Why do you need Vista if there's XGL?

#1 I use XGL actually, and its simple the Coolest os ever. If the shaking windows are not enough the entire desktop rotates. I mean WOW!! I love it. Oh and on a vista note, I use it also, well I have it installed. .. um ya its installed. Vista will be the end of MS, I here they plan to force lic installs. In other words if you are going to install a program you need to verify the lic before it will install. Umm, I think MS.com is becoming MS.gov. Whats next a breathalyzering driver? You must run the breathalyzer test to run the application.

#2 Sean, they do this already with the retail version of windows. it will function for 30 days and if you do not activate it, it shuts down. same with the OEM version if i recall correctly. and i personally have no issues with this.

complaining about this is like complaining about stores forcing you to pay before you leave the store with their merchandise. really, it's quite silly.

#3 As soon as It can run Windows executables, I'll jump onto that bandwagon.
But right now I've spent $3000 on my Windows development platform in (windows-available-only) software over the years. And I'm not going to use emulation.
I've already got Ubuntu installed as a second OS for compiling linux/mac binaries/testing code/home theatre functions/Guest OS, and I don't think need the extra eye candy for things like that.

#4 Nobody needs those eyecandies, Mincetro; what's sad is M$ is taking ideas from Open Source world, replicates its functionalities (i.e. C# and .NET functionality against Java platforms), then markets and sells it :o

#5 How do you know microsoft is taking ideas from the open source world? And if they did, who cares. If it makes their OS better than the last, I'm all for it.

#6 Microsoft is selling sometimes "old" ideas as something new to the "normal" user out there. It's all about marketing. Many companies are doing it, and the "stupid/small man" out there doesn't notice it.

That's something I don't like but whatever. Just do YOUR thing and you're on the right track.

#7 @Bryan:
"How do you know microsoft is taking ideas from the open source world?"

Take a look at features offered by Open Source software 5 years ago, and take a closer look at .NET platform, upcoming Vista...


.NET platform is a somewhat of a Java platform replica plus features of the GCC complier platform (i.e. one compiler - different languages).
I can make a long list of features that KDE and GNOME had before Windows XP came, and we all have them in WinXP now...


etc...etc...

#8 I can make a long list of features BSD and Mac OS had long before Linux and Windows - So What?

#9 Yeah I bet Microsoft is taking ideas from open source, just like open source takes ideas from Microsoft.

The difference is, Microsoft implements those ideas better than open source; it is, after all, what they do.

Open source assumes that everyone's a computer guru. I don't want to have to recompile my kernel to use a firewall (BSD) or to print in certain scenarios (Linux). And X Windows leaves much to be desired in a GUI.

But that's just me. I'm not saying open source is bad; I use it all the time (BSD, for example, is on all of my servers except one. I use PHP, Apache, and mySQL regularly), but to the people who aren't technically savvy, Linux is a daunting thing.

Just my two cents.

- Sam

Edit - As for Microsoft making .Net to compete with Java... well, .Net is actually better than Java. I've used both extensively, and .Net with C# is exponentially more versitile than Java.

#10 @Mincetro:
"I can make a long list of features BSD and Mac OS had long before Linux and Windows - So What?"

Good for you.

@Sam:
In general, I didn't get your point... unless you just wanted to add two cents :)

"Open source assumes that everyone's a computer guru"
Not completly true. Look at the last openoffice, even linux distros are more friendly in installation then windows xp.

My major point was: you need very high end computer to run Vista comfortably with it's 3D accelerated Desktop and you may run XGL on low/med computer that supports 3D acceleration. it's just optimization. "by gamers for gamers" (c), you know.

"people who aren't technically savvy, Linux is a daunting thing"
Imagine, you have a computer without floppy drive (low end Dell line of desktops or notebooks), you see computer 2nd time in your life, you computer has big, 320Gb SATAII hard drive.
Now, get the last distro of Slackware, even a dummy will have it running as a desktop station in 1 hour accepting all by the default.

[rant = on]
I never forget: if you need to install windows xp on big(>120Gb) SATAII disks, it will ask the RAID driver only from floppy, and it's the only acceptable source, and only if you were fast enough to hit F6! #%#&! I dont have floppy drives since 2003... non-daunting? huh.
Tell me about the window xp firewall... you never know what was blocked or went through...
[rant = off]

#11 @Sam:

".Net is actually better than Java"

Hmmm...

Q: Why small apples are better then big ones?
A: More fit in a box!

:)

"I've used both extensively"
And you tell me that .NET is better then Java platform? ;)

".Net with C# is exponentially more versitile than Java."
What does make you feel that way?

#12 @Alexander:

I'll have to respectfully disagree with Linux distros being easier to install than Windows. I've installed my fair share, and if you're a newbie, you don't know what packages or partitions or anything like that are. In Windows you can just keep hitting Next.

Also, most novice computer users don't use RAID (hell, I don't even use RAID), nor do they have 320GB SATAII drives.

I wrote this application in .Net, but I originally started writing it in Java. I hit many snags on the way there. C# is just better... at least for me. I suppose it's all relative.

- Sam

#13 You can never say a Linux distro is easier to install than Windows - with XP x64 you Put in the disc, turn on your PC, press 'Next' and your done.

With Linux on my PC I need to put in the disc, install X, restart, Download the Linux Wireless drivers from the Lynksys website, Burn to a CD, Restart, Mount the CD in linux, recompile the kernel with the drivers, restart, download 5 drivers form the Nvidia site, recompile the kernel again, restart, install KDE/Gnome, restart, Find out that theres a major compatibility issue with the Nforce 3 motherboards, Restart, Turn off everything in the bios, restart, turn things on until it stops working, deleting teh USB 2.0 drivers, and find it didn't work, restart, delete the System Clock program, restart, have it crash after exactly 122 ms., restart, go into windows, go onto the Ubuntu support forums, find out its a totsly different problem to everything else, and then calling my brother in to fix it because I can't be screwed anymore. Then finally disabling Gigaraid because I only have one 120gb SATA hdd.

This is just me though, I can't speak for the gurus.

EDIT: @Sam I'm going to download Codeweaver now, It looks awesome.

#14 This is an excellent article to read:

"So, allow me to explain something that is fundamental to understanding Linux: The Linux community is not trying to provide the average Windows user with a replacement OS. The goal of Linux is not "Linux on every desktop".

Really. It honestly isn't. Yes, they're both an OS. Yes, they can both be used for the same things. But that makes Linux an alternative, not a replacement. It might seem an insignificant distinction, but it's actually a vitally important one.

Linux <=> Windows is like Motorbikes <=> Cars: Both are vehicles that get you from A to B via the roads. But they're different shapes, different sizes, have different controls, and they work in fundamentally different ways. They are not freely interchangeable. They have different uses and different strengths & weaknesses, and you should pick whichever is appropriate, not pick one and expect it to do everything that the other can do.

Somebody who drives a car might be sitting in a long queue of traffic someday and see a motorbike go sailing past him. He might envy the biker's ability to largely ignore something that is a crippling problem to a car. If that driver then said "I know all about cars, so I must know all about motorbikes!" then he'd be wrong. "

Another section in relation to length of install:
"Windows chauffeurs you around; Linux hands you the keys and puts you in the driver's seat. If you can't drive, that's your problem. And your fault. Plenty of people will help you learn if you ask. And if you make a suggestion that's the equivalent of fitting cruise control, you might get somewhere: This leaves the driver in control, but takes some of the effort out. But you'll get very short shrift if you try and convince anybody that what Linux really, really needs is a chauffeur."

#15 Guys, I'm respecting your opinions, but after many years of heavy development under Windows (since 3.1 version), I have a Windows desktop at home ONLY for games. I dont want to say which OS is better...
I never recompiled the kernel just to use USB drivers or a firewall... just because there is no need. I even was playing MP3 using KNOPPIX distro on my old notebook with a soundcard which wasnt recognized by WinXP. Just some facts.

@Sam: novice computer users don't need to use RAID, Win makes them to use, just Windows XP "thinks" that all the SATAII drives are RAID :P Even worse - it mounts it as USB devices (plug-n-play, baby)... I have that funny icon in my tray - "Safely remove SAMSUNG HD160JJ Drives (C:,D:,E:,F:)"... Remove my HDD? You know what? i hit by an accident that menu - i LOST about $10,000 worth of my business time. Sad.

By the way, Sam, you did an excellent job with Codeweaver. Very professional product, congratulations!

@Mincetro: with Win x64 you can forget about stability and drivers for hardware, atleast for another 24 month...
Did you know that Win64 has big issues with multiprocessor systems? It's just still choking on it... I still use Win 2000 SP4 for my necessity of Windows testing with 2+ CPUs. :)

#16

Quote:with Win x64 you can forget about stability and drivers for hardware, atleast for another 24 month...

I have to say, the only real problem I have with x64 is that there's no Legacy driver emulation for 16-bit or 32-bit drivers. Which kind of sucks because I can't use my Happauge WinTV card. But as long as the hardware's recent, it should work fine.
It's the only problem I can see for Vista, too (well, besides completely dropping 16-bit support... and Over-Security...)

Quote:I even was playing MP3 using KNOPPIX distro on my old notebook with a soundcard which wasnt recognized by WinXP.

My brother turned my old Toshiba Satellite k-something-something into a digital media stream jukebox. We've got a wireless card for it aswell, so we can play music from anywhere on my property. We use Ubuntu for it, though and also have it as a VNC client to check on the server.

#17 My personal opinion is that comparing or favoring one over the other is useless. I use both, and do contract work with both. Fedora is a great linux distro, the install is just as easy as windows, with many of the same features.

There are times win Windows XP bothers me, and there are times I am greatefull that certain features are there. Same goes for Fedora.

I think Vista will be a great product. The downfall of a windows os is its popularity. The more popular something is, the more likely it is going to be attacked (ex: Hackers).

XGL is sweet though. No matter what, you gotta love Linux (even if it's just for the community).

#18

Quote:
Alexander "taualex" Gaevoy wrote:

By the way, Sam, you did an excellent job with Codeweaver. Very professional product, congratulations!

Thanks Alexander :)

Hope it turns out very useful for you.

- Sam

#19 If you had money... and wanted to make money, you'll do exactly what Microsoft is doing... Improve on ideas (which may or may not neccesary your own)... The whole world is based on that. Vehicles, Games, Websites, Business models, technology. You even do it yourself.... "Your" great ideas at work, the way you want your body look is an idea in your head based on someone you saw at the gym... and dare I say it... even your sex life


Back to topic....You're gonna need Vista is you wanna play Halo 2 my friend....

Quote:
By the way, Sam, you did an excellent job with Codeweaver. Very professional product, congratulations

But he stole the idea from something called Visual Studio... :-P

#20

Quote:
You're gonna need Vista is you wanna play Halo 2 my friend....

Anybody needs Windows, in first place, for games :) That's the market, created by Microsoft. I have to admit those guys are smart - they wait till the idea is proved by the Open Source community, implement it their way, market, sell it, creating market for themselves (OS -> compiler -> drivers -> user product -> OS).

BTW, GG creates market for thenselves by giving away good game engine for cheap, creating a game portal at the same time... :) That's the way to go, I guess, if you want to make long stable profit... That's the hint, guys ;)