How long ?
by Alberto · in General Discussion · 04/14/2006 (1:52 am) · 12 replies
Hello
I want to purchase a Torque licence
Well ,someone claim it is a powerful engine someone else it is outadated someone else it is full of bugs
I dont' care, that's life, the engine is cheap , I can try.
There is one point everybody agree (at least 99%) :
It is not a user friendly programming language
I dont' mean it is a negative point, generaly speaking
Driving a space rocket is probably harder than driving a car
However, assuming a decent back ground with C++ and other game engines as well as with 3d level builders and modelers ,
I can spend 5 - 6 hours a week,
How long does it take , from your experience,to get familiar with Torque
Please be so kind to avoid obvious answers, it depend on you...., your target...and so on
I mean to sit down in front of my computer without having an headache...
Let's say
a) 1 months
b) 6 monthes
c) 1 year ++
Thanks in advance
Alberto
I want to purchase a Torque licence
Well ,someone claim it is a powerful engine someone else it is outadated someone else it is full of bugs
I dont' care, that's life, the engine is cheap , I can try.
There is one point everybody agree (at least 99%) :
It is not a user friendly programming language
I dont' mean it is a negative point, generaly speaking
Driving a space rocket is probably harder than driving a car
However, assuming a decent back ground with C++ and other game engines as well as with 3d level builders and modelers ,
I can spend 5 - 6 hours a week,
How long does it take , from your experience,to get familiar with Torque
Please be so kind to avoid obvious answers, it depend on you...., your target...and so on
I mean to sit down in front of my computer without having an headache...
Let's say
a) 1 months
b) 6 monthes
c) 1 year ++
Thanks in advance
Alberto
#2
That takes into consideration reading and studying source code, tracking and fixing bugs, understanding Torque script at an advanced level, learning how to effeciently use and create terrain, models, interiors, sound as well as learning all the features that are available to you. This is the amount of time it takes to get a high level of understanding of the engine allowing you to use it very effeciently. This is also the time when large and full featured projects are viable.
b) 6 months
In this time you'll be familiar enough with the engine to start adding custom code, creating your game and leaning how to work through problems, limitations of the engine. This is when you will have enough knowledge to be able to make a reasonable start on a project.
a) 1 month
Enough time to play around with scripting and general experimentation of the engine and its features. You won't be creating a full featured application in this time but you'll know where to start and what to learn. You'll have a reasonable grasp of the layout of the engine and how things work.
There are several books and content packs available to aid / speed up your progress if you desire. Also there is this website containing resources and forums as well as a developer website with detailed information on a small area of the engine.
04/14/2006 (5:45 am)
C) 1 year ++That takes into consideration reading and studying source code, tracking and fixing bugs, understanding Torque script at an advanced level, learning how to effeciently use and create terrain, models, interiors, sound as well as learning all the features that are available to you. This is the amount of time it takes to get a high level of understanding of the engine allowing you to use it very effeciently. This is also the time when large and full featured projects are viable.
b) 6 months
In this time you'll be familiar enough with the engine to start adding custom code, creating your game and leaning how to work through problems, limitations of the engine. This is when you will have enough knowledge to be able to make a reasonable start on a project.
a) 1 month
Enough time to play around with scripting and general experimentation of the engine and its features. You won't be creating a full featured application in this time but you'll know where to start and what to learn. You'll have a reasonable grasp of the layout of the engine and how things work.
There are several books and content packs available to aid / speed up your progress if you desire. Also there is this website containing resources and forums as well as a developer website with detailed information on a small area of the engine.
#4
04/14/2006 (8:13 am)
I was making games after playing around for a few months. I had messed around with other engines quite a bit, however. I bought the Torque lisences because it had everything I had been trying to do in other eninges. I think you'll find Torque to be a more complete package, while other engines (especially if they're similarly priced) have just one strong point or emphasis... I also didn't find anything else with such a great community. You also can't beat their publication deal if you publish through GG -- who else lets you keep your rights when you publish? It's really an incredible community... The private forums are really developing well, and the new Torque book is AWESOME (Game Programmer's Guide to Torque). It will really speed up familiarization with the engine.
#6
The two biggest things that helped me with torque was: 1 - build a small FPS game with it first, seeing thats what the engine was first built to do, it also is the easiest type to complete in a few months. And 2 - fixing bugs, this is probably the best way to learning the insides of the engine because you spend a lot of time reading code while you search for the reason what you think should work, doesn't.
Anyway, thats what worked for me. Also, any issue you come up with and can't figure out for yourself do a search in the private forums. Most times someone else had the same issue and if the thread doesn't have the answer, it can at least point you in the right direction.
04/14/2006 (9:08 am)
I would say about 6 months to get the hang of the engine and figure out what it can do, and about 1 year to get to the point where you will be comfortable making major modifications (not just adding resources or minor tweaks) to make it do things it currently does not do out of the box.The two biggest things that helped me with torque was: 1 - build a small FPS game with it first, seeing thats what the engine was first built to do, it also is the easiest type to complete in a few months. And 2 - fixing bugs, this is probably the best way to learning the insides of the engine because you spend a lot of time reading code while you search for the reason what you think should work, doesn't.
Anyway, thats what worked for me. Also, any issue you come up with and can't figure out for yourself do a search in the private forums. Most times someone else had the same issue and if the thread doesn't have the answer, it can at least point you in the right direction.
#7
"tracking and fixing bugs..."
"fixing bugs, this is probably the best way to learning ...."
I am somewhat scared
What do you mean for bugs?
I dont' care if some advanced feature do not work properly but I do hope I can rely on the basic functions :)
04/14/2006 (11:50 am)
Thanks again, but well.."tracking and fixing bugs..."
"fixing bugs, this is probably the best way to learning ...."
I am somewhat scared
What do you mean for bugs?
I dont' care if some advanced feature do not work properly but I do hope I can rely on the basic functions :)
#8
04/14/2006 (4:08 pm)
I haven't found any major bugs in the engine itself -- but I've created plenty of bugs in my own code. Like most programmers, I learn more from debugging my own code than from anything else. Until you're understanding of the engine is complete, you'll surely make some mistakes in your own scripts. Furthermore, even if you understand it all you're a better man than I if you can code without creating any bugs. :)
#9
Poorly written code, hacked in code, broken code, code that does not work and code that breaks other code.
To be honest with you there's plenty of bugs, that's not a negative on the engine cos all engines have bugs.
Example of bugs:
Alt Tabbing will crash the engine
Gui text boxes don't work properly
Water can't be placed in level
Dedicated server crashes
Dedicated server performance is choppy one you fix the crash
Audio layer can be unuseable pending on audio hardware
These are only trivial bugs, most of which have probably been fixed. They still slow down progress however if you don't want to wait for an official fix.
Not trying to bag the engine, just being honest with you.
04/14/2006 (8:37 pm)
Quote:
What do you mean for bugs?
Poorly written code, hacked in code, broken code, code that does not work and code that breaks other code.
To be honest with you there's plenty of bugs, that's not a negative on the engine cos all engines have bugs.
Example of bugs:
Alt Tabbing will crash the engine
Gui text boxes don't work properly
Water can't be placed in level
Dedicated server crashes
Dedicated server performance is choppy one you fix the crash
Audio layer can be unuseable pending on audio hardware
These are only trivial bugs, most of which have probably been fixed. They still slow down progress however if you don't want to wait for an official fix.
Not trying to bag the engine, just being honest with you.
#10
There is a simple way to find out for yourself. Download the TGE 1.4 Demo. It will allow you to script. Mess with it. Follow some tutorials. If you like it, buy it. You will get a feel for if there are any major bugs that way without gambling. I think you'll like the results. A good tutorial you can use with the demo is at www.codesampler.com/torque.htm. Of course, you'll need a lisence before you can sell or distribute anything you do with the demo...
04/15/2006 (4:21 am)
I've not experienced the bugs that Tim has... The Alt-Tab issue could have to do with his system (video drivers, etc) more than torque itself -- it's always worked fine for me and those who test my games. Dedicated servers have always worked well for me. I don't know if we're using different versions or what, but 1.4 HEAD has worked great for me.There is a simple way to find out for yourself. Download the TGE 1.4 Demo. It will allow you to script. Mess with it. Follow some tutorials. If you like it, buy it. You will get a feel for if there are any major bugs that way without gambling. I think you'll like the results. A good tutorial you can use with the demo is at www.codesampler.com/torque.htm. Of course, you'll need a lisence before you can sell or distribute anything you do with the demo...
#11
The Alt-Tab issue is a confirmed bug that has been fixed two times, one in the forums and one (probably less hacky) in the resources. These fixes are not in stock TGE 1.4 though, so I'm pretty suprised you haven't noticed it before. So Tim is correct.
They were also broken in TGE 1.4 stock. So either you're using 1.3, or they fixed these in HEAD 1.4.
But I have never had any performance issues with them after applying the fix (that is available on the forums). Dedicated servers were always very fast and performant for me.
04/15/2006 (5:36 am)
Quote:
The Alt-Tab issue could have to do with his system (video drivers, etc) more than torque itself -- it's always worked fine for me and those who test my games.
The Alt-Tab issue is a confirmed bug that has been fixed two times, one in the forums and one (probably less hacky) in the resources. These fixes are not in stock TGE 1.4 though, so I'm pretty suprised you haven't noticed it before. So Tim is correct.
Quote:
Dedicated servers have always worked well for me.
They were also broken in TGE 1.4 stock. So either you're using 1.3, or they fixed these in HEAD 1.4.
But I have never had any performance issues with them after applying the fix (that is available on the forums). Dedicated servers were always very fast and performant for me.
#12
04/15/2006 (8:08 am)
Stefan is correct on both counts Jason, those two errors exist in a virgin 1.4 install. I'm not saying there aren't fixes available, of course these any many other problems with Torque have been fixed in the project we're doing. They are trivial bugs, but time consuming nonetheless. I'm not tyring to bad mouth the Torque engine, just offer an honest view of what negative things to expect when purchasing Torque. Too many 'fanboys' (not making any implication to anyone here) don't seem to portray an accurate overview of the engine. The bugs I mentioned weren't meant to be taken literally, just to serve as an example of some of the behaviourable problems of the engine. 
Torque Owner Martin de Richelieu
I would not agree that TorqueScript isn't user friendly. It's not all documented, but mostly I found the answers here on the board or just looked in the source.
So I would give it a A in the poll.