One big way to prove yourself as a programmer in the GG world...
by Ken Finney · in General Discussion · 03/25/2002 (6:02 pm) · 40 replies
I've seen a number of programmers advertise that they were looking for team members, or looking to join a project, and so on.
Elsewhere in the forums we've seen Jeff Tunnell opine, more than once, about how great it would be for someone to create a specific tool, or modify an existing Open Source tool for use specifically with Torque and its game needs.
Some examples:
1) Low-poly 3D modelling tool that creates animations, does texture coordinates and supports Alpha channels (Think Milkshape plus a few extra goodies).
2) UnrealEd to .map (or dif) converter.
If you are unattached (in a project sense), and looking for a way to prove yourself in the GG community, creating either one of the two above tools (or enhancing an existing GPL'd version of one) would propel you to almost god-like stature, I'd wager ... I'm fairly certain you would at least attain Associate status for the first one.
Right. There you go. Now don't trample each other racing for the IDE ... :-)
Elsewhere in the forums we've seen Jeff Tunnell opine, more than once, about how great it would be for someone to create a specific tool, or modify an existing Open Source tool for use specifically with Torque and its game needs.
Some examples:
1) Low-poly 3D modelling tool that creates animations, does texture coordinates and supports Alpha channels (Think Milkshape plus a few extra goodies).
2) UnrealEd to .map (or dif) converter.
If you are unattached (in a project sense), and looking for a way to prove yourself in the GG community, creating either one of the two above tools (or enhancing an existing GPL'd version of one) would propel you to almost god-like stature, I'd wager ... I'm fairly certain you would at least attain Associate status for the first one.
Right. There you go. Now don't trample each other racing for the IDE ... :-)
About the author
#2
my 2 cents.
03/25/2002 (11:43 pm)
For the first point, why not coding some plugin for Milkshape. Milkshape is very cheap and quite good to make 3D low-poly model.my 2 cents.
#3
03/26/2002 (2:51 am)
Frank, there is a plugin for Milkshape, but MS has issues that need resolving, like Alpha channel support, to name one. No one here can do anything about them, since the source isn't available. Hence the Open Source criterion that Jeff T. advocates.
#4
BTW, is there no actual open source 3D modeler available ?
03/26/2002 (2:59 am)
You make a point here ;)BTW, is there no actual open source 3D modeler available ?
#6
Aztec is another. Aztec actually looks to be a lot like MS, with a few more features, but not a bug-free, yet.
There is another that starts with a 'K' whose name escapes me at the moment.
03/26/2002 (7:28 am)
OpenFX is one. When I looked at it last spring, it was quite buggy, and the source code was fairly opaque in places. Aztec is another. Aztec actually looks to be a lot like MS, with a few more features, but not a bug-free, yet.
There is another that starts with a 'K' whose name escapes me at the moment.
#7
Edit: The download is only approx. 500kb, it supports alpha channels, animation, it's free, ... heck, I think I like it :-)
Edit again: It's only for Windows,though,... but it uses OpenGL, so IF he makes it open source (he says something about that in the forums, he wants to wait 'til version 1.0), it shouldnt be too hard to convert...
03/26/2002 (7:53 am)
There is also Wings3D www.wings3d.com/ (no animations or texturing yet), or Anim8tor, which supports animations and seems to be OpenSource www.anim8or.com. Haven't tried any of those yet, but Anim8tor looks quite promising... source is not available (yet?), though, but you can export to DTS or even export the model as C code ... I think I will check that out tonight...Edit: The download is only approx. 500kb, it supports alpha channels, animation, it's free, ... heck, I think I like it :-)
Edit again: It's only for Windows,though,... but it uses OpenGL, so IF he makes it open source (he says something about that in the forums, he wants to wait 'til version 1.0), it shouldnt be too hard to convert...
#8
The criteria for a modeller for torque seem to be:
1) good functionality (need more detail here)
2) low cost
3) can write plugins/exporters for torque
4) supported by a team that's willing to listen and react to suggestions from the torque community
5) nice if cross platform
6) nice if open source (not necessary though if the other criteria are met)
03/26/2002 (10:48 am)
One of these days I'm look at www.ac3d.org. Its a shareware modeller but it runs on windows and linux (not on mac unfortunately). If I like it I'll probably write a torque exporter for it. Has anyone here used it?The criteria for a modeller for torque seem to be:
1) good functionality (need more detail here)
2) low cost
3) can write plugins/exporters for torque
4) supported by a team that's willing to listen and react to suggestions from the torque community
5) nice if cross platform
6) nice if open source (not necessary though if the other criteria are met)
#9
with a robust linux port available shouldnt be too hard to port to windows
the source code is accessable and is gnu
03/26/2002 (10:51 am)
what about Moonlight3d?with a robust linux port available shouldnt be too hard to port to windows
the source code is accessable and is gnu
#10
It looks like they closed the source. Moonlight3d stopped being GPL after 0.5.3 (they are currently up to 0.92). So we'd have to fork it at 0.5.3 and continue the work ourselves.
03/26/2002 (11:02 am)
Badguy:It looks like they closed the source. Moonlight3d stopped being GPL after 0.5.3 (they are currently up to 0.92). So we'd have to fork it at 0.5.3 and continue the work ourselves.
#11
well I still think its a better starting point than most others ..
grr yes your right that is old ..
now all the software it requires is out of date
and I have to setup versions of all its dependencies of an older version :(
03/26/2002 (11:44 am)
yes I guess I didnt mention that .. :)well I still think its a better starting point than most others ..
grr yes your right that is old ..
now all the software it requires is out of date
and I have to setup versions of all its dependencies of an older version :(
#12
But another app to add to the open source list is K-3D.
Personally, I think Milkshape is still the way to go for cheap game-oriented 3D, though it needs that alpha channel support and built-in UV mappings.
03/26/2002 (12:07 pm)
Well I think my opinions on writing a good free 3D tool are known ;)But another app to add to the open source list is K-3D.
Personally, I think Milkshape is still the way to go for cheap game-oriented 3D, though it needs that alpha channel support and built-in UV mappings.
#13
Anyways, the K-3D uses the GTK toolkit. I am not sure if that would work in windows without some major changes. however, it does a MAX reader, and support for UV mapping (at least as far as I can tell from it's feature list here)
03/26/2002 (1:17 pm)
I think one of the key things is that it works in windows. I think that it's cross-platform is cool (I personally prefer it that way), but most artists do use windows.Anyways, the K-3D uses the GTK toolkit. I am not sure if that would work in windows without some major changes. however, it does a MAX reader, and support for UV mapping (at least as far as I can tell from it's feature list here)
#14
Guess I will go ahead and try it... :-)
03/26/2002 (1:20 pm)
Oh, there is a GTK port for windows, I think... at least I have GTK radiant running on my WIN2K machine... so it shouldn't be a problem... and wow, does k-3d sound cool!Guess I will go ahead and try it... :-)
#15
It might also be the only open source 3D apps being spearheaded by someone who actually worked for a commercial 3D app developer - I don't count Open F/X because I think the author was solely responsible for that anyway.
03/26/2002 (2:47 pm)
K-3D works fine on Windows. Well, by fine I mean it runs, and any bugs are probably not due to the GTK code *grin*It might also be the only open source 3D apps being spearheaded by someone who actually worked for a commercial 3D app developer - I don't count Open F/X because I think the author was solely responsible for that anyway.
#16
03/26/2002 (4:53 pm)
Ok, then I am uninformed about gtk on windows. I apologize. Did you have to download anything separately from K-3D to get it working in windows?
#17
Milkshape supports alpha channels. I've used alphas in milkshape hundreds of times, working on VTMR. Now the 3d view does not show alpha channels (except as black) but then again milkshape is not a rendering program. Besides alpha channels are controlled in the texture file, it has nothing to do with milkshape, seeing as milkshape does not save the texture to the model file, only the texture name an it UVmap.
Get some facts right.
How could ms3d be used in quake/Unreel/VTMR/loads of other games, with out alpha channel support????
/me shakes head and walks away
03/26/2002 (5:03 pm)
WHAT THE F**K!!!!!!!!Milkshape supports alpha channels. I've used alphas in milkshape hundreds of times, working on VTMR. Now the 3d view does not show alpha channels (except as black) but then again milkshape is not a rendering program. Besides alpha channels are controlled in the texture file, it has nothing to do with milkshape, seeing as milkshape does not save the texture to the model file, only the texture name an it UVmap.
Get some facts right.
How could ms3d be used in quake/Unreel/VTMR/loads of other games, with out alpha channel support????
/me shakes head and walks away
#18
When I try to create a material with a .png file with alpha channel, I get an "Error downloading texture" from Milkshape. When I remove the alpha, the error goes away ...
03/26/2002 (5:24 pm)
Ian, what file format are you using with the Alpha Channel support in it ?When I try to create a material with a .png file with alpha channel, I get an "Error downloading texture" from Milkshape. When I remove the alpha, the error goes away ...
#19
Any project moving forward that ISN'T multi-platform wouldn't be a waste of effort, but it wouldn't be helpful in moving forward the multi-platform efforts that are a core of TGE.
And saying any comments like "most artists use PCs anyway" is just plain silly. People use whatever platform they are working on. I know a lot of video/graphics people wholly on Macs.
If there's a mostly-Mac-based team, they'll want Mac-based tools. Same goes for linux.
So, multi-platform should be a high-criteria. IMHO.
d
03/26/2002 (6:36 pm)
Just to throw in my 2c:Any project moving forward that ISN'T multi-platform wouldn't be a waste of effort, but it wouldn't be helpful in moving forward the multi-platform efforts that are a core of TGE.
And saying any comments like "most artists use PCs anyway" is just plain silly. People use whatever platform they are working on. I know a lot of video/graphics people wholly on Macs.
If there's a mostly-Mac-based team, they'll want Mac-based tools. Same goes for linux.
So, multi-platform should be a high-criteria. IMHO.
d
#20
Oh and the obj one, and the 3ds one, once or twice, but that plugin is a bit wacked out.
Milkshape should not save the texture to teh model, so the alpha channel makes no difference. Milkshape does not read the alpha channel, Torque does. Torque makes the alpha work.
03/26/2002 (6:45 pm)
I used the Vampire the masquarade format, and the ms3d format.Oh and the obj one, and the 3ds one, once or twice, but that plugin is a bit wacked out.
Milkshape should not save the texture to teh model, so the alpha channel makes no difference. Milkshape does not read the alpha channel, Torque does. Torque makes the alpha work.
Torque Owner nohbdy
Oh, is that all? :)
-noh