wings 3d
by Jeff Highsmith · in Torque Game Engine · 04/03/2002 (11:41 am) · 12 replies
ok i know theres already a thread about this but i couldnt find the damn thing. is there a way to view all the recent posts im unaware of without digging through each forum?
anyways, i for one think that wings 3d is what the torque modeler should be built on. i have yet to see an open source modeler that looks as good. the gg communtity could fork it and upgrade as new releases come out as long as the eula doesnt change. this way, torque would always have its own version to build on.
the only big hole i see in wings is animation, and seeing how bjorn made the prog in four months, i dont see how adding animation could be TOO hard. as an aside, im going to check out anim8tor today, maybe thats the place to start looking at animation tools? i dont think its open source, but its worth asking the author about.
the same ideas might work with gimp too, i havent looked at the license yet though. with gimp and wings, gg would go a long way towards securing high quality, open source content creation tools. as someone on the other forum suggested, this would basically just leave audio to deal with.
i have received the first round of funding for my game, and the first order of business for me is the tools. my game will be particularly dependent on content creation tools, as its designed to allow the user to make his own content. i think a big step in making that feasible is providing free tools that are easy to use. the upshot of this is im willing to invest in these tools and donate them to the torque project.
that said, im going to need the communitys help in designing the tools. so, i would like to hear what the gg community would like to see added to wings or gimp for torque purposes. i was thinking plugins at first, then integrating them into the torque versions.
so, shoot away, what do wings and gimp need to meet the communitys needs?
anyways, i for one think that wings 3d is what the torque modeler should be built on. i have yet to see an open source modeler that looks as good. the gg communtity could fork it and upgrade as new releases come out as long as the eula doesnt change. this way, torque would always have its own version to build on.
the only big hole i see in wings is animation, and seeing how bjorn made the prog in four months, i dont see how adding animation could be TOO hard. as an aside, im going to check out anim8tor today, maybe thats the place to start looking at animation tools? i dont think its open source, but its worth asking the author about.
the same ideas might work with gimp too, i havent looked at the license yet though. with gimp and wings, gg would go a long way towards securing high quality, open source content creation tools. as someone on the other forum suggested, this would basically just leave audio to deal with.
i have received the first round of funding for my game, and the first order of business for me is the tools. my game will be particularly dependent on content creation tools, as its designed to allow the user to make his own content. i think a big step in making that feasible is providing free tools that are easy to use. the upshot of this is im willing to invest in these tools and donate them to the torque project.
that said, im going to need the communitys help in designing the tools. so, i would like to hear what the gg community would like to see added to wings or gimp for torque purposes. i was thinking plugins at first, then integrating them into the torque versions.
so, shoot away, what do wings and gimp need to meet the communitys needs?
About the author
#2
04/03/2002 (2:15 pm)
also, would anyone reading this have intimate knowledge of how mocap data is handled in 3dsmax? theres a plugin from motion analysis forget the name, but its simple mocap from recorded video. id be willing to cough up $ for a port of the plugin to wings 3d. i know the company might not like it, but that'd be pretty silly. "oh, hi, i ported your plugin to a free, open source modelling package, which could open up new markets for the product with exactly zero risk and zero investment from you" "why, why you rapscallion! you mendicant! out of my office! call security!" hehe.
#3
I don't that's what you're asking about however. I'm guessing you want to know if it restricts what you can do with your images like WC does. I am not 100%, but I'm 99.999% sure there should be absolutely no problems. Just like Photoshop wouldn't limit your usage of photos you've created, the authors of Gimp probably don't put nay such restrictions.
It's free software and it's intended to be free for use as well. I have never heard anyone mention anything about Gimp's EULA. I'm pretty sure all it would contain is what you get is what you get kinda clause. It's free software so if you have any problems, you aren't guaranteed that they will fix it.
04/03/2002 (3:17 pm)
The Gimp is licensed under the GPL. I.e. you can take the source and do whatever you want as long as you release any changes.I don't that's what you're asking about however. I'm guessing you want to know if it restricts what you can do with your images like WC does. I am not 100%, but I'm 99.999% sure there should be absolutely no problems. Just like Photoshop wouldn't limit your usage of photos you've created, the authors of Gimp probably don't put nay such restrictions.
It's free software and it's intended to be free for use as well. I have never heard anyone mention anything about Gimp's EULA. I'm pretty sure all it would contain is what you get is what you get kinda clause. It's free software so if you have any problems, you aren't guaranteed that they will fix it.
#4
man, i was playing with wings 3d, and i love it! ive played around with maya learning, gmax, etc., but this is the only app that i EVER put the first tut aside 2/3 of the way through just to start playing. its very easy to use, i was going wacko with the extrude, bevel, etc. i cant speak for power (bc i dont know enough about 3d apps), but ease of use is definitely there. this thing is juicy, im going to play with it some more
04/03/2002 (3:35 pm)
im equally sure, just bc its open source, etc. what im after really is tools that cant be taken from the torque community, hence the forking thing. that way you point to the eula that DID allow open, free torque tools. man, i was playing with wings 3d, and i love it! ive played around with maya learning, gmax, etc., but this is the only app that i EVER put the first tut aside 2/3 of the way through just to start playing. its very easy to use, i was going wacko with the extrude, bevel, etc. i cant speak for power (bc i dont know enough about 3d apps), but ease of use is definitely there. this thing is juicy, im going to play with it some more
#5
These are all great ideas. There is now another group working on using the Torque as the basis for at least a building editor, but ath does not solve the problem of a 3D shape editor.
If you are serious about getting this project off the ground, please contact me, and we'll see if there is any way to help you.
Jeff Tunnell GG
04/03/2002 (7:30 pm)
Jeff,These are all great ideas. There is now another group working on using the Torque as the basis for at least a building editor, but ath does not solve the problem of a 3D shape editor.
If you are serious about getting this project off the ground, please contact me, and we'll see if there is any way to help you.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#6
can anyone sound off on what goes into adding animation capabilities to a full featured modeling app? anyone?
04/04/2002 (3:30 pm)
i contacted steve glanville, author of anim8or, and he seems like a very nice guy, but his response was mostly in the negative. soo, anyone have full featured animation tools they coded, maybe sitting in the closet, waiting to be published? no? shit...can anyone sound off on what goes into adding animation capabilities to a full featured modeling app? anyone?
#7
At the moment as you say, it has no animation features and no texturing ability (yet anyway) but it is simply a superb poly-modelling tool. I've used 3D Studio dos and Max for 8 years now, but I consider Wings (and Nendo, on which it is based) to be one of the finest modelling tools around for organic meshes.
As I mentioned in another thread, and as Jeff points put, this could be expanded to include animation and texturing tools to become a complete authoring solution for Torque.
I've been using Wings to create characters for the engine and using Max to set them up and export them, I'll be putting a tutorial up soon on the workflow...
04/04/2002 (3:56 pm)
I agree - I can't recommend wings3d highly enough.At the moment as you say, it has no animation features and no texturing ability (yet anyway) but it is simply a superb poly-modelling tool. I've used 3D Studio dos and Max for 8 years now, but I consider Wings (and Nendo, on which it is based) to be one of the finest modelling tools around for organic meshes.
As I mentioned in another thread, and as Jeff points put, this could be expanded to include animation and texturing tools to become a complete authoring solution for Torque.
I've been using Wings to create characters for the engine and using Max to set them up and export them, I'll be putting a tutorial up soon on the workflow...
#8
It shoud be able to import models from Wings no problem, and it's apparently a very intuitive package to animate in, and has included advanced features like dopesheets, 'rubber' bones and f-curves for a long time before many more expensive packages did.
I work with a guy at here at my day-job, he's an expert in Maya, Softimage and Lightwave with over a decade of experience in the industry, but he has always loved to animate in 'Master.
04/04/2002 (4:21 pm)
Actually, if you are looking for low cost animation software, try Animation Master it's only USD$299 and it's animation features are right up there with the Maya's Max's and XSI's of this world (a point which tends to make people's eyes start to twitch who paid $30,000 for their software)It shoud be able to import models from Wings no problem, and it's apparently a very intuitive package to animate in, and has included advanced features like dopesheets, 'rubber' bones and f-curves for a long time before many more expensive packages did.
I work with a guy at here at my day-job, he's an expert in Maya, Softimage and Lightwave with over a decade of experience in the industry, but he has always loved to animate in 'Master.
#9
Ouch. Not that I haven't downloaded bigger--just seems like an awful lot for a small modelling package. What the heck is "Erlang", anyway?
04/04/2002 (4:50 pm)
Errr... we have to download a 23MB file to get Wings3d to work? Ouch. Not that I haven't downloaded bigger--just seems like an awful lot for a small modelling package. What the heck is "Erlang", anyway?
#10
im glad hash was brought up, bc that means i failed to make myself clear in my original post, and didnt know it.
my game will be released with the same tools i used to make it. so i cant use tools that cost more than 5-10 bucks! in other words, all the tools i use will be open source, basically. i have heard great things about hash for years. but its waaay out of my budget, even at $300, because my customers cant afford it.
maybe gg could enter the extreme low cost market by charging customers if they want to use it for non torque apps, maybe twenty bucks like MS.
04/04/2002 (5:09 pm)
dunno, sounds like a hybrid word. MB, i look forward to seeing your workflow.im glad hash was brought up, bc that means i failed to make myself clear in my original post, and didnt know it.
my game will be released with the same tools i used to make it. so i cant use tools that cost more than 5-10 bucks! in other words, all the tools i use will be open source, basically. i have heard great things about hash for years. but its waaay out of my budget, even at $300, because my customers cant afford it.
maybe gg could enter the extreme low cost market by charging customers if they want to use it for non torque apps, maybe twenty bucks like MS.
#11
care to elaborate on the work going on for the editor? do you mean in-game? that would be the grail of editing. you could play a game, decide you wanted that wall a little higher, open the builder tool and edit away. not that its that useful to *design* in game, but im going to need to be able to import architecture in game. its not that its *necessary* to have an editor ingame, but its better than not doing it that way, as long as its stable.
04/04/2002 (5:16 pm)
btw Jeff,care to elaborate on the work going on for the editor? do you mean in-game? that would be the grail of editing. you could play a game, decide you wanted that wall a little higher, open the builder tool and edit away. not that its that useful to *design* in game, but im going to need to be able to import architecture in game. its not that its *necessary* to have an editor ingame, but its better than not doing it that way, as long as its stable.
Torque Owner Jeff Highsmith
the gimp license is a little harder to find. it uses the same docs as the Gnome project, whatever that is.
[edit:nevermind that was the damn manual 8P]
so wheres the gimp eula? oh well, im much more worried about wings anyway.