Time, effort and code contributions ...
by Melv May · in Torque Game Engine · 04/04/2002 (11:11 am) · 23 replies
Hi Folks,
I predict that during the next six months or so I will have considerable amounts of time to dedicate to this community and it's projects as a whole. This pleases me greatly as I feel that I now have a very good focus for my hobby programming.
Although I have a very good job, I am interested in working within the games industry myself. I have no illusions as to the possible difficulties I would have doing this as I do not have a huge gaming portfolio.
During the last couple of months I have jumped head-first into developing handy little gizmos for the community on the premise that I will then understand the innards of the Torque engine much quicker and get an insight into the development and implementation of various game aspects within a AAA engine and this is working out pretty much like I expected.
I would now like to do this in a more constructive manner. I must admit that I've only observed some of the different areas to which the community is now focused, 'Realm Wars' for instance. Now although I am not particularly interested in a specific game implementation using the Torque, I am interested in understanding the methodologies and implementations that the Torque involves.
The reason for all this wordplay is so that I can phrase my question in context. I am interested in how somebody like myself could better contribute to the community itself. I am unsure as to the policy or procedures involved in working on code that could possibly be implemented within the torque core project. I don't want to say, "hey guys & gals, what shall I code for you today?" as I would probably get all sorts of tasks that were not focused.
Please forgive me if there is already an established procedure for this that I am unaware of, as I mentioned, I have spent the last couple of months (mostly during the wee-hours) wading through code rather than participating in what this community has to offer which I now fully intend to rectify.
In short, how do I get involved in writing code that is part of the core engine? I presume this is on a submission basis as per the Code Snipits? What do people really want and how do I find out?
Sorry if I've used up your bandwidth. :)
I predict that during the next six months or so I will have considerable amounts of time to dedicate to this community and it's projects as a whole. This pleases me greatly as I feel that I now have a very good focus for my hobby programming.
Although I have a very good job, I am interested in working within the games industry myself. I have no illusions as to the possible difficulties I would have doing this as I do not have a huge gaming portfolio.
During the last couple of months I have jumped head-first into developing handy little gizmos for the community on the premise that I will then understand the innards of the Torque engine much quicker and get an insight into the development and implementation of various game aspects within a AAA engine and this is working out pretty much like I expected.
I would now like to do this in a more constructive manner. I must admit that I've only observed some of the different areas to which the community is now focused, 'Realm Wars' for instance. Now although I am not particularly interested in a specific game implementation using the Torque, I am interested in understanding the methodologies and implementations that the Torque involves.
The reason for all this wordplay is so that I can phrase my question in context. I am interested in how somebody like myself could better contribute to the community itself. I am unsure as to the policy or procedures involved in working on code that could possibly be implemented within the torque core project. I don't want to say, "hey guys & gals, what shall I code for you today?" as I would probably get all sorts of tasks that were not focused.
Please forgive me if there is already an established procedure for this that I am unaware of, as I mentioned, I have spent the last couple of months (mostly during the wee-hours) wading through code rather than participating in what this community has to offer which I now fully intend to rectify.
In short, how do I get involved in writing code that is part of the core engine? I presume this is on a submission basis as per the Code Snipits? What do people really want and how do I find out?
Sorry if I've used up your bandwidth. :)
About the author
#2
I'm almost embarrased by such a clean, simple and helpful answer to my huge question.
Thanks.
04/04/2002 (11:30 am)
Thanks Frank,I'm almost embarrased by such a clean, simple and helpful answer to my huge question.
Thanks.
#3
Too bad you are not looking for a team ;)
04/04/2002 (11:35 am)
Hey Melv, do not be embarrased, you make a great job here !Too bad you are not looking for a team ;)
#4
Basically, AI (which I'm taking care of), Terrain enhancements (various, but things like wrapping, loading in patches etc), User interface enhancements (notable, skinning, new controls etc.
Content Pipeline (issues such as adding shaders, creating a decent documented file format, creating a modeller which supports Torque enhancements).
What area of the torque engine do you think could best benefit from your knowledge and effort? Almost any of the major parts of the engine that need effort will benefit and the guys are very receptive to adding in code that is a substantial improvement.
What i wanted to get the TCP to do was to try and find individuals like yourself who could handle the technical effort, but try and make it less of a burden by grouping people together.
Personally, I'd like to see us using more of the freely available content from the net. This (to my mind) involves replacing the .dts format with a fully documented file format, which any application can write to. Then replacing the dts loading code in game with this new flexible format. Then finally writing converters for other formats into the documented form.
I've also been speaking with James about shaders and the use of a shader language (not hardware, but more like a Q3 definition language) to define surface characteristics.
I'd suggest you look at either the content pipeline OR the terrain enhancements. But obviously thats entirely up to you. Either way, let everyone know, and hopefully we can all pitch in.
Phil.
04/04/2002 (11:37 am)
Melv, there are a few core issues that people seem to want covered. Those were the basic for the TCP projects (if you look in the forums list).Basically, AI (which I'm taking care of), Terrain enhancements (various, but things like wrapping, loading in patches etc), User interface enhancements (notable, skinning, new controls etc.
Content Pipeline (issues such as adding shaders, creating a decent documented file format, creating a modeller which supports Torque enhancements).
What area of the torque engine do you think could best benefit from your knowledge and effort? Almost any of the major parts of the engine that need effort will benefit and the guys are very receptive to adding in code that is a substantial improvement.
What i wanted to get the TCP to do was to try and find individuals like yourself who could handle the technical effort, but try and make it less of a burden by grouping people together.
Personally, I'd like to see us using more of the freely available content from the net. This (to my mind) involves replacing the .dts format with a fully documented file format, which any application can write to. Then replacing the dts loading code in game with this new flexible format. Then finally writing converters for other formats into the documented form.
I've also been speaking with James about shaders and the use of a shader language (not hardware, but more like a Q3 definition language) to define surface characteristics.
I'd suggest you look at either the content pipeline OR the terrain enhancements. But obviously thats entirely up to you. Either way, let everyone know, and hopefully we can all pitch in.
Phil.
#6
I'm just reading through some the TCP forums trying to understand the nature of how this kind of collaboration would actually work.
I agree Phil, there is a fair old selection of work here. I am going to spend the next day or two dedicated to choosing a particular aspect of the engine that I would like to work on. I'm going to have a good old surf of the forums and see if I can extract some information as to what exactly the problems are. Hopefully then, I will be able to devise a better plan.
Again, thanks for the advice.
04/04/2002 (11:47 am)
Thanks everyone,I'm just reading through some the TCP forums trying to understand the nature of how this kind of collaboration would actually work.
I agree Phil, there is a fair old selection of work here. I am going to spend the next day or two dedicated to choosing a particular aspect of the engine that I would like to work on. I'm going to have a good old surf of the forums and see if I can extract some information as to what exactly the problems are. Hopefully then, I will be able to devise a better plan.
Again, thanks for the advice.
#7
Are you interested in tweaks/upgrades to TGE or are you interested in working on an Editor?
Feel free to email me privately.
David
04/04/2002 (12:00 pm)
Hi Melv,Are you interested in tweaks/upgrades to TGE or are you interested in working on an Editor?
Feel free to email me privately.
David
#8
Phil.
04/04/2002 (12:10 pm)
Melv, once you decide, just put up a request for suggestions and I'm sure many people will pipe up :))Phil.
#9
Whatever I do, I would like it to be something that is really wanted/needed by the general consensus and not just the latest novelty.
What is the editor that you mentioned David?
Again, I value your advice, as always.
04/04/2002 (12:45 pm)
I would like to commit to something more long term than just tweaking things. Although tweaking can be satisfying, it just doesn't help anyone long term.Whatever I do, I would like it to be something that is really wanted/needed by the general consensus and not just the latest novelty.
What is the editor that you mentioned David?
Again, I value your advice, as always.
#10
I think the major area that's untouched (but still requested) is the terrain enhancements.
04/04/2002 (1:13 pm)
I also put some editor thoughts in my .plan yesterday...I think the major area that's untouched (but still requested) is the terrain enhancements.
#11
Torque's animation system is the best I've ever seen, with fluid control from one animation to the other.
I think this high sophisticated animation system would suffer by moving it to another format ..such as those employed in Quake 3 for instance.
04/04/2002 (1:57 pm)
Replacing the dts (animation) file format is kind of a no-no for me personally. Torque's animation system is the best I've ever seen, with fluid control from one animation to the other.
I think this high sophisticated animation system would suffer by moving it to another format ..such as those employed in Quake 3 for instance.
#12
There are a lot of 56k_er's out there still and the ones that like to game just know better to go up against broadbanders (not saying there aint a few that can hold ther own) but everyone likes singleplayer and monsters and bots are singleplayer.
04/04/2002 (2:00 pm)
Melv, if i had your brains, i would get more in volved in the ai ,torque needs a kick ass ai, and not just for bots but for monsters. I think that should be a priorty of any one capable doing stuff lke that.There are a lot of 56k_er's out there still and the ones that like to game just know better to go up against broadbanders (not saying there aint a few that can hold ther own) but everyone likes singleplayer and monsters and bots are singleplayer.
#13
04/04/2002 (2:01 pm)
Phil likes the features, he just doesn't like the way they're stored on disk. =)
#14
Btw, phil doesnt like the format ... not it's features :)
He thinks the format is a mess... and i think he's right... formats like MD2 are very simple and very good... (for the time it was)... you know have MD3 which has some nice features too and the format is very simple too... so what's planned by him is to do a simple format (like MD2,3) but, with the nice features we all like.. animation blending, shaders, etc
Am i right philly? :)
04/04/2002 (3:01 pm)
I dont think you should tell Melv what to do gary, Melv has been doing a great work since he joined and he will choose what is more comfortable for him and what he thinks would be better for TGE. Btw, phil doesnt like the format ... not it's features :)
He thinks the format is a mess... and i think he's right... formats like MD2 are very simple and very good... (for the time it was)... you know have MD3 which has some nice features too and the format is very simple too... so what's planned by him is to do a simple format (like MD2,3) but, with the nice features we all like.. animation blending, shaders, etc
Am i right philly? :)
#15
But its not. So its been an uphill struggle getting content.
My own thoughts are that if someone is going to write an editor and try and improve the content production pipeline, then its also going to require a re-write of the DTS internals to document whats going on. If thats the case, then why not go the whole hog and implement all of the modern features required, like shader definitions and other such things.
Gary: Dont worry about the AI, myself and Alex will have that covered. From monster to bot to advanced :)) Dont mind anyone pitching in, but it would be worthless duplicated effort to try and do what we're planning *which is pretty much all you'll need in almost all projects for AI*.
Terrain needs work
UI needs work
DTS->content pipe needs work
Anything else??
Phil.
04/04/2002 (3:42 pm)
Yeah, I dont propose losing any functionality when I talk about replacing DTS. If DTS was even reasonably documented, I'd probably live with just writing some tools for importing other formats.But its not. So its been an uphill struggle getting content.
My own thoughts are that if someone is going to write an editor and try and improve the content production pipeline, then its also going to require a re-write of the DTS internals to document whats going on. If thats the case, then why not go the whole hog and implement all of the modern features required, like shader definitions and other such things.
Gary: Dont worry about the AI, myself and Alex will have that covered. From monster to bot to advanced :)) Dont mind anyone pitching in, but it would be worthless duplicated effort to try and do what we're planning *which is pretty much all you'll need in almost all projects for AI*.
Terrain needs work
UI needs work
DTS->content pipe needs work
Anything else??
Phil.
#16
04/04/2002 (5:41 pm)
Water blocks are part of the "terrain entry" in your list, to be sure. Nonetheless, they do need to be made non-repetitive as an option.
#17
I think it would also be interesting for someone to add more technical features to torque, like bump mapping and other graphical/performance enhancements. I think that would help Torque evolve, and stay current for a longer period of time, and perhaps produce graphics to rival some of the newer games. I think that it will have to be done eventually, but if you dont want to go in that direction, that's perfectly fine.
I happily read, and will continue to read, every one of your posts and submissions Mr. May. :)
04/04/2002 (6:40 pm)
I agree 100% on the terrain and DTS comments that Phil made.I think it would also be interesting for someone to add more technical features to torque, like bump mapping and other graphical/performance enhancements. I think that would help Torque evolve, and stay current for a longer period of time, and perhaps produce graphics to rival some of the newer games. I think that it will have to be done eventually, but if you dont want to go in that direction, that's perfectly fine.
I happily read, and will continue to read, every one of your posts and submissions Mr. May. :)
#18
Vehicles still need some work, Tim Gift did an awesome job, but there are some things dealing with collision that could actually lag to the point of crashing with only 1 player in the game.
Doors, I think Badguy was working on this with worldcraft and probably could use some help especially now that we've all been advised to move to QuArK. But in my opinion having working doors would be a good additon to any game with buildings.
Environmental effects, Rain,snow,lightning etc. A few people did alot of work on this and got the current code working but from my observation could use a looking over to get it presentable.
many other small things that are just not working quite right.
just my opinion,
Bruce
BTW: I love the work you have been doing on the water Melv, way cool.
04/04/2002 (8:03 pm)
Responding to Phil's "anything else?", These are a few things that I can think of that could really use some improvement.Vehicles still need some work, Tim Gift did an awesome job, but there are some things dealing with collision that could actually lag to the point of crashing with only 1 player in the game.
Doors, I think Badguy was working on this with worldcraft and probably could use some help especially now that we've all been advised to move to QuArK. But in my opinion having working doors would be a good additon to any game with buildings.
Environmental effects, Rain,snow,lightning etc. A few people did alot of work on this and got the current code working but from my observation could use a looking over to get it presentable.
many other small things that are just not working quite right.
just my opinion,
Bruce
BTW: I love the work you have been doing on the water Melv, way cool.
#19
Id do it myself but it is way outa my league :/
04/04/2002 (8:25 pm)
Something that someone could create is the code to render shockwaves in the engine out of particles, like that was removed with the T2 code.Id do it myself but it is way outa my league :/
#20
There is no turning back.
Bwah-hah-hah-haaaaahhhhhh!!!!!
04/04/2002 (8:58 pm)
The way you pimped that fxReplicator code and then put a straight "smack down" on the fluid rendering code clearly shows you have the knowhow to contribute greatly to a "TORQUED" editor. There's been alot of buzz about this in the last week, and there is no escape now!!!There is no turning back.
Bwah-hah-hah-haaaaahhhhhh!!!!!
Torque 3D Owner Frank Bignone
Darkhand Studio