How good actually is this engine?
by Joe Hart · in Torque Game Engine · 05/23/2006 (10:21 am) · 25 replies
Now i stumbled across this site about 15 minutes ago and can't believe my luck. This looks like THE perfect engine for me.
Now i would just like to know if this engine is as good as it seems? Now i am planning on mainly creating an RTS game with the RTS starter kit. Now before i splash out $150. I want to know what i'm getting myself into.
My questions:
1. What kind of FPS do you get in an RTS using shaders?
2. What is the maximum poly count for a trooper?(to get good fps)
3. What is the maximum poly count for a building?(to get good fps)
4. What "Packs" are planned for The Torque engine?
5. With the FPS pack, can it handle large outdoor maps well? Like Battlefield 2.
6. Can i make and RPG on the scale of Morrowind with the Torque engine?
Hope i'm not being annoying :D
Now i would just like to know if this engine is as good as it seems? Now i am planning on mainly creating an RTS game with the RTS starter kit. Now before i splash out $150. I want to know what i'm getting myself into.
My questions:
1. What kind of FPS do you get in an RTS using shaders?
2. What is the maximum poly count for a trooper?(to get good fps)
3. What is the maximum poly count for a building?(to get good fps)
4. What "Packs" are planned for The Torque engine?
5. With the FPS pack, can it handle large outdoor maps well? Like Battlefield 2.
6. Can i make and RPG on the scale of Morrowind with the Torque engine?
Hope i'm not being annoying :D
#2
2. How long is a piece of string? Also hardware dependent but to give you a rough guide, definitely no more that 2000 poly's if you're planning on a big networkable game.
3. See answer to question 2.
4. Don't know, there's too many as it is.
5. Yes, as long as it's designed well.
6. That depends on you and your abilities. Morrowind was made by a large, wealthy company with 100's of employees. How can you expect to match the quality of a professional game dev company?
05/23/2006 (10:35 am)
1. Way too broad a question, also its hardware dependent. RTS kit doesn't have shaders by the way. If you're planning on making huge worlds you will need to implement clever level design, zones, LOD's and relatively low poly models.2. How long is a piece of string? Also hardware dependent but to give you a rough guide, definitely no more that 2000 poly's if you're planning on a big networkable game.
3. See answer to question 2.
4. Don't know, there's too many as it is.
5. Yes, as long as it's designed well.
6. That depends on you and your abilities. Morrowind was made by a large, wealthy company with 100's of employees. How can you expect to match the quality of a professional game dev company?
#3
Also how many games can i make with one purchase of the Indie game license. Do i have to pay for each game i make and sell?
05/23/2006 (10:39 am)
Thx, i probably going to buy this now, once i get more money.Also how many games can i make with one purchase of the Indie game license. Do i have to pay for each game i make and sell?
#4
Well i just want to know that i can make a game like Morrowind if i want.
05/23/2006 (10:40 am)
@Tim HeldnaWell i just want to know that i can make a game like Morrowind if i want.
#5
Check the licensing page for all details.
www.garagegames.com/pg/product/eula.php?id=1
05/23/2006 (10:46 am)
Quote:Ok.
Well i just want to know that i can make a game like Morrowind if i want.
Quote:Unlimited, no.
Also how many games can i make with one purchase of the Indie game license. Do i have to pay for each game i make and sell?
Check the licensing page for all details.
www.garagegames.com/pg/product/eula.php?id=1
#6
Actually, a single TGE Indie license will allow you to make as many games as you want, as long as your yearly total company income is less than $250,000. So, technically, the number of titles you can theoretically create with an indie license is unlimited. Completing and selling them is another matter, though. ;)
There are some important provisions on the Indie license though. With Indie, you must display an approved Garage Games Torque Game Engine logo page and you cannot market non-game products like educational software, professional simulators, etc. Also, with Indie, you can't do work-for-hire/contractor Torque jobs for other individuals or companies.
If you need any of those additional features/privileges, you will need to upgrade to the TGE Commercial license. Both SDKs are identical, but commercial licencees are legally able to do more with their TGE license.
One more thing, with either license, you will need to purchase one licensed seat for each programmer that will have access to the Torque C++ Engine code.
[Edit: fixed a typo]
05/23/2006 (11:22 am)
@Joe,Actually, a single TGE Indie license will allow you to make as many games as you want, as long as your yearly total company income is less than $250,000. So, technically, the number of titles you can theoretically create with an indie license is unlimited. Completing and selling them is another matter, though. ;)
There are some important provisions on the Indie license though. With Indie, you must display an approved Garage Games Torque Game Engine logo page and you cannot market non-game products like educational software, professional simulators, etc. Also, with Indie, you can't do work-for-hire/contractor Torque jobs for other individuals or companies.
If you need any of those additional features/privileges, you will need to upgrade to the TGE Commercial license. Both SDKs are identical, but commercial licencees are legally able to do more with their TGE license.
One more thing, with either license, you will need to purchase one licensed seat for each programmer that will have access to the Torque C++ Engine code.
[Edit: fixed a typo]
#7
I'm not going to exceed $250,000 since i'm a teenager. I only make games to make a little money on the side. I have no problem with displaying the logo at the beginning of the game, i always give credit to the engine i use anyway.
Also buying extra copies should be no problem since i am the only one who works on my games. My mates just give me ideas and test my games. And i don't really mind not doing work for other people, i'd probably never get it done in time.
05/23/2006 (1:10 pm)
Thanks Aaron.I'm not going to exceed $250,000 since i'm a teenager. I only make games to make a little money on the side. I have no problem with displaying the logo at the beginning of the game, i always give credit to the engine i use anyway.
Also buying extra copies should be no problem since i am the only one who works on my games. My mates just give me ideas and test my games. And i don't really mind not doing work for other people, i'd probably never get it done in time.
#8
'Cause a lot of indie licensees would be breaking the terms of the license if this is true.
Joe, only the people who will actually access the source code (the C++) of TGE need a license : artists don't need a license, as well as someone who would only do scripting. That said, doesn't mean they shouldn't get one, hehe.
Also, the indie license is NOT a transferable seat, but tied to particular individual. Again, not transferable.
05/23/2006 (1:35 pm)
Aaron, the bit about not being able to do work for hire with the indie license is news to me. Care to point me at something definite about this ?'Cause a lot of indie licensees would be breaking the terms of the license if this is true.
Joe, only the people who will actually access the source code (the C++) of TGE need a license : artists don't need a license, as well as someone who would only do scripting. That said, doesn't mean they shouldn't get one, hehe.
Also, the indie license is NOT a transferable seat, but tied to particular individual. Again, not transferable.
#9
I believe the issue came up a short while back (two months, maybe) where commercial entities were targeting indie licensees rather than purchasing a commercial seat, simply because it was cheaper. I think that the correct way to do such a prospect would be to have the company purchase a seat for the indie developer in question. At least that is how I remember the middle part of the topic (it was a tangent in the middle of another topic, IIRC).
05/23/2006 (1:42 pm)
@NicolasI believe the issue came up a short while back (two months, maybe) where commercial entities were targeting indie licensees rather than purchasing a commercial seat, simply because it was cheaper. I think that the correct way to do such a prospect would be to have the company purchase a seat for the indie developer in question. At least that is how I remember the middle part of the topic (it was a tangent in the middle of another topic, IIRC).
#10
I just watched your SW fanfilm. Nice. It looks like you definitely have the 'Indie' spirit. Torque is a great platform for expressing your own vision and with access to the source code, you have the potential to extend it to do almost anything you can imagine.
I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Aaron E.
05/23/2006 (1:45 pm)
Joe,I just watched your SW fanfilm. Nice. It looks like you definitely have the 'Indie' spirit. Torque is a great platform for expressing your own vision and with access to the source code, you have the potential to extend it to do almost anything you can imagine.
I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Aaron E.
#11
I'd better get saving for this!
EDIT:
Oh i have to ask, can you make 2D games in TGE aswell as 3D. Or do I have to buy the 2D version aswell?
05/23/2006 (1:56 pm)
Thanks Aaron. :)I'd better get saving for this!
EDIT:
Oh i have to ask, can you make 2D games in TGE aswell as 3D. Or do I have to buy the 2D version aswell?
#12
One more thing, I just checked and Machimina (sp) doesn't seem to fit within the Indie license. So if that's something you want to do in the future, you may want to contact Davey Jackson at Garage Games (daveyj@garagegames.com). Just games is fine, otherwise, you'll need Commercial.
Here is the page that mentions this . . .
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=38812
05/23/2006 (2:01 pm)
Joe, One more thing, I just checked and Machimina (sp) doesn't seem to fit within the Indie license. So if that's something you want to do in the future, you may want to contact Davey Jackson at Garage Games (daveyj@garagegames.com). Just games is fine, otherwise, you'll need Commercial.
Here is the page that mentions this . . .
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=38812
#13
It took me a while to find the a reference to Torque contractor stuff, but here's a link for it . . .
www.garagegames.com/blogs/34977/8971
You can find Davey J's post on this issue near the bottom of that thread. Here's the meat of it . . .
05/23/2006 (2:05 pm)
Nicolas,It took me a while to find the a reference to Torque contractor stuff, but here's a link for it . . .
www.garagegames.com/blogs/34977/8971
You can find Davey J's post on this issue near the bottom of that thread. Here's the meat of it . . .
Quote:Note: If you are doing ANY contract work with Torque or are working on a simulation, serious or educational game, please contact me to upgrade your license.
#15
I agree, Jeff's answer sounds pretty rock solid. But that was a while ago. The most recent GG statement comes from Davey Jackson (from January 2006) . . .
So there seems to be some room for confusion on this. It may be an issue that needs additional clarification.
[Edit: changed two words]
05/23/2006 (2:19 pm)
Hi David,I agree, Jeff's answer sounds pretty rock solid. But that was a while ago. The most recent GG statement comes from Davey Jackson (from January 2006) . . .
Quote:"Indie licenses" can be used only by individuals, earning under $250,000, to make "Games for entertainment.' Note: This is different from educational games, simulations, serious games, VR projects, machinima projects ect. If an 'indie' grows beyond the $250k mark they must upgrade their licenses to commercial. Also, schools DO NOT qualify for 'indie' pricing, as they are large institutions. If a school has not arraigned an "educational" or "research" license with us, they must purchase "commercial" licenses.
"Commercial licenses" can be used by anyone for commercial games/projects, educational games, simulations, serious games, VR projects, machinima or schools that do not have an "educational" and/or "research" license. Commercial licenses allow for unlimited distribution, royalty free, with no further obligation to GarageGames (GG). Commercial licenses are the ONLY licenses other than "research licenses" that can use Torque for educational games, simulations, serious games, VR projects, machinima projects ect with our prior permission directly from GG.
So there seems to be some room for confusion on this. It may be an issue that needs additional clarification.
[Edit: changed two words]
#16
afaik, an indie licensee can do contract work for other indie licensees, or that's been the long standing understanding.
Just trying to clarify things, and possibly get an official response, as a blog post is certainly not the place to annnounce such a crucial change :)
05/23/2006 (2:19 pm)
Seems to be a contradiction in his post, as he mentions having the correct license for the work they're doing...afaik, an indie licensee can do contract work for other indie licensees, or that's been the long standing understanding.
Just trying to clarify things, and possibly get an official response, as a blog post is certainly not the place to annnounce such a crucial change :)
#17
05/23/2006 (2:29 pm)
Ah, I missed that clarification. I was still thinking of the original thoughts on it and Robert and Jeff's comments on Machinima being a genre of gaming, albeit a non-interactive one.
#18
I just checked the Indie and Commercial EULAs and didn't see any references to Contract work or Machinima. So, it's possible that those activities might be legal under the current verbage. But this probably needs official clarification. It may end up in the next EULA revision. :)
05/23/2006 (2:48 pm)
Nicolas,I just checked the Indie and Commercial EULAs and didn't see any references to Contract work or Machinima. So, it's possible that those activities might be legal under the current verbage. But this probably needs official clarification. It may end up in the next EULA revision. :)
#19
I missed your other question about 2D games. Yes, with a fair bit of effort, you can create your own 2D games in TGE. Using TGB would be a lot easier, though.
If I recall correctly, TGB started out as a modification of regular TGE -- a guy named Melv May started tinkering with the Torque code to give it more 2D features/gameplay functions. Now it's turned into a standalone product. And it looks very cool. :)
05/23/2006 (3:02 pm)
Joe,I missed your other question about 2D games. Yes, with a fair bit of effort, you can create your own 2D games in TGE. Using TGB would be a lot easier, though.
If I recall correctly, TGB started out as a modification of regular TGE -- a guy named Melv May started tinkering with the Torque code to give it more 2D features/gameplay functions. Now it's turned into a standalone product. And it looks very cool. :)
Associate David Montgomery-Blake
David MontgomeryBlake
2/3. It depends on your target hardware.
4. No body knows. There have been mention of a RPG one. Dreamer's group has released a MMO kit.
5/6. It does not support paged maps out of the box. A lot of work has been done on and with the terrain system in TGE, but it takes quite an overhaul to the terrain engine to do something so specific. It is not a simple drop-in solution.