Game story on Boston Legal
by Weston Tracy · in General Discussion · 03/31/2006 (6:19 am) · 18 replies
Not sure if anyone saw this one. Thought it would spark some good discussion.
Basically the story follows a single mother who's son died while playing an addictive, violent video game.
There's a hearing, experts are brought in to testify to the addictiveness of the game. Finally the addictiveness of the game is compared with crystal meth, and the case was dropped.
Did anyone catch this?
Basically the story follows a single mother who's son died while playing an addictive, violent video game.
There's a hearing, experts are brought in to testify to the addictiveness of the game. Finally the addictiveness of the game is compared with crystal meth, and the case was dropped.
Did anyone catch this?
About the author
Game artist. Lover of pixels. Co-Owner and Artist for www.blackjacketgames.com
#3
edit: a mere 50 hours, not five days.
03/31/2006 (9:19 am)
Like that guy in Korea who allegedly died because he played a video game for like five days straight ?edit: a mere 50 hours, not five days.
#4
03/31/2006 (9:51 am)
Well, I guess that means you have to eat properly and rest a little more while playing. :D 
#5
03/31/2006 (10:34 am)
If not for that, they would have died for some other stupid reason sooner or later. I have no sympathy for idiots. 
#6
03/31/2006 (11:57 am)
The korean guy who played StarCraft for 50 hours straight had something wrong with his heart, if I recall correctly. Anyway, not eating/sleeping and drinking that coffein crap for 50 hours can't be very healthy.
#7
The main case by the plaintiff was that the game produced the same dopamine levels as a shot of amphetamine. And the company had hired a scientist to engineer it to be that addictive.
Playing WoW last summer made this seem a lot less like fiction.
03/31/2006 (6:13 pm)
On the show the boy who died had been playing for an unknown amount of time, but he hadn't slept, or had anything to eat or drink for 72 hours.The main case by the plaintiff was that the game produced the same dopamine levels as a shot of amphetamine. And the company had hired a scientist to engineer it to be that addictive.
Playing WoW last summer made this seem a lot less like fiction.
#8
Seriously, You would have to be one sad son-of-a-bitch to play a game for 50 hours straight for no money.
04/01/2006 (12:50 am)
Thats why games are only 8 hours long these days ;)Seriously, You would have to be one sad son-of-a-bitch to play a game for 50 hours straight for no money.
#9
04/01/2006 (3:13 am)
The only reason some people believe that games can be dangerous is because they are those same people who are already 'scared' of computers and technology.
#10
04/01/2006 (4:43 am)
So a couple people die billion who played video games at one time or another in the last 25 years. This is shock-value and a non-issue. If they are comparing video games to drugs, then video games is one of the drugs with the weakest effects.
#11
We're all trying to make games that are 'fun'. As our industry gets better and better at making them 'fun', have we begun to venture past 'fun' toward 'too fun'? Where does the refinement of our craft lead? What's the ultimate goal? The ultra successful games, like WoW, or the Sims, are becoming powerful substitutes for real life for thousands. So is this our goal, to have everyone playing our games all the time?
If our industry isn't creating games that end lives, don't we have to at least acknowledge that it's creating games that replace lives?
04/01/2006 (6:19 am)
Obviously the idea of video games leading to death is extreme. What interested me was the focus on the steadily increasing potency of games.We're all trying to make games that are 'fun'. As our industry gets better and better at making them 'fun', have we begun to venture past 'fun' toward 'too fun'? Where does the refinement of our craft lead? What's the ultimate goal? The ultra successful games, like WoW, or the Sims, are becoming powerful substitutes for real life for thousands. So is this our goal, to have everyone playing our games all the time?
If our industry isn't creating games that end lives, don't we have to at least acknowledge that it's creating games that replace lives?
#12
Yep... If 'everyone' has no job or friends or family, anyway!
We don't do anything to produce these effects, as each player is individually different. Some have self-control and can put off games for a few hours to finish homework or walk their dog, or socialise, but others just sort of... fuse and only leave their game for one meal a day.
Or as Morpheus would say (The Matrix character, not the UT level) "We can only make you the game. Your the one that has to play through it"
04/01/2006 (2:14 pm)
"So is this our goal, to have everyone playing our games all the time?"Yep... If 'everyone' has no job or friends or family, anyway!
We don't do anything to produce these effects, as each player is individually different. Some have self-control and can put off games for a few hours to finish homework or walk their dog, or socialise, but others just sort of... fuse and only leave their game for one meal a day.
Or as Morpheus would say (The Matrix character, not the UT level) "We can only make you the game. Your the one that has to play through it"
#13
Then again, the very fact that perfect game is never-really-reachable goal kind of makes the such ponderings moot.
I think it's part of a much larger and also much more complex discussion- is an entertainment oriented civilization eventually doomed, is domination of entertainment just a phase, or does entertainment actually adds to our survival chances. Tough call.
From one hand, currently civilization as a whole could seem goal-less, mindless and generally just trying to stimulate as many receptors as possible. Then again, were we any better when we just tried to survive next dino lunch, famine, plague, flood? The goals just were more clear- to live another day.
Today, at least in the west, people generally dont really have to fear for survival in its primal sense. So we are prone to existential questions like "what the hell are we doing here?"
Since the closest thing to answer is either "42" or "no one really knows, but why dont we enjoy most of the time here?" its no wonder we seek thrills for the most of the time.
04/01/2006 (2:26 pm)
Well, THAT actually is an interesting question I have sometimes pondered upon. The ideal game would be the one you don't want to turn off and keep playing. Since we all should try to create that "perfect game", are we in effect working against the very survival of mankind in some weird, subtle way?Then again, the very fact that perfect game is never-really-reachable goal kind of makes the such ponderings moot.
I think it's part of a much larger and also much more complex discussion- is an entertainment oriented civilization eventually doomed, is domination of entertainment just a phase, or does entertainment actually adds to our survival chances. Tough call.
From one hand, currently civilization as a whole could seem goal-less, mindless and generally just trying to stimulate as many receptors as possible. Then again, were we any better when we just tried to survive next dino lunch, famine, plague, flood? The goals just were more clear- to live another day.
Today, at least in the west, people generally dont really have to fear for survival in its primal sense. So we are prone to existential questions like "what the hell are we doing here?"
Since the closest thing to answer is either "42" or "no one really knows, but why dont we enjoy most of the time here?" its no wonder we seek thrills for the most of the time.
#14
BUT stupidity is not a build in feature in human being (or is it ?) playing a computer game till you drop dead is ... crazy, I think that the guy must have been already ready for the nuts house. I think the one to blame are the direct familly. For one the kid must have had trouble already and be ready for a psy visit, and a mother does not realise her kid did not eat, drink or sleep for such a long time ? Dang and they blame the game.
I think that natural selection has a role to play here.
04/01/2006 (3:37 pm)
Sorry for the guy that died and the familly.BUT stupidity is not a build in feature in human being (or is it ?) playing a computer game till you drop dead is ... crazy, I think that the guy must have been already ready for the nuts house. I think the one to blame are the direct familly. For one the kid must have had trouble already and be ready for a psy visit, and a mother does not realise her kid did not eat, drink or sleep for such a long time ? Dang and they blame the game.
I think that natural selection has a role to play here.
#15
There is a larger question at hand that Nauris kind of touched upon and I think it deals with balance. In a society where we mostly don't have to worry about the primal issues of basic survival, we have the opportunity to fill that time with whatever we want. In western culture, the trend is that we fill it with things that make us happy. The range of possibilities here is really limitless. Some people spend time with their families. Some people use heroin. Some people play video games.
But because we have this free time, we now have to deal with questions that we didn't have to deal with when we were running from dinosaurs, as Nauris put it. We have to deal with issues of leading a balanced life. Sure, you can keep pumping yourself with a good thing for as long as you want, but if you do it at the cost of not doing other things that you need, you'll burn out. In that respect, games are no different than any kind of designer drug. They have lethal potential, albiet in a different way.
The flip side of the coin is that maybe games (and the whatever-feels-good notion on a whole) are the next dinosaurs. Things like disease and famine, those are very clear threats. It's kind of ironic to think that we conquer those kinds of threats just to engineer our own.
04/02/2006 (10:29 am)
First things first, good topic Weston. :)There is a larger question at hand that Nauris kind of touched upon and I think it deals with balance. In a society where we mostly don't have to worry about the primal issues of basic survival, we have the opportunity to fill that time with whatever we want. In western culture, the trend is that we fill it with things that make us happy. The range of possibilities here is really limitless. Some people spend time with their families. Some people use heroin. Some people play video games.
But because we have this free time, we now have to deal with questions that we didn't have to deal with when we were running from dinosaurs, as Nauris put it. We have to deal with issues of leading a balanced life. Sure, you can keep pumping yourself with a good thing for as long as you want, but if you do it at the cost of not doing other things that you need, you'll burn out. In that respect, games are no different than any kind of designer drug. They have lethal potential, albiet in a different way.
The flip side of the coin is that maybe games (and the whatever-feels-good notion on a whole) are the next dinosaurs. Things like disease and famine, those are very clear threats. It's kind of ironic to think that we conquer those kinds of threats just to engineer our own.
#16
Great points, you've taken it to the next level.
I guess each of us has to examine what we imagine our ideal world would look like, then try to gauge whether we're working towards that vision, or away from it.
It's exciting to think about what directions our industry will take when we have the tools, and desire, to grow out of our adolescence. When we start building interactivity that rivals the motion picture industry in it's ability to create powerful, thought provoking contributions.
I guess I long for those days, when making software that's fun and addictive isn't the primary goal.
04/03/2006 (12:36 pm)
@Nauris,Adam,Great points, you've taken it to the next level.
I guess each of us has to examine what we imagine our ideal world would look like, then try to gauge whether we're working towards that vision, or away from it.
It's exciting to think about what directions our industry will take when we have the tools, and desire, to grow out of our adolescence. When we start building interactivity that rivals the motion picture industry in it's ability to create powerful, thought provoking contributions.
I guess I long for those days, when making software that's fun and addictive isn't the primary goal.
#17
Anyone who "replicates" a violent act from a Game wouldn't just say "Hey, thats a good Idea, I'll pencil it in for sunday afternoon", They usually have Schitzophrenia, Dementia, or a similar mental disease. Gamers who are completely addicted to the virtual world, ignoring their own physical impulses also suffer from similar conditions. The families of the "victims" are just prying on the Games as an excuse not to blame themselves for outcasting the child or not taking them for proper treatment.
Politicians started with the well-know Colombine killings, where two student (who were actually pretty awesome kids) cracked it, stole their parents guns and went on a spree at Colombine high school where they were educated. At first it was blamed on KMFDM (an awesome band, their favorite one), But no-one knew who they were as they were a small Industrial group from the 80's. They then blamed Marylin Manson, until people found out the kids hated him. Then they turned to the one factor that hadn't been touched - Games. "Of course, It must be the one thing venting the anger thats building it up!" politicians said. John Carmack said "Who the fuck would let their 15-year-old kids take their .50 calibre to school?". And thus a revolution of Idiots-sueing-Developers began.
The name Jack Thompson comes to mind
04/03/2006 (11:31 pm)
I think people who sue/critisize the gaming industry are really just in it for an alterior motive - money.Anyone who "replicates" a violent act from a Game wouldn't just say "Hey, thats a good Idea, I'll pencil it in for sunday afternoon", They usually have Schitzophrenia, Dementia, or a similar mental disease. Gamers who are completely addicted to the virtual world, ignoring their own physical impulses also suffer from similar conditions. The families of the "victims" are just prying on the Games as an excuse not to blame themselves for outcasting the child or not taking them for proper treatment.
Politicians started with the well-know Colombine killings, where two student (who were actually pretty awesome kids) cracked it, stole their parents guns and went on a spree at Colombine high school where they were educated. At first it was blamed on KMFDM (an awesome band, their favorite one), But no-one knew who they were as they were a small Industrial group from the 80's. They then blamed Marylin Manson, until people found out the kids hated him. Then they turned to the one factor that hadn't been touched - Games. "Of course, It must be the one thing venting the anger thats building it up!" politicians said. John Carmack said "Who the fuck would let their 15-year-old kids take their .50 calibre to school?". And thus a revolution of Idiots-sueing-Developers began.
The name Jack Thompson comes to mind
#18
These people who go off the deep end, you will find, are not living balanced lives. The colombine kids parents never went in their rooms to "respect their privacy" - so they made pipe bombs there, they plotted, and they killed. They weren't raised properly. The parents, the teachers, the adults in their lives had plenty of warning signs. But were so self absorbed that they didn't see them or blew it off cause they didn't want to deal with it. I have a friend who's 17 year old is wiggin out - and he won't call him to the carpet on it because he wants to be the kids buddy. Sorry, but your his father - act like it. The guy playing 50 hours had a medical condition - he was responsible for his health - his fault, not the game. Also his friends and family ought to have wondered where he was. Didn't they care for him? Just like my Brother in Law who buys my Nephew anything he flippin wants just to keep him out of his hair. So the kid sits in his room, with unsupervised internet access, and plays games and surfs the net. All so his daddy can watch sports in peace. So my nephew is raised on internet and shoot um up games instead of his lazy parents.
We all know when something is bothering a friend, a family member, a co-worker, etc. If we choose not to care and talk with them then we shouldn't be surprised if they go balistic. We are responsible for not caring - we are an indirect link in the tragic chain of events that the individual is ultimately responsible for.
As game designers we are entertainers. Just like movie makers and musicians, artists, etc. We are the high tech court jesters dancing on the screen for attention. We are not the downfall of society. Society will collapse on it's own - due to the collapse of family values. It's happened to every society in history. Romans, Egyptians, Aztecs, Incas, Chinese, Russian, French, and on and on.
It's like the Beatles "Helter-Skelter" song was not to blame for Manson's murders. Charlie was responsible. He did and his followers did it. The columbine kids were responsible - and indirectly the parents and teachers.
I'm tired of scape-goat-ism in Western culture.
04/04/2006 (12:08 pm)
I've been playing games, of all types, since pong. So if anyone should be dead with an Atari (Sega whatever) cartridge sticking out their arm or going on a rampage it should be me right? Wrong, I have self control. I was raised by a parent (my Mom) who was engaged in my everyday life, who sat and watched me play pitfall 3 and would make me get off the game after a few hours. She also made me go out and play with my friends. She taught me how to live a balanced life. So today, as a husband and a father, I go to work, I have dinner with my family, I talk to my 3 year old about his day, I play games with him, I play with my 2 year old, I watch every stinkin PBS show they like, I tuck them in, spend time with my wife, game design, and repeat. These people who go off the deep end, you will find, are not living balanced lives. The colombine kids parents never went in their rooms to "respect their privacy" - so they made pipe bombs there, they plotted, and they killed. They weren't raised properly. The parents, the teachers, the adults in their lives had plenty of warning signs. But were so self absorbed that they didn't see them or blew it off cause they didn't want to deal with it. I have a friend who's 17 year old is wiggin out - and he won't call him to the carpet on it because he wants to be the kids buddy. Sorry, but your his father - act like it. The guy playing 50 hours had a medical condition - he was responsible for his health - his fault, not the game. Also his friends and family ought to have wondered where he was. Didn't they care for him? Just like my Brother in Law who buys my Nephew anything he flippin wants just to keep him out of his hair. So the kid sits in his room, with unsupervised internet access, and plays games and surfs the net. All so his daddy can watch sports in peace. So my nephew is raised on internet and shoot um up games instead of his lazy parents.
We all know when something is bothering a friend, a family member, a co-worker, etc. If we choose not to care and talk with them then we shouldn't be surprised if they go balistic. We are responsible for not caring - we are an indirect link in the tragic chain of events that the individual is ultimately responsible for.
As game designers we are entertainers. Just like movie makers and musicians, artists, etc. We are the high tech court jesters dancing on the screen for attention. We are not the downfall of society. Society will collapse on it's own - due to the collapse of family values. It's happened to every society in history. Romans, Egyptians, Aztecs, Incas, Chinese, Russian, French, and on and on.
It's like the Beatles "Helter-Skelter" song was not to blame for Manson's murders. Charlie was responsible. He did and his followers did it. The columbine kids were responsible - and indirectly the parents and teachers.
I'm tired of scape-goat-ism in Western culture.
Torque Owner Nauris Krauze
Even briefly contemplating on the weirdness of the case exhausts me.