Upgrade to commercial license?
by CliffyC · in Torque Game Builder · 05/27/2006 (3:29 pm) · 29 replies
Anyone of you is upgrading to commercial license before June 7th? and Why?
#2
05/27/2006 (5:11 pm)
As far as I know, TGB is going into final release June 7. Yup, she's almost done! Aw yeah. 
#3
05/27/2006 (5:29 pm)
If I had the cash to do it I would, just because of the vastly huge difference in the price between now and then. I never thought I'd see a GG product reach near a thousand in price, but I'll worry about that when it comes to it. If I manage to break $250,000 then I think I'll be able to handle the price anyway. 
#4
05/27/2006 (6:11 pm)
I did so for several reasons. For one I plan to stick with this engine for a long time. The commercial license has less restrictions such as not needing to show a logo, no royalties no matter how much you sell, and probably more. So even though I really couldn't afford to, I upgraded. I was planning to anyway, just not so soon. Oh well, I consider it an investment especially when I factor in what I saved as an early adopter. 
#5
-Jeff Tunnell, GG
05/27/2006 (6:50 pm)
There are no royalties no matter how much you sell WITH ANY GG PRODUCT, Indie or Commercial. Please, please, please make sure that people understand this. -Jeff Tunnell, GG
#6
But can anyone further explain what is good to upgrade?
05/27/2006 (7:00 pm)
That's why I was a little bit confusing when Joe said "no royalties".But can anyone further explain what is good to upgrade?
#7
05/27/2006 (7:08 pm)
Ok that's good to know. I thought I read somewhere that over $250,000 there would be royalties. Is there a document that covers all this for TGB commercial? 
#8
The closest you come to "royalties" with a GG product (as I understand it and things have most likely changed with the landscape) is if you are approved for the XBox 360, GG helps you get on it, and you pay in installments based on how much people pay for your game and purchase it on Live Arcade. But once you and GG are paid up to Microsoft and in terms of the GG console agreement, you are free from that obligation for that title and can continue to make bank if you have a great game. As I said, it may not be a reality, but it is as I remember and as I recall. I do have a faulty memory, though, so please stand by for someone with a remaining brain cell to tell you The Truth.
-- EDIT --
Oh, and I just thought that I would say: no, I haven't upgraded, even though the price-point is tantalizing. Mainly because I have absolutely no reason to upgrade right now. If I release a major functionality code-pack like TLK for TGE, then I'll have a reason and I'll work with GG to figure out how best to work it. I doubt that will happen. I don't care about logos and I definitely don't make more than $250,000 a year (and if I did, I'd be more than happy to pay for commercial licenses and upgrades to every engine here; just like I own every engine here).
05/27/2006 (11:26 pm)
Um, no. The $250,000 clause simply says that you have to update to the commercial license because you're making bank and are a bit outside the "indie" league in terms of cash flow. It has nothing to do with royalties.The closest you come to "royalties" with a GG product (as I understand it and things have most likely changed with the landscape) is if you are approved for the XBox 360, GG helps you get on it, and you pay in installments based on how much people pay for your game and purchase it on Live Arcade. But once you and GG are paid up to Microsoft and in terms of the GG console agreement, you are free from that obligation for that title and can continue to make bank if you have a great game. As I said, it may not be a reality, but it is as I remember and as I recall. I do have a faulty memory, though, so please stand by for someone with a remaining brain cell to tell you The Truth.
-- EDIT --
Oh, and I just thought that I would say: no, I haven't upgraded, even though the price-point is tantalizing. Mainly because I have absolutely no reason to upgrade right now. If I release a major functionality code-pack like TLK for TGE, then I'll have a reason and I'll work with GG to figure out how best to work it. I doubt that will happen. I don't care about logos and I definitely don't make more than $250,000 a year (and if I did, I'd be more than happy to pay for commercial licenses and upgrades to every engine here; just like I own every engine here).
#9
05/27/2006 (11:32 pm)
@David. That is not true at all. XB360 is $10,000 for XBLA games until this Fall, when the price rises to $25,000. There are no royalties of any kind. If anybody wants to seriously consider XB360, I suggest contacting Jay Moore.
#10
05/28/2006 (12:22 am)
I have upgraded ....
#11
--Mark
05/28/2006 (6:29 am)
Jeff, the 10K, 25K is a cost per title going through GG to put out on XBLA, is this correct? Is there an FAQ with this info in it? --Mark
#12
05/28/2006 (7:10 am)
Not going through GG. Anybody. We do not have to publish the games using TSE360. We do not have a FAQ because things keep changing. TSE360 is for funded, approved developers for the XBLA channel. Like I said, if you fit that profile or soon will, contact Jay Moore.
#14
Ah yes, I knew that but stated it badly. The cue was "closest" since there are no royalties, but I was trying to think of the closest thing that could make people worry about royalties. My thoughts came from a news item that was there and then gone, most likely because the market changed or I don't know what to search for anymore (hedging bets on the last one). Basically, the idea said that if a XBLA title was approved, GG would work with the indie to pay off the full amount and then the indie was free once it was paid off. It wasn't a royalty so much as a payback. But it was as close of an example as I had to where people start getting strange royalty thoughts in their heads. Unfortunately, I almost perpetuated it by having scrambled brains as usual.
Sorry to inadvertantly spead disinformation. Luckily Jeff was there to kill it quick.
05/28/2006 (9:04 pm)
@JeffAh yes, I knew that but stated it badly. The cue was "closest" since there are no royalties, but I was trying to think of the closest thing that could make people worry about royalties. My thoughts came from a news item that was there and then gone, most likely because the market changed or I don't know what to search for anymore (hedging bets on the last one). Basically, the idea said that if a XBLA title was approved, GG would work with the indie to pay off the full amount and then the indie was free once it was paid off. It wasn't a royalty so much as a payback. But it was as close of an example as I had to where people start getting strange royalty thoughts in their heads. Unfortunately, I almost perpetuated it by having scrambled brains as usual.
Sorry to inadvertantly spead disinformation. Luckily Jeff was there to kill it quick.
#15
05/29/2006 (5:51 am)
Just popped my order off for the commercial license. No more splashscreen shinanegans (sp?) for me :)
#16
05/30/2006 (7:13 pm)
Personally even if I did have a commercial license I'd still put up GG's splashscreen for everything they've done.
#17
I just felt it could have been handled better. Besides, everyone's happy. I'm still a TGB user, and GG got some more money from me. Maybe that was there plan... ;)
05/31/2006 (12:02 am)
My problem is not the splash screen itself (I'm in complete agreement with you, TGB is a great product and GG and Melv have worked hard to get it where it is) but with the fact that GG changed the EULA so that the splash screen must be displayed for a full 4 seconds before the game starts. There was no warning this change was being implemented, and it was actually brought to my attention by someone else on another forum.I just felt it could have been handled better. Besides, everyone's happy. I'm still a TGB user, and GG got some more money from me. Maybe that was there plan... ;)
#18
Displaying a not moving logo for four seconds is an eternity! Aren't we allowed to let the user click it away if they want to? I have no problem either with letting people know that I have used TGB but this will annoy users from the first time they open my game. If you could provide at least some fancy video sequence. But if my computer doesn't move for full 4 seconds I get get suspecious if it will ever move again.
Btw, the EULA.txt provided with Beta4 does not say anything about 4 seconds.
05/31/2006 (1:30 am)
The wording "This game powered by Torque 2D."? This sentence no verb?Displaying a not moving logo for four seconds is an eternity! Aren't we allowed to let the user click it away if they want to? I have no problem either with letting people know that I have used TGB but this will annoy users from the first time they open my game. If you could provide at least some fancy video sequence. But if my computer doesn't move for full 4 seconds I get get suspecious if it will ever move again.
Btw, the EULA.txt provided with Beta4 does not say anything about 4 seconds.
#19
I did post a seperate thread about the splash screen issue here: www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=44812 So far there hasn't been an official response with regard to allowing the user to click through the splash screen.
Rather than wait for a response, I took the easy choice and bought the commercial license before the prices change.
05/31/2006 (2:02 am)
Check the EULA on the TGB product page.I did post a seperate thread about the splash screen issue here: www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=44812 So far there hasn't been an official response with regard to allowing the user to click through the splash screen.
Rather than wait for a response, I took the easy choice and bought the commercial license before the prices change.
#20
The good thing is: As none of my games ever gets anywere near completion I don't have to worry about that problem anyway...
05/31/2006 (3:38 am)
Oh no, there is no way that I could afford to spend $295 for just removing a logo.The good thing is: As none of my games ever gets anywere near completion I don't have to worry about that problem anyway...
Torque Owner Mark Kinkead