Worldcraft To Hammer
by Joseph A. Smugeresky · in Artist Corner · 04/02/2002 (6:53 am) · 30 replies
Valve has just released the latest edition of worldcraft. This edition is now called "Hammer". It includes some new features and fixes a bunch of the problems that have plagued wc in the past. You can get it at: http://www.valve-erc.com/
About the author
#2
But the EULA does seem to indicate that they reserve the right to come after you if you use it for non-Valve projects.
That also doesn't mean that your safe with 3.3
Often times EULA's have a "and we can revoke this right at any time for any reason" clause.
If you are a commercial developer, or planning on releasing commercial material, it's alwasy a good idea to have a lawyer around so he/she can explain these things and their ramifications to you ;)
04/02/2002 (12:05 pm)
Matt should add that he is not a lawyer, no should his advice be considered "legal" advice ;)But the EULA does seem to indicate that they reserve the right to come after you if you use it for non-Valve projects.
That also doesn't mean that your safe with 3.3
Often times EULA's have a "and we can revoke this right at any time for any reason" clause.
If you are a commercial developer, or planning on releasing commercial material, it's alwasy a good idea to have a lawyer around so he/she can explain these things and their ramifications to you ;)
#3
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Lynch [mailto:scott@valvesoftware.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 15:20
> To: 'Yacketta, Ronald'
> Subject: RE: Hammer Editor v3.4
>
>
> I'm not sure what you're referring to, we've never
> allowed Worldcraft to be used for other products.
> It's always been for Half-Life mods only.
>
04/02/2002 (12:22 pm)
When I engaged ther legal guy regarding WC 3.3 and prior this is what I turned up.> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Lynch [mailto:scott@valvesoftware.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 15:20
> To: 'Yacketta, Ronald'
> Subject: RE: Hammer Editor v3.4
>
>
> I'm not sure what you're referring to, we've never
> allowed Worldcraft to be used for other products.
> It's always been for Half-Life mods only.
>
#5
04/02/2002 (1:23 pm)
Tribes Extreme (which never saw retail) and Tribes 2 both did.
#7
Not that I'm saying we should be braking the EULA at all...just curious.
04/02/2002 (3:13 pm)
Just a thought...but there really isn't anyway for them to prove you used it to make stuff for Torque is there??? I mean after you import the (insert what ever you are importing) how could they tell???Not that I'm saying we should be braking the EULA at all...just curious.
#8
04/02/2002 (3:24 pm)
.map files have the Worldcraft and version number inside of it, but I don't know about .dif files.
#9
If it says we can't... we can't. Easy, huh?
04/02/2002 (4:03 pm)
Oh, and I will look into the wc 3.3 license when I get home. I've heard all kinds of statements about it, but if it doesn't say we can't use it for non valve stuff, then we can use it.If it says we can't... we can't. Easy, huh?
#10
The email I received from Scott (Valve Employee) clearly stated that all versions of WC are to be used to create maps for HL and or HL MODS.
-Ron
04/02/2002 (4:09 pm)
Matt,The email I received from Scott (Valve Employee) clearly stated that all versions of WC are to be used to create maps for HL and or HL MODS.
-Ron
#11
04/02/2002 (4:15 pm)
just switch to Quark: free,opensource,powerfull (as in the ability to create stuff for a lot of games), userfriendly,... want me to go on? ;)
#12
I reckon that my looking at any level (compiled) or map file (uncompiled) you can tell which program made it, just by the order of the code.
04/02/2002 (4:25 pm)
hmm...I reckon that my looking at any level (compiled) or map file (uncompiled) you can tell which program made it, just by the order of the code.
#13
The problem is that there was not a single place on the download site or in the software that states in legal terms.
"This software may only be used to create free content for half-life or other Valve games."
The only legal statement WorldCraft 3.3 had was that you the user could not hold Valve responsible if the software melted your PC into a steaming pile of goo.
They did not provide a legal document with the WorldCraft 3.3 software outlining your limits nor did they require you to click through one to download it.
04/02/2002 (4:56 pm)
Ronald...The problem is that there was not a single place on the download site or in the software that states in legal terms.
"This software may only be used to create free content for half-life or other Valve games."
The only legal statement WorldCraft 3.3 had was that you the user could not hold Valve responsible if the software melted your PC into a steaming pile of goo.
They did not provide a legal document with the WorldCraft 3.3 software outlining your limits nor did they require you to click through one to download it.
#14
from Mr. Lynch (of valve Software LLC)
> I'm not sure what you're referring to, we've never
> allowed Worldcraft to be used for other products.
> It's always been for Half-Life mods only.
>
04/02/2002 (5:13 pm)
For those with a tough time understaning, I will repost with a little boldness to bring out the clerity ;)from Mr. Lynch (of valve Software LLC)
> I'm not sure what you're referring to, we've never
> allowed Worldcraft to be used for other products.
> It's always been for Half-Life mods only.
>
#15
Not because I don't believe in it, mind you. Merely because I'm a data base programmer (propreitary no less, my last big project was a student record data base for a school), when it comes to game dev I'm clueless. So...... I'm trying to learn as much as possible without out anything to go on. I honestly want to muddle my way through with little or no help. Yes, 'tis the hard way to learn. But learning beaten into one's head lasts longer than learning by example LOL
04/02/2002 (5:26 pm)
Issues like this is why I spend most of my time using tools like Milk Shape and open source things I can gut and remake in my own twisted image...... But then I'm not using Torque.Not because I don't believe in it, mind you. Merely because I'm a data base programmer (propreitary no less, my last big project was a student record data base for a school), when it comes to game dev I'm clueless. So...... I'm trying to learn as much as possible without out anything to go on. I honestly want to muddle my way through with little or no help. Yes, 'tis the hard way to learn. But learning beaten into one's head lasts longer than learning by example LOL
#16
04/02/2002 (5:27 pm)
What the lawyer says now and what the actual legal truth about the release of Worldcraft 3.3 is are two different things.
#17
04/03/2002 (6:24 am)
Hence the "use Quark" statement proliferating thru these threads, Lab :)
#18
Their only declaration of rights is their copyright, which governs the distribution of the worldcraft software, but not the content generated by it.
This obviously changed with the newest release.
04/03/2002 (6:47 am)
I've been digging through my 3.3 install and nowhere can I find any end user license agreement at all... so whether or not Valve intended to allow other game developers to use WC to generate content, they implicitly DID, by not explicitly disallowing it.Their only declaration of rights is their copyright, which governs the distribution of the worldcraft software, but not the content generated by it.
This obviously changed with the newest release.
#19
"Worldcraft is a graphical level editor you can use to make your own maps for
Valve Software's Half-Life."
and then
"If you use
this software, you agree to these terms."
Oh well. The point is moot; I've always prefered QuArK for my noodlings anyway.
04/03/2002 (8:00 am)
IANAL. I don't know how click-through EULAs stand up in court. I know I don't want to risk it, though. With so many apparent ways to interpret things in law, I wonder if you twisted things enough you could show the following two phrases in the WC 3.3 installer to be a binding agreement:"Worldcraft is a graphical level editor you can use to make your own maps for
Valve Software's Half-Life."
and then
"If you use
this software, you agree to these terms."
Oh well. The point is moot; I've always prefered QuArK for my noodlings anyway.
#20
As Mark said. Unless it's explicitly spelled out (or extended with a implicit statement) it won't be able to be enforced.
Of course Valve will say you can't. They realized their mistake, and now they're just trying to cover themselves.
I'll give them a call Friday and get it directly from the horses mouth. I know... we've already got their statement. I just wanna talk to them :p
04/03/2002 (11:21 am)
Basic portions of EULAs might work in court (I don't know of any precident) but the points that stretch won't. For example, in mmorpgs. Most say "You can't sell any items from the games", has been stated to not hold up in court. Not by me, but by lawyers who play the games. It doesn't mean they won't win in court, it just means that their case cannot be based on the eula statement.As Mark said. Unless it's explicitly spelled out (or extended with a implicit statement) it won't be able to be enforced.
Of course Valve will say you can't. They realized their mistake, and now they're just trying to cover themselves.
I'll give them a call Friday and get it directly from the horses mouth. I know... we've already got their statement. I just wanna talk to them :p
Torque Owner Matt W
If you do, you will not be able to legally use it to create stuff with Torque.
The new EULA states that it can only be used on Valve related projects, while Worldcraft's doesn't.
This is one thing that I'm surprised hasn't been reported by the many sites talking about it's release. Especially since so many retail games are made using it, and not made by Valve.