Mmorpg
by Chris Kaleki · in Torque Game Builder · 06/07/2006 (7:31 am) · 8 replies
I am currently working on the game design for Pokemon Online (http://pokemonol.net); a MMORPG that I would like to create. Is it possible to use the Torque GameBuilder to make MMORPG's in 2D? If it is possible how would I begin making it? Is there a tutorial for how to make simple 2D RPG's or MMORPG's using TGB? Does anyone know other game developers/engines that would be able to create a MMORPG?
Before I started using Torque I tried Multimedia Fusion (http://www.clickteam.com). The only problem was that when more than five players connected to the game it became extremely slow and sometimes even crashed. Could TGB be able to support a lot of players if it can be used to create a MMORPG? Here is a screenshot of my project so far: http://396paisley.com/images/untitl~3.gif
Before I started using Torque I tried Multimedia Fusion (http://www.clickteam.com). The only problem was that when more than five players connected to the game it became extremely slow and sometimes even crashed. Could TGB be able to support a lot of players if it can be used to create a MMORPG? Here is a screenshot of my project so far: http://396paisley.com/images/untitl~3.gif
About the author
#2
Welcome to the forums.
Just so you know, you probably don't want to make cross-posts in the future -- just posting in the appropriate area is usually good enough (the Torque Game Builder section is indeed the correct area for this question).
The difference between multiplayer online RPGs (such as Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Sacred, etc) and *massively* multiplayer online RPGs is that *massively* multiplayer games use multiple servers operating in sync to handle concurrent connection numbers in the thousands.
However, this is well outside the realm of most people's capabilities to create. Multi-server systems are incredibly complex and very error-prone (hence why duping is a commonly rampant problem in multi-server massively multiplayer games).
A good rule of thumb for creating your game is that a single server can generally handle no more than a hundred users. If you are going to have more than 100 concurrent users in the same gamespace, then you need multiple servers to handle that gamespace. Keep in mind, this is only a rule of thumb, but it's a good one to go by.
I used to help administrate a very popular free MPORPG called "Odyssey Online Classic". Both the client and server were written in Visual Basic 6, and it could handle about 60-70 users before things started to get unplayable. I remember nights when the connection count was pushing 90 -- but that was rare.
That was a very popular game which had taken years to build up a user base that large. For most people's MPORPGs, it will be a *long time* before they build up a user base of more than 50 concurrent users. My general advice to people is just to make it, not worrying about handling more than 50 or so users and crossing the "massively multiplayer" bridge when you have that many users, either by just adding other servers for people to connect to and play in a seperate gamespace, or by investing in a professional multi-server-single-gamespace network solution.
TGB is just a graphics engine, and it can have any networking engine attached to the back-end. By default, it comes with TorqueNET Lite attached as its network library. I'm not very familiar with this network library, but perhaps someone more informed about it can make a statement as to how many concurrent users it supports? From what little I know about it, I would guess that it could pretty easily support at least 40 concurrent players in the same game space. That should be more than enough to last you a year or two until you build up a good user base.
More information on what it entails to create a massively-multiplayer server system can be found in the book "Game Programming Gems 4" -- has an excellent chapter on the subject. Of course, the book "Massively Multiplayer Game Development", while hardcover, is also an excellent investment for anyone wanting to seriously create MMOs.
So in answer to your question, yes -- stock TGB can be used to create multiplayer online RPGs that support 50 or so connections (certainly no more than 100) in the same user space. If you want more concurrent connections in the same game space, then you need more servers, and that generally means more money, and a *whole* lot more complexity.
Sorry for the long reply, but I hope that you take the time to read it carefully and understand it. I've been doing this stuff for years, and while I'm not an expert on the subject, I do have some real experience in the matter.
Respectfully,
clint
06/07/2006 (9:14 am)
Hi Chris!Welcome to the forums.
Just so you know, you probably don't want to make cross-posts in the future -- just posting in the appropriate area is usually good enough (the Torque Game Builder section is indeed the correct area for this question).
Quote:Before I started using Torque I tried Multimedia Fusion (http://www.clickteam.com). The only problem was that when more than five players connected to the game it became extremely slow and sometimes even crashed.
The difference between multiplayer online RPGs (such as Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Sacred, etc) and *massively* multiplayer online RPGs is that *massively* multiplayer games use multiple servers operating in sync to handle concurrent connection numbers in the thousands.
However, this is well outside the realm of most people's capabilities to create. Multi-server systems are incredibly complex and very error-prone (hence why duping is a commonly rampant problem in multi-server massively multiplayer games).
A good rule of thumb for creating your game is that a single server can generally handle no more than a hundred users. If you are going to have more than 100 concurrent users in the same gamespace, then you need multiple servers to handle that gamespace. Keep in mind, this is only a rule of thumb, but it's a good one to go by.
I used to help administrate a very popular free MPORPG called "Odyssey Online Classic". Both the client and server were written in Visual Basic 6, and it could handle about 60-70 users before things started to get unplayable. I remember nights when the connection count was pushing 90 -- but that was rare.
That was a very popular game which had taken years to build up a user base that large. For most people's MPORPGs, it will be a *long time* before they build up a user base of more than 50 concurrent users. My general advice to people is just to make it, not worrying about handling more than 50 or so users and crossing the "massively multiplayer" bridge when you have that many users, either by just adding other servers for people to connect to and play in a seperate gamespace, or by investing in a professional multi-server-single-gamespace network solution.
Quote:Could TGB be able to support a lot of players if it can be used to create a MMORPG?
TGB is just a graphics engine, and it can have any networking engine attached to the back-end. By default, it comes with TorqueNET Lite attached as its network library. I'm not very familiar with this network library, but perhaps someone more informed about it can make a statement as to how many concurrent users it supports? From what little I know about it, I would guess that it could pretty easily support at least 40 concurrent players in the same game space. That should be more than enough to last you a year or two until you build up a good user base.
More information on what it entails to create a massively-multiplayer server system can be found in the book "Game Programming Gems 4" -- has an excellent chapter on the subject. Of course, the book "Massively Multiplayer Game Development", while hardcover, is also an excellent investment for anyone wanting to seriously create MMOs.
So in answer to your question, yes -- stock TGB can be used to create multiplayer online RPGs that support 50 or so connections (certainly no more than 100) in the same user space. If you want more concurrent connections in the same game space, then you need more servers, and that generally means more money, and a *whole* lot more complexity.
Sorry for the long reply, but I hope that you take the time to read it carefully and understand it. I've been doing this stuff for years, and while I'm not an expert on the subject, I do have some real experience in the matter.
Respectfully,
clint
#3
Can I also ask can Torque support multi-server online games?
07/01/2009 (6:42 am)
I am also a bit new to all this, Can I also ask can Torque support multi-server online games?
#4
@Chris: Do you own the rights to Pokemon to be making a game for it? If not, you're setting yourself up for legal issues such as a cease-and-desist order and shutting down of your project. These results occur regardless of whether you're looking to make a profit or not, and you're far from the first person to propose or attempt this kind of project under the Pokemon banner over the years. The fact that they aren't around says something.
@Ben: Torque engines are being used in a number of MMOs, and can be configured as you ask (as they would need to be, in order to be used for an MMO).
More information can be found here. It's a posting on how to design and form a team to make an MMO (or any game, really), as well as about a hundred links to articles, forum posts, and other information that can help you out with making an MMO.
07/01/2009 (7:33 am)
Quote:I am currently working on the game design for Pokemon Online
@Chris: Do you own the rights to Pokemon to be making a game for it? If not, you're setting yourself up for legal issues such as a cease-and-desist order and shutting down of your project. These results occur regardless of whether you're looking to make a profit or not, and you're far from the first person to propose or attempt this kind of project under the Pokemon banner over the years. The fact that they aren't around says something.
Quote:Can I also ask can Torque support multi-server online games?
@Ben: Torque engines are being used in a number of MMOs, and can be configured as you ask (as they would need to be, in order to be used for an MMO).
More information can be found here. It's a posting on how to design and form a team to make an MMO (or any game, really), as well as about a hundred links to articles, forum posts, and other information that can help you out with making an MMO.
#5
But thanks for the answer on the second bit.
07/01/2009 (7:38 am)
I have no idea where the hell you got Pokemon from as I said nothing about them? :SBut thanks for the answer on the second bit.
#6
07/01/2009 (7:40 am)
@Ben: Sorry, meant to type the name of the original poster, who is asking about that. It probably would help to not get so twisted about it as well :)
#8
07/02/2009 (8:36 am)
@Ben: No problem. If you come across resource links you think can add to that thread, by all means feel free to post them there! 
Torque Owner Hege Berntsen
"Can i make a MMORPG with Torque": Yes
"Other game devolers/engines that can create a MMORPG": Realm Crafter
I have looked at them both, and as a noob to game making - here is my conclusion:
*Easyer to make with Realm Crafter, then with Torque.
*Games made in Realm Crafter often look like other Realm Crafter games.
*Realm Crafter is more limitid when it comes several things.