Totally Extreme Game Engine Fight Club
by Jonathon Stevens · in General Discussion · 08/10/2006 (1:09 pm) · 10 replies
OK, so I went a lilttle over-board on the title, but hey, you're here aren't you?
I wanted to post a question that is different than what I've seen in the past for engine comparisons. You always see 'is Engine X better than Engine Y?' and such. You never see 'What Engine has the best X component and what engine has the best Y component?'
In other words, what's the best COMPONENTS available and what engine are they in? Even take it a little further and say "what's the best LOW COST/FREE component and what's the best OVERALL (may cost money, may not) component in that same area."
Just to get it going, here are a few areas I'm thinking about, maybe someone can toss on more that I haven't thought about yet:
Physics Engine -
Graphics Engine (can someone who knows more in this area break this out to different things that are related, but would be considered part of the graphics engine?)
AI -
Network layer -
Server Layer -
Client Layer -
Scripting language support -
I wanted to post a question that is different than what I've seen in the past for engine comparisons. You always see 'is Engine X better than Engine Y?' and such. You never see 'What Engine has the best X component and what engine has the best Y component?'
In other words, what's the best COMPONENTS available and what engine are they in? Even take it a little further and say "what's the best LOW COST/FREE component and what's the best OVERALL (may cost money, may not) component in that same area."
Just to get it going, here are a few areas I'm thinking about, maybe someone can toss on more that I haven't thought about yet:
Physics Engine -
Graphics Engine (can someone who knows more in this area break this out to different things that are related, but would be considered part of the graphics engine?)
AI -
Network layer -
Server Layer -
Client Layer -
Scripting language support -
About the author
With a few casual games under his belt as CEO of Last Straw Productions, Jonathon created the increasingly popular Indie MMO Game Developers Conference.
#2
At least, that's how it reads to me.
So, which engine is best at physics? Which engine is best at AI? yadda yadda yadda
Of course, that's just my interpretation, I could be wrong.
08/10/2006 (1:22 pm)
Badguy - I think you miss his point. He's not asking "What engine covers all of this?" He's asking "For each of these given items, which particular engine is best at it?"At least, that's how it reads to me.
So, which engine is best at physics? Which engine is best at AI? yadda yadda yadda
Of course, that's just my interpretation, I could be wrong.
#3
I'm simply wanting to know components on an individual basis, not engines as a whole. In other words, who has the best AI in their engine? Who has the best Client software in their engine? And so on.
Edit: Bah, Cliff beat me to it ;)
08/10/2006 (1:22 pm)
You misread what I'm asking. I'm not asking for an engine that has the best of each of these or even each of these for free. I'm asking for specific components. For instance, Torque is known to have an incredible (best in industry I've heard) FPS network layer. So that would win in the 'network layer' area. TSE has a better graphics rendering pipeline with the addition of shaders and so on. So TSE would win out over TGE in the graphics engine area.I'm simply wanting to know components on an individual basis, not engines as a whole. In other words, who has the best AI in their engine? Who has the best Client software in their engine? And so on.
Edit: Bah, Cliff beat me to it ;)
#4
To be really honest... I didn't think a C# game engine was realistic until I found out TSE is ported to C# and MDX. If GG can get Torque to work with C# and MDX... what am I holding back anymore for.
08/10/2006 (1:24 pm)
Screw licensing an engine. Just code your own engine. I'm doing it and for a game that is going on sale in November. If I can do it, so can you. If it takes months to code your game specific engine and it takes 2 years to learn your way around engine X, it's not a hard decision. It wasn't for me.To be really honest... I didn't think a C# game engine was realistic until I found out TSE is ported to C# and MDX. If GG can get Torque to work with C# and MDX... what am I holding back anymore for.
#5
As far as C#, check out Axiom, it's the C# port of OGRE and has been around for quite some time now.
08/10/2006 (1:26 pm)
@Anton - The question is mostly geared towards the fact that I am building my own engine. I just wanted to see what the 'industry' thought about each engine's abilities in individual areas, and not as a whole.As far as C#, check out Axiom, it's the C# port of OGRE and has been around for quite some time now.
#6
well then Hands down Ogre is king in graphics and physics and OO design.
tse/tge wins networking and scripting hands down
I cannot think of any AI engines that are doing it really well..
cept maybe some plugins made by the quake communities.
sorry for misreading that.
I guess I took the title as the main question.
08/10/2006 (2:21 pm)
Ok.well then Hands down Ogre is king in graphics and physics and OO design.
tse/tge wins networking and scripting hands down
I cannot think of any AI engines that are doing it really well..
cept maybe some plugins made by the quake communities.
sorry for misreading that.
I guess I took the title as the main question.
#7
08/10/2006 (2:28 pm)
The component doesn't have to be apart of an engine either. I know some components like Physics are available outside of any individual engine. I just want a 'best of the best' for each area. I know Josh Ritter loves Python, so what are the best python-related tools/components/etc.
#8
I checked out Axiom a while back. And Haddd, which is now Jade. I like Jade alot. But the truth is that I like the control of building my own engine and I don't want to use another engine. It's something about doing it from scratch myself and knowing what I'm working with. I can keep everything organised in a way that is efficient for the game I'm working on.
I have to be honest and say that as a game programmer... after I heard Torque could work with C# and MDX... I lost interest in using it over coding my own using C# and MDX. Sure... I'm not going to top a networked fps game that could be made with Torque, but I can make an action adventure game a hell of a lot faster on my own than working with Torque. Then again... i do have a previous carreer in making windows applications, so, making the editors and shit is not only easy but fun for me. So, I'm all about my own game engine now.
08/10/2006 (2:55 pm)
@JonathonI checked out Axiom a while back. And Haddd, which is now Jade. I like Jade alot. But the truth is that I like the control of building my own engine and I don't want to use another engine. It's something about doing it from scratch myself and knowing what I'm working with. I can keep everything organised in a way that is efficient for the game I'm working on.
I have to be honest and say that as a game programmer... after I heard Torque could work with C# and MDX... I lost interest in using it over coding my own using C# and MDX. Sure... I'm not going to top a networked fps game that could be made with Torque, but I can make an action adventure game a hell of a lot faster on my own than working with Torque. Then again... i do have a previous carreer in making windows applications, so, making the editors and shit is not only easy but fun for me. So, I'm all about my own game engine now.
#9
I can still remember in the classic asp and cgi days heading to "matt's script archives" for some sample code to hack around on!
08/10/2006 (3:01 pm)
I wouldn't recommend using them as your final product, but instead using them as guides to help you in your development. It's always good to see how someone did something and then try to improve it, than trying to always come up with everything yourself.I can still remember in the classic asp and cgi days heading to "matt's script archives" for some sample code to hack around on!
#10
you will find many new interesting roadblocks regardless of your past experience.
not to say that you are better off using a pre-packaged something.
but honestly there is ALOT of framework that goes into these applications.
alot of core components to develop.
I have created a few of my own engines.
one of which I use today for work and it is in the market.
looking back, it was the right choice for the reasons Anton has provided. (control of the flow to follow the design)
I did consider torque when I started but, it really was/is overkill for the needs.
but now I just want to work with the stuff I want to work with.
I dont want to work on every single little piece of foundation/framework.
I just want to work with graphics, physics and input usage.
so today, I think I am done putting together engines.
and I will simply find the cleanest simplest approach to using some prepared components
So today, I use Ogre coupled with the available OgreNewton.
I like OgreOde as well but, OgreNewton seems to have a shocking amount of performance available.
so I am playing with it.
08/10/2006 (3:45 pm)
As you develop your own engine.you will find many new interesting roadblocks regardless of your past experience.
not to say that you are better off using a pre-packaged something.
but honestly there is ALOT of framework that goes into these applications.
alot of core components to develop.
I have created a few of my own engines.
one of which I use today for work and it is in the market.
looking back, it was the right choice for the reasons Anton has provided. (control of the flow to follow the design)
I did consider torque when I started but, it really was/is overkill for the needs.
but now I just want to work with the stuff I want to work with.
I dont want to work on every single little piece of foundation/framework.
I just want to work with graphics, physics and input usage.
so today, I think I am done putting together engines.
and I will simply find the cleanest simplest approach to using some prepared components
So today, I use Ogre coupled with the available OgreNewton.
I like OgreOde as well but, OgreNewton seems to have a shocking amount of performance available.
so I am playing with it.
Torque Owner Badguy
is such a complex beast, I dont think there are any "Free" ones at all.
for example, as good as torque is and tse as well.
they are still incomplete and need work (where is my magic create game button?)
so what your asking is a pretty loaded question.
I think because of the components you chose to list, you have limited your selection to 0
there are none that have all these components that I am aware of for free.
torque for example has mostly all this but its not free.
OpenSceneGraph: is missing some of these components.
Ogre: is missing some of these components
Nebula: is missing some of these components.
Yaki: is missing some of these components
OpenFrag: is missing some of these components
so your comparison should perhaps be:
what engine is as close to torque's capability as you can get for free?
due to Ogre's community and all the effort put forth by the people working with it.
I would have to say it is the closest. (lots of stuff you can plugin to get it there)