Product decisions
by Dan · in General Discussion · 08/15/2006 (1:55 pm) · 3 replies
I guess I should give a bit of background about me first.
I'm a student persuing a 4-year degree as a Computer Science Major, with a Minor in Game Design. Game Design has always been a hobby of mine that I'm looking to expand to further horizons. I've been doing some research, and I really like what the various Torque products have to offer, and I'm very pleased to see that they are continually updated and are adapting to today's gaming environment.
I have rather decent experience in various programming languages, namely J2EE and C++. I've spent some time interning in the corporate world, so I'd like to be able to say I'm at least proficient. However, like I said, gaming development has always been an interest of mine, and I'd love to get a bit more serious about it. I've actually coded a few 2D engines myself, one for a 2D platformer game, much like Mario, and another for an overhead exploratory game. However the process of coding a flexible workable engine alone from scratch is frustrating, to say the least.
I guess I should get to the point. I've come here to ask advice on which product to purchase. Currently, I'm definitely more interested in the 2D world of gaming. I'm busy as it is, and developing a full-fledged 3D game would not be within my abilities at this time. My 3D modelling skills as poor as well, so a full-fledged 3D game is really out of the question right now. However, I love the networking options that TGE has, along with the general flexability. Being able to code various modules, AI for example, in C++ is a huge plus for me, as that is something I really enjoy doing. However, I wouldn't spend too much time in the actual world of 3D, which makes me wonder if TGE is the right choice for me.
I've looked at the TGB as well, and it looks very interesting. However, I'm very worried about the flexibility it offers. I've played with the trial, and although I haven't spent extensive time with it, my biggest fear is that I'll spend many hours in frustration trying to work around constraints placed before me that wouldn't be an issue in the TGE.
In a perfect world where money was not an obstacle, I'd already have my answer. I'd purchase the Pro version of the Torque Game Builder, and the Torque Gaming Engine as well. I could then simply integrate aspects from both and everything would be perfect. However, I really can't afford to do this at this time.
So I guess some of my major questions are:
How counter-intuitive is TGE when it comes to designing a primarily 2D game? Would using it as a 2D engine cause more frustration than it's worth?
How is the networking implementation of TGB? Is it decent? What are the major limitations?
Is TGB itself very limiting? I'm not interested in using a product that is mainly for the "newbie", for lack of a better term. I don't want something that is primarily point-and-click, as that is incredibly confining. If I were to scrounge together the $250 for the Pro version, how much do you think it will improve my overall enjoyment of TGB?
I thank you all for your time, I really appreciate it.
I'm a student persuing a 4-year degree as a Computer Science Major, with a Minor in Game Design. Game Design has always been a hobby of mine that I'm looking to expand to further horizons. I've been doing some research, and I really like what the various Torque products have to offer, and I'm very pleased to see that they are continually updated and are adapting to today's gaming environment.
I have rather decent experience in various programming languages, namely J2EE and C++. I've spent some time interning in the corporate world, so I'd like to be able to say I'm at least proficient. However, like I said, gaming development has always been an interest of mine, and I'd love to get a bit more serious about it. I've actually coded a few 2D engines myself, one for a 2D platformer game, much like Mario, and another for an overhead exploratory game. However the process of coding a flexible workable engine alone from scratch is frustrating, to say the least.
I guess I should get to the point. I've come here to ask advice on which product to purchase. Currently, I'm definitely more interested in the 2D world of gaming. I'm busy as it is, and developing a full-fledged 3D game would not be within my abilities at this time. My 3D modelling skills as poor as well, so a full-fledged 3D game is really out of the question right now. However, I love the networking options that TGE has, along with the general flexability. Being able to code various modules, AI for example, in C++ is a huge plus for me, as that is something I really enjoy doing. However, I wouldn't spend too much time in the actual world of 3D, which makes me wonder if TGE is the right choice for me.
I've looked at the TGB as well, and it looks very interesting. However, I'm very worried about the flexibility it offers. I've played with the trial, and although I haven't spent extensive time with it, my biggest fear is that I'll spend many hours in frustration trying to work around constraints placed before me that wouldn't be an issue in the TGE.
In a perfect world where money was not an obstacle, I'd already have my answer. I'd purchase the Pro version of the Torque Game Builder, and the Torque Gaming Engine as well. I could then simply integrate aspects from both and everything would be perfect. However, I really can't afford to do this at this time.
So I guess some of my major questions are:
How counter-intuitive is TGE when it comes to designing a primarily 2D game? Would using it as a 2D engine cause more frustration than it's worth?
How is the networking implementation of TGB? Is it decent? What are the major limitations?
Is TGB itself very limiting? I'm not interested in using a product that is mainly for the "newbie", for lack of a better term. I don't want something that is primarily point-and-click, as that is incredibly confining. If I were to scrounge together the $250 for the Pro version, how much do you think it will improve my overall enjoyment of TGB?
I thank you all for your time, I really appreciate it.
#2
Now you mention liking TGE because of it's networking capabilities. And they are most certainly powerful, really the best part of the engine. Be warned though, these come at the price of the engine being created entirely around the networking structure. Even with solid C++ experience, dealing with the intricacies of programming things into a networked environment still might take some time to get used to.
I'd say at least start really trying to get into TGB, maybe prototyping your game ideas in it, and seeing if you think it will work out there, or you should move to TGE. The biggest advantage I've found with TGB so far, is that it is incredibly easy to test ideas and functionality, compared to TGE. In the time it will take you just to get a handle on working in TGE, you could have coded a full prototype in TGB.
08/16/2006 (11:40 am)
TGB is in no way limiting. The point and click interface has been added on top of a powerful core product, simply so it is possible for newbie users to get acclimated. Unless you really need to make core functionality changes for your gameplay, even the Pro version of TGB might not be necessary. Things as advanced as custom physics can be coded through the scripting interface to TGB. However the networking is somewhat limited, being really only optimal for turn-based games at this point. There are means to hack around this, but nothing to the level of how TGE handles things.Now you mention liking TGE because of it's networking capabilities. And they are most certainly powerful, really the best part of the engine. Be warned though, these come at the price of the engine being created entirely around the networking structure. Even with solid C++ experience, dealing with the intricacies of programming things into a networked environment still might take some time to get used to.
I'd say at least start really trying to get into TGB, maybe prototyping your game ideas in it, and seeing if you think it will work out there, or you should move to TGE. The biggest advantage I've found with TGB so far, is that it is incredibly easy to test ideas and functionality, compared to TGE. In the time it will take you just to get a handle on working in TGE, you could have coded a full prototype in TGB.
#3
EDIT : I forgot the three downsides to Game Maker-
1.You can't directly edit the source, though you shouldn't need to with it's powerful scripting language and .dll support.
2.A large part of the community is made up of spamming 12-year olds that don't bother using Game Maker to even half of it's abillity.
3.And worst of all - Game Maker and it's games only run on Windows. Though there is a project called GMLinux or something like that.
08/16/2006 (1:34 pm)
Also, take a look at Game Maker & it's C-like scripting langauge GML. If you ignore the kiddish community, and the simplicity of the Drag-&-Drop interface, you will find a very advanced scripting language with things like .dll support to furthur edit your game. Also with a .dll called GMSock(look it up on Game Maker's community), you can have fast multiplayer(multiplayer functions are built into the scripting language, but it can get slow, though still worth learning). Here's the best part - If you aren't interested in multiplayer, .dll support, or it's very limited 3d functions, it is absolutly free! If you want any of those things, I think registration is only like $20. Oh, and with either version you can sell your game with no royalties to the developer of Game Maker.EDIT : I forgot the three downsides to Game Maker-
1.You can't directly edit the source, though you shouldn't need to with it's powerful scripting language and .dll support.
2.A large part of the community is made up of spamming 12-year olds that don't bother using Game Maker to even half of it's abillity.
3.And worst of all - Game Maker and it's games only run on Windows. Though there is a project called GMLinux or something like that.
Torque Owner Badguy
you need to purchase TGE and work with it to build your stuff till you can afford to spend more on the other tools.
for someone with your plans for training you should already have worked with many of the open source engines.
if you have not yet then I recommend you spend sometime with them.
TGE will be a perfect starting point for someone of your caliber.
my reasoning is simple, you dont have the money yet for them all but you need to get a proper solid foundation with which to build.
TGE has that and because it is cheaper for an indie license than the TGB or the other products related.
(I'm pretty sure I have not actually checked)
You can easily develop a 2d game using TGE.
you can use just gui components or fixed plane 3d geometry.
I recommend instead of jumping on a game to make with it.
to instead simply study the layout and understand the script linkages
the startup procedure of the engine and mission. you can do most of this with the demo.
in fact you can easily make a 2d game with the demo script capabilities.
but as you have stated you would be limited by the inability to access the code.
I could finish this up by pushing Open Source a little more.
there are plenty engine packages out there that have much to offer you.
Ogre3d
OpenSceneGraph
Nebula Device 1/2
Yaki
OpenFrag
just to name a few
those are all alot of fun, ... Ok I dont much like Nebula device.
also there are none out there with the extensive feature set included within torque out of the box.