Change to the EULA?
by Philip Mansfield · in Torque Game Builder · 05/26/2006 (6:29 am) · 18 replies
I'm not sure when this change crept in, but:
Quote:4 (b) Licensee agrees to display a full screen, unmodified Torque 2D logo for no less than four full seconds in the start up sequence of any game created and released with the Engine.That seems a little excessive. Do we have to display a 4 second splash screen everytime the user starts the game? Can the user bash a key to skip past it?
#2
05/26/2006 (6:44 am)
Also the EULA needs to be updated to reference Torque Game Builder instead of T2D.
#3
Edit -> Here's the quote from the 1.02 download:
05/26/2006 (6:48 am)
I don't recall the time being specified in previous versions of the EULA which is what's prompted the question.Edit -> Here's the quote from the 1.02 download:
Quote:(b) Licensee agrees to display a full screen Torque 2D logo in the start up sequence of any game created and released with the Engine.No mention of a time limit at all. Unfortunately I don't have any other versions of TGB kicking about at the moment so I can't tell when this changed.
#4
The Thread that Wouldn't Die
But yeah, no time limit noted. I think I even talked about clicking through the logo in that thread--I didn't go back and read it...I just found it and went...
"Ah yes...I remember that..."
05/26/2006 (7:08 am)
I remember where my thoughts just came from:The Thread that Wouldn't Die
But yeah, no time limit noted. I think I even talked about clicking through the logo in that thread--I didn't go back and read it...I just found it and went...
"Ah yes...I remember that..."
#5
05/26/2006 (1:33 pm)
There was never a time limit, and my word. 4 seconds is a looooong pause to force a gamer to stare at a logo. I was thinking perhaps 1 or 2 seconds but *4* ? In that time they might start to think the game stopped working, or maybe TGB games are just "slow" to start up. Well, if anyone manages to sell games with this handicap I hope they sell enough to afford the commercial license and remove it. 
#6
On average, you will have to wait a lot more than 4 seconds before you get to the skipable loadup screens...
4 Seconds is a really short time, even when you're impatient to start a game...
If you have an xbox, and Burnout Revenge, fire it up and time how long it takes before you can skip stuff.
Sheesh, GG are giving you solid tools to make games, at very, very honest prices, and you take them to task for wanting some exposure ? e.g. It's a business, they sell their products cheap, so they need to move more units, simple maths, really.
Try to get some big boys middleware for a few different parts of your game (let's say AI, Physics, rendering engine just for starters) without being able to buy the right NOT to display their load screens : one of those licenses will cost you more than 10 times what the Commercial license for a GG product is, and you still have to display the Havok, AI Implant or Kynapse, Renderware, etc logo.
If you don't like the new EULA for the latest version, pony up for a commercial license which will rid you of the obligation of displaying GG logos.
The more things change, the more they stay the same....
05/26/2006 (1:57 pm)
Joe, you played any games on an xbox (or other console) lately ? Or some of the AAA PC titles ? On average, you will have to wait a lot more than 4 seconds before you get to the skipable loadup screens...
4 Seconds is a really short time, even when you're impatient to start a game...
If you have an xbox, and Burnout Revenge, fire it up and time how long it takes before you can skip stuff.
Sheesh, GG are giving you solid tools to make games, at very, very honest prices, and you take them to task for wanting some exposure ? e.g. It's a business, they sell their products cheap, so they need to move more units, simple maths, really.
Try to get some big boys middleware for a few different parts of your game (let's say AI, Physics, rendering engine just for starters) without being able to buy the right NOT to display their load screens : one of those licenses will cost you more than 10 times what the Commercial license for a GG product is, and you still have to display the Havok, AI Implant or Kynapse, Renderware, etc logo.
If you don't like the new EULA for the latest version, pony up for a commercial license which will rid you of the obligation of displaying GG logos.
The more things change, the more they stay the same....
#7
05/26/2006 (2:01 pm)
Just put up a cool "loading..." animation also on the same screen and the user will think nothing of 4 seconds. Plenty of time to pre-load all your scripts and datablocks.
#8
05/26/2006 (2:03 pm)
Any modifications to the GG loading screen has to be cleared with them before : by default, you CANNOT alter it in any way
#9
I would think putting up a "loading..." animation overlaid, even semi-transparent, in say top, bottom or corner of the screen does not constitute at all modifying the Torque logo.
05/26/2006 (2:10 pm)
Quote:Licensee agrees to display a full screen, unmodified Torque 2D logo for no less than four full seconds in the start up sequence of any game created and released with the Engine.
I would think putting up a "loading..." animation overlaid, even semi-transparent, in say top, bottom or corner of the screen does not constitute at all modifying the Torque logo.
#10
No actually I haven't played any console games lately ;D Look I meant no offense to GG, I know they put a ton of work into TGB and want to proudly display the branding. But it is simply annoying to everyone involved (esp. gamers). I realize the commercial license will remove the logo and with that in mind I just may have to "pony up".
05/26/2006 (2:14 pm)
@Nicolas Quijano No actually I haven't played any console games lately ;D Look I meant no offense to GG, I know they put a ton of work into TGB and want to proudly display the branding. But it is simply annoying to everyone involved (esp. gamers). I realize the commercial license will remove the logo and with that in mind I just may have to "pony up".
#11
2. Convince people that 4 seconds is too long and that upgrading to a commercial license is good.
3. $$$
I'm in the wrong business.
05/26/2006 (2:21 pm)
1. Make game engine.2. Convince people that 4 seconds is too long and that upgrading to a commercial license is good.
3. $$$
I'm in the wrong business.
#12
Not that I'm writing the next WoW or anything else to make them wish they had a logo on it, but $295 is not a lot to pay to get rid of the potential headaches involved in allowing the user to skip past the screen.
And as it happens, I have Burnout Revenge on the 360, and it drives me nuts that I have to sit through their forced screens. Same on any PC titles that have unskippable splash screens/intro sequences/cutscenes.
Before anyone says anything, I still reckon TGB is a great product, and I have no intention of jumping ship (like one or two others have in the past), but I do think that sneaking in this change without so much as 'by the way guys' is a little off.
05/26/2006 (2:23 pm)
If the splash screen cannot be skipped by the user pressing a key, then I'm definately plumping for the commercial license, and GG will then lose all branding priveleges on anything I produce.Not that I'm writing the next WoW or anything else to make them wish they had a logo on it, but $295 is not a lot to pay to get rid of the potential headaches involved in allowing the user to skip past the screen.
And as it happens, I have Burnout Revenge on the 360, and it drives me nuts that I have to sit through their forced screens. Same on any PC titles that have unskippable splash screens/intro sequences/cutscenes.
Before anyone says anything, I still reckon TGB is a great product, and I have no intention of jumping ship (like one or two others have in the past), but I do think that sneaking in this change without so much as 'by the way guys' is a little off.
#13
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=44789
For anyone else considering a commercial upgrade, now would be the time.
edit: I am now a proud licensee of a TGB commercial license ;)
Question: Is there a different EULA for the commercial version? Because I redownloaded and it still shows the logo clause.
I found this too, in case anyone didn't notice it :
05/26/2006 (2:36 pm)
Right it's not that TGB is bad and I wouldn't stop using it just because of this. But given the option I'd rather not show any logos, not even my own. And if I ever did they would surely be skippable.www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=44789
For anyone else considering a commercial upgrade, now would be the time.
edit: I am now a proud licensee of a TGB commercial license ;)
Question: Is there a different EULA for the commercial version? Because I redownloaded and it still shows the logo clause.
I found this too, in case anyone didn't notice it :
Quote:(c) Licensee agrees to include in the "About" box or in the credits screen: (i) a link to www.garagegames.com, and (ii) the wording "This game powered by Torque 2D."
#14
But I am also wondering what the harm could be in putting up a unobtrusive loading/progress bar somewhere on the TGB splash screen. The EULA says the LOGO (i.e. artwork) cannot be modified, and it must be displayed full screen. GG staff: is this cool or is it abusing the EULA to do something such as this?
05/26/2006 (3:12 pm)
Just as an aside: I recently watched some porn on DVD and the marketing / splash screens were totally egregious it seemed like it was a full minute before I could get to the movie menu. It makes 4 seconds seem not so bad. But I am considering commercial license upgrade before June 7th, mainly because it's such a good value/investment as an EA. But I am also wondering what the harm could be in putting up a unobtrusive loading/progress bar somewhere on the TGB splash screen. The EULA says the LOGO (i.e. artwork) cannot be modified, and it must be displayed full screen. GG staff: is this cool or is it abusing the EULA to do something such as this?
#15
I'm hoping a GG employee will pop along in the next couple of days and help clear this all up, otherwise I'll be grabbing a commercial license before the 7th.
05/26/2006 (3:35 pm)
Joe, I guess the download is exactly the same, hence the Indie EULA that's included. If you check the EULA from the commercial TGB product page, you'll see all those bits are chopped out.I'm hoping a GG employee will pop along in the next couple of days and help clear this all up, otherwise I'll be grabbing a commercial license before the 7th.
#16
Joe, there is indeed a separate Commercial license, though its not included with the download... the EULAs here on the website are always the definitive versions (eg look at the EULA on the Commercial product page).
05/31/2006 (9:00 pm)
FYI guys, this same discussion was happening in the Private forums. We replied there... yes, you can implement a click-through or keypress to get rid of the splash screen.Joe, there is indeed a separate Commercial license, though its not included with the download... the EULAs here on the website are always the definitive versions (eg look at the EULA on the Commercial product page).
#17
05/31/2006 (9:29 pm)
Thanks Josh I was wondering about that. 
#18
Currently I use the GarageGames logo in the spacescroller demo since that was what was in the original splash screen in the early betas.
06/01/2006 (9:37 am)
Will there be a Torque 2D logo included in the package to use in our splash screen?Currently I use the GarageGames logo in the spacescroller demo since that was what was in the original splash screen in the early betas.
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