Managed Torque Game Engine?!?!?
by Anton Bursch · in General Discussion · 08/06/2006 (5:02 am) · 24 replies
Migrating Game Technology from Native to Managed Code
Speaker: Josh Williams, GarageGames
GarageGames, in collaboration with the Microsoft XNA group, recently ported its full-featured game engine to managed code for Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Xbox 360. In this session, Josh Williams and the GarageGames XNA engineering team dive into the technical issues encountered while successfully porting a complex suite of game technologies from C++ to C#, .NET, and the XNA Framework. Attendees will walk away with a good understanding of what architectural and low-level code changes are required to create large, full-featured, high-performance managed code bases. The GarageGames team will discuss lessons from the trenches, technical design strategies and their trade-offs, performance statistics, and more.
... i'm speachless...
... ok, is this completed conversion of TGE going to be available to licensees?
Speaker: Josh Williams, GarageGames
GarageGames, in collaboration with the Microsoft XNA group, recently ported its full-featured game engine to managed code for Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Xbox 360. In this session, Josh Williams and the GarageGames XNA engineering team dive into the technical issues encountered while successfully porting a complex suite of game technologies from C++ to C#, .NET, and the XNA Framework. Attendees will walk away with a good understanding of what architectural and low-level code changes are required to create large, full-featured, high-performance managed code bases. The GarageGames team will discuss lessons from the trenches, technical design strategies and their trade-offs, performance statistics, and more.
... i'm speachless...
... ok, is this completed conversion of TGE going to be available to licensees?
About the author
I design and direct games for Somatic Vision. We primarily make games for use with biofeedback, but our latest game, Tropical Heat, a jet ski racing game, is for regular gamers and is available on PC/Mac and will be available on ipad and iphone soon.
#2
It sounds like the migration represents a significant effort by the Garage Games guys. If that's the case, they probably should require an additional license for it. I look forward to hearing more about this very cool development. Thanks for posting this.
08/06/2006 (6:24 am)
@AntonIt sounds like the migration represents a significant effort by the Garage Games guys. If that's the case, they probably should require an additional license for it. I look forward to hearing more about this very cool development. Thanks for posting this.
#3
08/06/2006 (6:32 am)
I will be one serious happy coder if I get my hands on this. I am not a c++ coder of any real experience. I started with Java and continued over to C#. Most of my game coding has been scripting or with c# and managed c++. I would LOVE to have Torque in a managed version. 
#5
08/06/2006 (8:30 am)
Cool, a 100% managed TGE would work nicely with Microsoft's IronPython ... I would be very interested in some details on this... especially, if it runs on Mono (the dedicated server stuff that is) 
#6
08/06/2006 (9:02 am)
For those who don't understand the importance of .Net, I suggest a copy of "Understanding .NET, A Tutorial and Analysis", by David Chappell. I found it very useful. In a nutshell, .NET is the future for Microsoft. 
#7
08/06/2006 (9:37 am)
Wow. That is very, very cool! I want to know more about it, NOW! 
#8
.net is windows only. I make games for all 3 platforms. How is this going to effect my workflow?
Or am I going to have to stick with the curent version of torque and just add mods to it in order to continue working with this engine on my chosen platforms?
Sorry for the newbie questions, but they are my concerns.
08/06/2006 (10:12 am)
What I want to know is if .net and mac/linux will play nice together across the net?.net is windows only. I make games for all 3 platforms. How is this going to effect my workflow?
Or am I going to have to stick with the curent version of torque and just add mods to it in order to continue working with this engine on my chosen platforms?
Sorry for the newbie questions, but they are my concerns.
#9
08/06/2006 (11:02 am)
From the looks of it, it is a code conversion to XNA's .Net, which would seem to implicate it as Windows-centric (as oppoesed to Mono). However, there is also no indication that this is the defacto direction for the entire engine or future platform support. It is, however, a very strong boon to Windows developers who wish to use managed .NET code; and it may be a good thing for Mono developers as well, though that would have to be seen as more information comes about. I see it as a good thing, currently, for Windows developers and 360 developers.
#10
I think the last thing developers need is to be tunneled into the MS juggernaught.. MS .NET is the buggiest and most bloated piece of work out there. Games that have tried to use it as their backend (Horizons anyone?) ended up lagged to hell and having all kinds of memory leaks and server problems.
Yes I know MS will more and more focus on driving technology into MS proprietary systems but damn... I tried to write a simple IRC application in .NET.. within 30 minutes the chat queue was so backed up it would take 30 seconds to recieve tells..
Think it's just me? Here is a tidbit for you.. Before AC2 went down the tubes it had the worst chat engine problems of any MMO. There was over 6 months post release that you pretty much could not use guild chat... Guess what they ran as their chat backend?? Thats right, .NET driven MS chat servers...
Anyways to each his own.. I'm not a big fan of MS and I hope that monopoly laws keep them from shutting out c++ and c# developers from the windows platform.
EDIT:
Hey as a PS just a props to GG for gettign on the MS bandwagon though. This is a big feather in their cap to work with MS integration. I may not believe in the MS product line myself but it certainly shows that GG is dedicated to the future of this platform and their products.. Grats guys I am sure this took a ton of hard work.
08/06/2006 (11:31 am)
Ugh...I think the last thing developers need is to be tunneled into the MS juggernaught.. MS .NET is the buggiest and most bloated piece of work out there. Games that have tried to use it as their backend (Horizons anyone?) ended up lagged to hell and having all kinds of memory leaks and server problems.
Yes I know MS will more and more focus on driving technology into MS proprietary systems but damn... I tried to write a simple IRC application in .NET.. within 30 minutes the chat queue was so backed up it would take 30 seconds to recieve tells..
Think it's just me? Here is a tidbit for you.. Before AC2 went down the tubes it had the worst chat engine problems of any MMO. There was over 6 months post release that you pretty much could not use guild chat... Guess what they ran as their chat backend?? Thats right, .NET driven MS chat servers...
Anyways to each his own.. I'm not a big fan of MS and I hope that monopoly laws keep them from shutting out c++ and c# developers from the windows platform.
EDIT:
Hey as a PS just a props to GG for gettign on the MS bandwagon though. This is a big feather in their cap to work with MS integration. I may not believe in the MS product line myself but it certainly shows that GG is dedicated to the future of this platform and their products.. Grats guys I am sure this took a ton of hard work.
#11
I think that the more flavors of Torque there are the better. Everyone here comes from a different part of the coding world and some of us are from the Microsoft end of it. I think that replacing native with managed is rediculous and isn't what is happening with this.
I think that managed torque would be great for indies. Anything that can speed up development is great to me. Time == money. Indies need all the short cuts they can get. If I have to take a speed hit while taking a massive speed boost from accelerated dev time, it's only a matter of balance then. If it works, great, if not, great.
08/06/2006 (3:15 pm)
@Flybynight StudiosI think that the more flavors of Torque there are the better. Everyone here comes from a different part of the coding world and some of us are from the Microsoft end of it. I think that replacing native with managed is rediculous and isn't what is happening with this.
I think that managed torque would be great for indies. Anything that can speed up development is great to me. Time == money. Indies need all the short cuts they can get. If I have to take a speed hit while taking a massive speed boost from accelerated dev time, it's only a matter of balance then. If it works, great, if not, great.
#12
I'd read this, but the fact that Torque has already been converted was not known. Tricksy GG. :P
08/06/2006 (3:34 pm)
Ahhhh, the first words about this in this thread hereI'd read this, but the fact that Torque has already been converted was not known. Tricksy GG. :P
#13
08/06/2006 (7:38 pm)
Can't you feel the excitement brewing on this!?
#14
08/06/2006 (7:51 pm)
I thought real programmers only used C++ Pat ;)
#17
axiomengine.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
I'm terribly excited to see GG moving in this direction. I wonder if a C# version is ahead for just TGE, or for both TGE and TSE?
08/07/2006 (1:50 pm)
BTW, just to point those who think a .net solution can't be cross-platform, the AXIOM open-source game engine is entirely coded using C# in .net 2.0 and is fully cross-platform supporting OSX, Windows, and Linux solutions with DirectX and OpenGL.axiomengine.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
I'm terribly excited to see GG moving in this direction. I wonder if a C# version is ahead for just TGE, or for both TGE and TSE?
#18
08/07/2006 (2:04 pm)
Did you read the press release? Look closer and it should be fairly obvious.
#19
Axiom itself is still in development, so rumours they it isn't are incorrect.
08/07/2006 (2:11 pm)
Which press release? Link it so we're on the same page. A new engine has come from it and a new platform. RealmForge used to be based on Axiom, and they got bought out so are actually developing a commercial solution which is still a C# engine. www.visual3d.net/Axiom itself is still in development, so rumours they it isn't are incorrect.
#20
08/07/2006 (2:16 pm)
The one posted at the very top of the thread. 
Torque Owner Bryce
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