers need to know and understand -- I think everyone with a keyboard and computer can copy/paste text into a code editor, but understanding exactly what it is they are copy/pasting is a different story).
I've not yet seen the resources available on TDN or for licensed users, so I may be speaking too soon ... apologies if that's the case.
08/23/2006 (10:07 pm)
Mark,Programming is how I make my living, game-dev is how I'm currently attempting to entertain myself 'after work'. I've grasped the understanding that TGB is still in 'beta' for the most part and is being heavily worked on, as well as that it was also at one point (from my understanding thus far) codenamed/tagged 'Torque2D' while it was just alpha.
I expect there to be quite a few issues with the tutorials, I'd actually like to help resolve some of them by rewriting or updating them for the current release once I license the engine.
As for beginners, I assume you meant 'new to programming and game dev all together', in which case, I honestly don't believe that the TGB tutorials are going to get them very far -- there is no much 'intro to coding' involved in them, it's more or less 'intro to torquescript for programmers by programmers' but with a 'for dummies' twist to there overall logic -- they over explain how to do things, but don't really explain the logic behind it (which is what newb programmers need to know and understand -- I think everyone with a keyboard and computer can copy/paste text into a code editor, but understanding exactly what it is they are copy/pasting is a different story).
I've not yet seen the resources available on TDN or for licensed users, so I may be speaking too soon ... apologies if that's the case.
Torque Owner Charlie Malbaurn
The problems with the TDN tutorials are that they are community based and supported and a lot have not been updated since the new release.
It really doesn't have much to do with the GG guys. Like I said before, they use TDN as more of a community helping the community sort of thing. I think they plan on changing that but it's a work in progress. Remember, it's just a beta product.
I don't know when that's going to change though.
Edit: Speeeling errors